Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
3 Days Ago   #1
Senior Member
Saxplayer1004's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 173
needing some upgrade advice and think I hit paralysis by analysis!

Like the title says, I think I got stuck by my own research. Long time Pentax owner starting with a K10, and currently on a K5. My wife has asked me to take pictures of her volleyball tournaments and that has me severely lacking in a couple areas.
The biggest one for me is the body itself. The K5 just can't write to the SD cards fast enough. I rarely hit the buffer on a single burst, but I have hit the wall several times on rapid plays. An improvement in AF would be nice, but the bodies aren't usually moving all that fast.
Second one is a new lens. I'm used to most sports being shot with my Tokina 828AF Pro but the way the tournaments are set up I usually end up sitting indian-style with the post between my legs because the nets are close together. It allows for some really cool shots, but the 18-135 that I've been using isn't wide enough. Having it a bit faster for playing at dusk would be nice.

Where does this leave me. The 14mm/2.8 seems like it would be the best option from a cost perspective. Downside is lack of WR which is lower priority, and lack of zoom for trying to shoot serves. Don't want to shoot with a second camera for this stuff, so that puts the 15-30 which used seems to be about 3x the price for a lens I'll be shooting at 15mm the majority of the time. Also will be taking my wife to the UK for the first time later this year and she's going to be shooting the living daylights out of this thing while we're there. She usually walks around with the 18-135, but I think the wider lens will be nice for that trip which has me leaning towards the 15-30, especially for WR since it's October and rather wet. Advice?

Next up is the body. I think I need to upgrade to get over my frustrations with the K5 in this application. Won't be selling the K5 since it will be nice to have a backup. Right now the three options are K3, KP, and K1. Downside to K1 is it would force me into the 15-30, heavier for all handholding at awkward angles, and costs 4x what a K3 does used. Upside is it is FF and that much better. KP seems to only win in better AF performance vs the K3, but since I have big hands I'm really concerned about ergonomics. Option 3 is wait for the next crop sensor flagship. IQ is less of a concern since most of these will never be blown up past 12x18.

Thanks guys!

3 Days Ago   #2
Seeker of Knowledge
Loyal Site Supporter
aslyfox's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,728
an option you didn't mention - spend a little money to determine what you really want -

Information on Businesses that offer cameras and lenses for rent - PentaxForums.com

and by the way:

limited offer 20 % off rental from LensRental - PentaxForums.com
3 Days Ago   #3
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 13,019
Also consider the new DA*11-18 (it's fast … f2.8) and the older DA12-24 f4.
3 Days Ago   #4
Senior Member
Saxplayer1004's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 173
Original Poster
true, but no K3 for rent, and since I'm buying used, I'd rather buy it, use it for a few months and I'll be no worse off than renting from them for a week so I'd rather grab a used one and sit on it until it sells if I really don't like it, but the closer reality is I'll probably just keep it as a "just in case" since I have no real need to sell them.

@clackers the 11-18 was on the list, but got written off. Same price as the 15-30 and don't think I'd actually need the ultra-wide angle. On the 18-135 I've been going between 18-40ish regularly. I could go without the 30-40 range, but if I get to choose I'd rather not give up the 18-30 range.
The 12-24 was on the list based on cost though, but think I'd rather have the 2.8 for when I have to shoot at night since it is on a football field without great lighting

Another option is a 16-50 which I have wanted for a long time and think it will be wide enough. Downside there is no FF compatibility if I go to FF in the future, but neither will the 14mm


Last edited by Saxplayer1004; 3 Days Ago at 06:07 PM.
3 Days Ago   #5
Pentaxian
Kozlok's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Albuquerque
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,350
The 16-50 is cheap used now. So are the 17-50s from the aftermarket. Focuses slowly, but at the wide end you should be prefocusing anyway.

The Sigma 10-20/3.5 is really cheap now too. Barely over $300 new.
3 Days Ago   #6
Senior Member
Saxplayer1004's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 173
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Kozlok Quote
The 16-50 is cheap used now. So are the 17-50s from the aftermarket. Focuses slowly, but at the wide end you should be prefocusing anyway.
AF speed is rather important as prefocusing during volleyball is nearly impossible hence the desire for 2.8 vs 4. 17 is out since it only gives me 3* more FOV than the 18. The 16 gives me almost 10*, and the 14mm gets me all the way to 90* which will be nice.
3 Days Ago   #7
hcc
Pentaxian
hcc's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,650
QuoteOriginally posted by Saxplayer1004 Quote
My wife has asked me to take pictures of her volleyball tournaments and that has me severely lacking in a couple areas.
I have shot volleyball before. I am a player but my family also plays. So I photograph the family. I will share here my experience.


In my opinion, there two challenges: (a) lighting and (b) from where to shoot. Many VB places do not have a good lighting. This means that you need to use a fast lens to acheive a fast shutter speed (1/250 s or faster) and I recommend a fast prime (f1.4). A MF lens is preferable to shoot fast. Next where ar you? I try to shoot from the replacement bench, about 3 to 5 m from the line. From there I chose a focal lengths about 50-90mm (on APS-C). Finally get a fast SD card and shoot in JPEG. I set my camera to record up to 20 s burst before the camera slow down.


I used the K-7 coupled to a fast 50 prime lens (Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f1.4). Not too bad IMHO, but the K-3 was a major improvement. So I would recommend strongly a camera like the K-3 with a fast bursting. My best shots were obtained with the Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f1.4, although I also got some decent shots with the CZ85mm f1.4. Both are MF lens. In terms of techniques, I prefocus my camera+lens on the given point: e.g. the net, or a player and shoot burst, starting the ball arrive there. I tend to use shutter priority mode, setting 1/1,0000 s or faster, depending upon the lighting. Ideally I go for 1/8,000 s.

Hope that the comment may help.
3 Days Ago   #8
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 48,627
Since ergonomics sound like they might be a concern, go for the K-3 or K-3 II over the KP. The latter otherwise has better image quality, especially at high ISO settings.

Also, I would go for the 55-300mm PLM for sports. This will blow any other lens out of the water in terms of AF speed.

Lastly, either the 14mm or 12-24mm would be good wide-angle choices. I prefer the latter because the former isn't much better than far cheaper manual focus alternatives, such as the rokinon 14mm.


Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

3 Days Ago   #9
Senior Member
Saxplayer1004's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 173
Original Poster
@hcc, this is mostly outdoor tournaments. Courts are set up very close to each other *maybe 2m between the lines* and nowhere to get "up". I do have a FA 50mm 1.4 that I use for indoor along with the 80-200, but outdoors the angles are just strange so I have to get in right at the net. It's a weird beast trying to shoot these outdoor tournaments with 20 nets crammed into a football field

I've been in shutter priority with 1/2000 and getting great results with that outdoors on the 18-135.

@adam thanks. I think it is sounding like a K3 with a 14mm is going to be the ticket for this first round of upgrades
3 Days Ago   #10
New Member




Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Lake, Colorado
Posts: 17
QuoteOriginally posted by Saxplayer1004 Quote
Like the title says, I think I got stuck by my own research. Long time Pentax owner starting with a K10, and currently on a K5. My wife has asked me to take pictures of her volleyball tournaments and that has me severely lacking in a couple areas.
The biggest one for me is the body itself. The K5 just can't write to the SD cards fast enough. I rarely hit the buffer on a single burst, but I have hit the wall several times on rapid plays. An improvement in AF would be nice, but the bodies aren't usually moving all that fast.
Second one is a new lens. I'm used to most sports being shot with my Tokina 828AF Pro but the way the tournaments are set up I usually end up sitting indian-style with the post between my legs because the nets are close together. It allows for some really cool shots, but the 18-135 that I've been using isn't wide enough. Having it a bit faster for playing at dusk would be nice.

Where does this leave me. The 14mm/2.8 seems like it would be the best option from a cost perspective. Downside is lack of WR which is lower priority, and lack of zoom for trying to shoot serves. Don't want to shoot with a second camera for this stuff, so that puts the 15-30 which used seems to be about 3x the price for a lens I'll be shooting at 15mm the majority of the time. Also will be taking my wife to the UK for the first time later this year and she's going to be shooting the living daylights out of this thing while we're there. She usually walks around with the 18-135, but I think the wider lens will be nice for that trip which has me leaning towards the 15-30, especially for WR since it's October and rather wet. Advice?

Next up is the body. I think I need to upgrade to get over my frustrations with the K5 in this application. Won't be selling the K5 since it will be nice to have a backup. Right now the three options are K3, KP, and K1. Downside to K1 is it would force me into the 15-30, heavier for all handholding at awkward angles, and costs 4x what a K3 does used. Upside is it is FF and that much better. KP seems to only win in better AF performance vs the K3, but since I have big hands I'm really concerned about ergonomics. Option 3 is wait for the next crop sensor flagship. IQ is less of a concern since most of these will never be blown up past 12x18.

Thanks guys!
Hi, make sure you have the latest camera bios OS upgrade installed, and the fastest type of rated SD card for it. Our K-5 takes awhile to upload, but only after 20 shots in rapid sequence or so. The K-3 and K-70 run rings around the k-5 when uploading and working buffers. I understand the K-1 is slower altogether.
3 Days Ago   #11
Moderator
Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Sandy Hancock's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,891
If you require fast AF and fast aperture with ultra wide to long normal coverage you really need two lenses. If you need to switch between them during fast action you really need them on separate bodies.

If I were shooting your volleyball gig, I'd take my KP with DA*11-18 AND my K-1 with DFA24-70.

I took the KP/DA*11-18 to the UK (and France) recently and could not have been happier with the combination.
2 Days Ago   #12
Senior Member
Saxplayer1004's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 173
Original Poster
thanks. I think right now the plan is going to be 14mm and K3 as primary and see what's coming next before investing in the expensive zooms. Now to wait on the marketplace!
2 Days Ago - 1 Like   #13
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 9,601
Interesting challenge. I did a lot of sports and volleybal and beachvolleybal where two sports I did very often.

Showcase | Flickr

You can also look at sets Roel Ubels made.
Roel Ubels?s albums | Flickr

Just by looking at images and find out what you like and what you don't like.

On the body and lens;
- I never used wide angle on real sports images, well for scenery and stuff. So I don't connector really with what you are aiming for. Find a little distance and see if that brings you what you are looking for. For me 85mm was the sweetspot, but also used 40mm (the pancake is very fast focusing and f2.8) and sometimes longer lenses.
- On the body. Buy a body that indeed also works with the PLM lens in case you decide to buy it. So K-3 and newer.
- I somehow think that a KP could do the trick if you adoptie to it's limitations. Making less images is the trick. I know, I made a lot of images, but you don't always need them. How many good images do you need from a compleet season of volleybal? Learn to be in sinck with the players. You can learn to make the setup in one image simply by clicking on the right moment, instead of making a burst of images.

Have fun
2 Days Ago   #14
Senior Member
Saxplayer1004's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 173
Original Poster
thanks, unfortunately the way the courts are set up long lenses are impractical. You can see in the picture below how the field is setup and the courts on the left are the "normal" spacing compared to the ones on the right. Any longer lenses typically have my shooting through another game to get anything at the net which is why this is an abnormal request.

2 Days Ago   #15
eva
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
eva's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 503
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Interesting challenge. I did a lot of sports and volleybal and beachvolleybal where two sports I did very often.

Showcase | Flickr

You can also look at sets Roel Ubels made.
Roel Ubels?s albums | Flickr

Just by looking at images and find out what you like and what you don't like.

On the body and lens;
- I never used wide angle on real sports images, well for scenery and stuff. So I don't connector really with what you are aiming for. Find a little distance and see if that brings you what you are looking for. For me 85mm was the sweetspot, but also used 40mm (the pancake is very fast focusing and f2.8) and sometimes longer lenses.
- On the body. Buy a body that indeed also works with the PLM lens in case you decide to buy it. So K-3 and newer.
- I somehow think that a KP could do the trick if you adoptie to it's limitations. Making less images is the trick. I know, I made a lot of images, but you don't always need them. How many good images do you need from a compleet season of volleybal? Learn to be in sinck with the players. You can learn to make the setup in one image simply by clicking on the right moment, instead of making a burst of images.

Have fun
Uf,like your photos a lot .Specialy swimming.How did you catch Pieter van den Hoogenband under water?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
advice, camera, dslr, k1, k3, k5, kp, lack, lens, photography, time, upgrade advice, wr
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
new member needing advice! _brypics Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 18 12-21-2017 03:06 PM
New member - K3 bound and needing advice! Wildbearfeet Welcomes and Introductions 59 10-24-2017 04:34 PM
Just received the K3 and needing help with some items please ! jpzk Pentax K-3 10 02-16-2016 07:08 AM
Corporate Profits Just Hit An All-Time High, Wages Just Hit An All-Time Low Read mor jeffkrol General Talk 7 06-26-2012 02:56 PM
NYT/Krugman: Plutocracy, Paralysis, Perplexity jolepp General Talk 1 05-05-2012 11:06 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:10 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top