Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-21-2008, 01:54 AM   #16
Senior Member
marlon's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 232
If I had metering issues with any pentax, I would not have upgraded to yet another pentax. The only times metering fails me, is when I am being an idiot. The K20/K200's seem to be metering really darn well compared to "some others" Ive played with in the shops too, so I don't know what that dude mentioned by the OP is on...

Also judging by the amounts of posts by the OP and other thread/posts, I am personally inclined to just ignore this and go on. I can smell it a mile away.

10-21-2008, 05:53 AM   #17
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,314
are we all stupid?

why are we spending time responding to a rumour posted by someone who has not revisited the thread, does not own the camera, and is reporting hearsay anyway?
10-21-2008, 08:22 AM   #18
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Outside of Philly
Posts: 1,564
Well then the dynamic range of the scene obviously exceeds the sensor's dynamic range. Not much you do, except shoot at another time of day, or look into using fill flash if the subjects are small enough (like people as opposed to big buildings)

QuoteOriginally posted by weaponx525 Quote
I have to say that for all the times that I did expose for a blue sky the main subjects that I do end up taking the actual picture of end up being on the underexposed end. If I EV compensate I run the potential of blowing out the sky.
As for Peterson, if you meter off the sky, you'll get a "perfectly" exposed sky. The meter didn't "see" the rest of the scene, so it might not be "properly" exposed.
10-21-2008, 01:15 PM   #19
Junior Member




Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 42
Original Poster
Lowell Goudge... I do revisit this thread. It was dead for a few days, so I waited a few days before checking again, and I'm not trying to cause chaos or "issues", I heard it from a Pentax rep who love the k20d, but said that the metering was off compared with a Nikon one that he shot along side. I've always had Pentax, but get all nervous about buying another one with all the choices out there and never experimenting with other brands. I'd hate to spend the money and then find out he was right. THanks to all of you for your feedback. I really do appreciate it!

10-21-2008, 02:32 PM   #20
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,434
QuoteOriginally posted by mchud Quote
Lowell Goudge... I do revisit this thread. It was dead for a few days, so I waited a few days before checking again, and I'm not trying to cause chaos or "issues", I heard it from a Pentax rep who love the k20d, but said that the metering was off compared with a Nikon one that he shot along side. I've always had Pentax, but get all nervous about buying another one with all the choices out there and never experimenting with other brands. I'd hate to spend the money and then find out he was right. THanks to all of you for your feedback. I really do appreciate it!
Couple of things "off" really is relative term, especially w/ any form of "Matrix" metering...
As to the Nikon comparison, they do have a fairly advanced exposure system to Pentax as far as Matrix metering goes...
Back to "normal" mertering types ie spot, center weighted ect. Even the ANSI standards for calibrating a meter pretty "loose".

My favorite metering primer:
http://doug.kerr.home.att.net/pumpkin/Exposure_metering_18.pdf
Articles by Doug Kerr
AND my favorite quote:
'The exposure meter is calibrated to some clearly defined standards and the user needs to adjust his working method and his subject matter to these values. It does not help to suppose all kinds of assumptions that do not exist.'
Erwin Puts

Home

Last edited by jeffkrol; 10-21-2008 at 02:37 PM.
10-21-2008, 05:58 PM   #21
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
QuoteOriginally posted by weaponx525 Quote
It seems that if I am metering for the sky I am consistently getting underexposed shots? Why meter for the sky? I was trying out some tips from Understanding Exposure by Peterson and he mentions to meter for the sky as it gives best results.
My recollection is that Peterson discusses metering off the sky - a *blue* section of the sky, not clouds - for situations where there is bright sunlight directly on your subject. Subjects in bright sun will indeed be about the same value as the sky. Subjects in shadow will naturally be a lot darker, though. And on an overcast day, *nothing* is receiving direct sun - the sky is always the lightest area in any such scene, so metering off the sky on an overcast day will *always* produce underexposure.
10-21-2008, 08:20 PM   #22
Loyal Site Supporter
Canada_Rockies's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 9,148
QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
My recollection is that Peterson discusses metering off the sky - a *blue* section of the sky, not clouds - for situations where there is bright sunlight directly on your subject. Subjects in bright sun will indeed be about the same value as the sky. Subjects in shadow will naturally be a lot darker, though. And on an overcast day, *nothing* is receiving direct sun - the sky is always the lightest area in any such scene, so metering off the sky on an overcast day will *always* produce underexposure.
He (and many others) specifically recommend a North blue sky. This is because the blue sky in the North is almost perfectly the meter's expected 18% grey equivalent. Personally, I find Pentax metering to suit me pretty well. I have taken many times bracketed exposures where the best one was what the camera thought was best.
10-22-2008, 06:22 PM   #23
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 124
Not bashing the metering just trying to get tips!

With respect to Peterson, in his Understanding Exposure book, he doesn't mention North facing blue sky. Of course he does mention the "magic hour" of the day and that is probably the problem with my pic: it was taken at round 5pm and it was quite bright out, definitely NOT within the magic hour. I was experimenting with his suggestion that quote "when shooting under difficult lighting situations (sidelight and backlight being the two primary examples) ... [he] knows of "no one" more qualified to mediate than the Sky Brothers." He goes on to mention "Brother Backlit Sky" and "Brother Dusky Blue Sky" and " Brother Reflecting Sky" are your "go to guys".

Anyway not to bash Pentax metering or Peterson's methods, I think practice will definitely iron out a good compromise to metering under difficult conditions. Certainly one cannot expect to just meter for the sky and expect perfect exposures each time, otherwise we would all be experts and life would be boring!

Time to take more pics and get more practice. The fun is in the challenges anyway, right?

10-23-2008, 04:37 AM   #24
Pentaxian




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Durban, South Africa
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,051
Even the Nikon 700D the wunder kid has inconsistant metering under artificial lighting (DP review).

This was a MUCH touted deficiency in the K10D where the camera was lambasted over and over.

I have found tho with much use of the K10D that it is also very very sensitive to even the reflectivity of the subject and really, is it that hard to take a preview shot and adjust accordingly - hmm maybe 3 secs

I like my metering way better than my friends C 450d which definately meters aggressively for shadow content. Same for the Nikon 80D I believe
10-23-2008, 11:51 AM   #25
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Outside of Philly
Posts: 1,564
Yeah, the 450D is very biased to expose to the RIGHT.....Quite a bit different than my 40D.

Good solution - Shoot RAW
Best solution - avoid high contrast scenes
10-23-2008, 12:40 PM   #26
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,314
use spot metering and forget the rest

The real issue with everything but spot metering, which should interpret everything in the spot as 18% grey (and yes I know the world isn't just 18% grey) is that they all make some "assumptions" and "interpretations of the scene.

While this may help the novice, and even an experienced photographer in correct exposure selection, each of these schemes is different, and can be fooled.

I use spot metering. I meter off what I want, not what the software engineer wanted, or what some collection of photographers has decided is "normal"

As long as every one remembers that all advanced metering modes are tools, with the biases of others built in, OK go and shoot, but the bottom line is, if you really want to have a scene properly exposed, use spot metering, learn the techniques and theory of exposure and take photos. You should also learn when and how youor own camera's matrix or CW metering can be fooled. Then you might recognize when you should not rely on it.
10-23-2008, 12:57 PM   #27
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
QuoteOriginally posted by weaponx525 Quote
With respect to Peterson, in his Understanding Exposure book, he doesn't mention North facing blue sky.
I don't know about north, but he most certainly mentions blue - he calls this "brother blue sky". And as I said before, he also specifically recommends this for bright sunny days, and really, it's designed to make subjects *in direct sunlight* look well-exposed, while making subjects that are in shadow *look* like they are in shadow. It is a good technique *if* you pay attention to how it is supposed to be done, but it is also true that if you take any old scene in any old light and then meter off any old part of the sky, you will almost always get pretty bad underexposure. It really has to be a subject in direct sun, and it really has to be blue sky. That's he also has although those other sky brothers and uncles and so forth - to handle the other kinds of lighting conditions.

Here's important info to keep in mind:

All objects we can see are illuminated by something. And nothing can ever be brighter than the light source illuminating it (well, there is the concept of fluorescence, which can sometimes create that illusion, but we can ignore that here).

On a sunny day, the sun is what is doing all the illuminating. Nothing lit by the sun is going to brighter than the sun. We all recognize that instantly. However, we need to also keep in mind that for objects in shade, the sun is not lighting the objects *directly*. The sunlight that illuminates the object is actually first reflected off the sky. That is, the sky is the main source of illumination for objects in shade, although nearby sunlit objects can also help fill in the shade too. Because objects in the shade are lit by the sky, with help from nearby sunlit object, *nothing* in the shade can ever be brighter than the sky and/or the directly lit objects on the ground that are helping fill in the shade. That is so important it bears repeating - *nothing* in the shade can ever be brighter than the sky or the directly lit objects on the ground that are helping fill in the shade. Even a white piece of paper in the shade is darker than the sky, and is usually darker than just about any object in the light (even most objects we think of as "black").

Now, the sky is directly illuminated by the sun, and is actually about "average" in terms of how it compares to other directly lit objects on the ground. Meaning the sky is lighter than a dark colored object that is directly lit by the sun, and darker than a light colored object that is directly lit by the sun. So metering off the sky produces an exposure in which light colored objects in the sun look light, and dark colored objects in the sun look dark. But objects in shade - whether light or dark - will *also* be darker. So metering off the sky will always produce underexposure for objects in the shade (assuming you didn't *want* them to all look dark). It only produces normal looking exposure for objects in the light.
10-23-2008, 04:19 PM   #28
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7
Speaking about metering problems. My New K20 right out of the box displayed no metering info. at all in the viewfinder. It wasn't there, then it was, then it wasn't. Returned it to the store for another body. All is good with the new one. When I first read this topic I thought that this is what was meant.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Metering on the K7 milesy Pentax DSLR Discussion 12 08-01-2010 07:22 PM
Metering in K-x realguard Pentax DSLR Discussion 5 08-01-2010 09:03 AM
K-X vs K-7 metering yusuf Pentax DSLR Discussion 1 08-01-2010 08:09 AM
Metering issues with MF lenses PentHassyKon Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 36 05-01-2009 04:16 PM
Me Super - Metering Issues unixrevolution Pentax Film SLR Discussion 20 04-23-2009 06:50 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:03 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top