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11-16-2019, 01:03 AM - 1 Like   #1
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Eleven Pentax "specific / distinctive features" : do they impact your photography ?

Hello dear friends,

As far as i can recall, PENTAX DSLR have marked their story and paved their consumer's way in including quite a brunch of innovative features thourough the digital era : let us list the 11 major i have identified ; and please feel free to discuss :

- what kind of use you make of these features ?

- are they really usefull, did they count in your decision to buy PENTAX gear ?

- what your expectations are for the forthcomming PENTAX APS-C "K-2" flagship ?



1- Astrotracer : only proposed in Pentax SLRs, since K-3II (K-1, KP, K-1II) ; previously and otherwise available with O-GPS-1 add-on module

2- Pixel-shift : only on Pentax SLRS, since K-3II (K-1, KP, K-1II ; some other makers produce resolution enhancement via multi-exposure like Olympus and Fuji)

3- Composition adjustment : only on Pentax SLR, since K-5

4- AF precise adjustment : first on Pentax SLR, since K-10D

5- TAV mode : only on Pentax SLR, since K-10D (equiv. to M mode + ISO auto on GR III ; and other brands)

6- Green button : only on Pentax SLR, since MZ series

7- Sensor shake reduction : first on Pentax K-10D (and Minolta 7D)

8- Effective "all weather"/"weather resistant" sealing : systematic on Pentax SLR, after K-S1 ; and in Pentax new lenses since a few years

9- Pentaprism versus pentamirroir : systematic on Pentax SLR, since K-S1

10- In-body raw development : first on Pentax SLR, since K-10D

11- DNG raw format : first on Pentax, since K-5 (and Leica)



Hopefully, there might be more to come

Do you have any other expectations ?


Last edited by Zygonyx; 11-16-2019 at 02:01 AM.
11-16-2019, 02:00 AM - 3 Likes   #2
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DNG = great.
Astrotracer - great
Pixel shift , no so much.

QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Do you have any other expectations ?
Yes.

1) Remove pixel shift competely, instead of PS, introduce ISO50 and ISO25 RAW frames auto-align, with both SR or ES on tripod (increased IQ and DR, but no PS artifacts anymore).
2) Fractional exposure steps down to 0.1ev instead of 0.3ev.
3) Fix unstable connectivity between camera and phone, allow thetering on phone not only in single shot mode but also all other drive modes and including remote control of camera by phone also in video mode (phone = replace tilt screen on camera, also replaces IR remote).
4) Full time ES even with OVF
5) ES available in all drive modes (HDR, composite, interval, and bulb composite)
6) Programmable shutter time delay (from 0.5s to 30s) instead of 2s + 10s fixed.
7) Highlight clipping indicator in OVF
8) Automatic ETTR mode option of exposure program, available with both OVF and LV modes
9) Optional exposure program setting with SR enabled: shutter-speed to FL ratio (1 stop, 2 stops, 3 stop and 4 stops options) when SR is enabled
10) Aperture bracketing (like it was on K5)
11) Focus bracketing
12) Ricoh should get rid of PEF. Every camera maker should align to deliver RAW files in a standard DNG format, saving costs of Ricoh itself and also saving cost to third party image software makers.

---------- Post added 16-11-19 at 10:14 ----------

P.S. : Pixel is a good method in the lab, but always fail in case of motion in scene. Motion detection recovery vs noise, has no solution: either motion detection is exact but the pixel shift benefit is eliminated in that case, simply because every pixel information is corrupted by noise, which makes it impossible to fully distinguish if something moved in the scene or if there was noise over the same pixel compared between frames. So, practucally pixel shift is a hopeless solution to making high resolution images for all images that may have moving elements. That's why Ricoh should get rid of pixel shift completely.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 11-16-2019 at 02:22 AM.
11-16-2019, 02:24 AM - 1 Like   #3
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When I bought my first Pentax camera a K-x, in body shake reduction was a huge selling point for me.

Never cared for DNG raw format, as its point of existence seems to be to guarantee a, “standard” as if PEF and other camera manufacturers native raw formats somehow don’t qualify as legitimate standards. The worry that the technology to enable you to read PEF and other raw formats would become lost to the sands of time, but DNG will survive forever. Seams belittling to a lot of the raw formats that are very well established by major camera makers.

I understand maybe if you have a really small camera company, why you would want a generic standard rather than a proprietary file format. But for a major camera manufacturer like Pentax they should feel justified in staying with their own well established, and well supported PEF format.

[Unless there is some other reason for DNG that I haven’t heard of. If someone knows of another reason for DNG other than to be a less proprietary and more generic standard I’d be curious to hear about it.]

My expectations for the K2, is that it like its predecessor, will have completely underwhelming video. Or at least it has better because I am going to be purchasing a Sony A7 III, and using an adapter for my Pentax lenses. I will be purchasing the A7 III just for its video capability, so it would be horrible if the K2 was the first Pentax camera that actually had real good video.

[If anyone has any information that would suggest that the K2 is actually going to have high-quality video let me know before I buy the Sony!]
11-16-2019, 02:31 AM - 1 Like   #4
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Why would they remove PS? It's already there, just add the other functionality as needed.
The others I agree with, *particularly* 7 and 8: doesn't Nikon have a Highlight-weigted metering mode?
And speaking of metering: I would add
13) add matrix metering to M/K lenses.

11-16-2019, 02:33 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by SGOMMO7 Quote
My expectations for the K2, is that it like its predecessor, will have completely underwhelming video.
I've done video recording with my K1, and given the results I got from it (using proper video setting), I've found that the core skills for making compelling videos is the choice of subject lighting, environment, focal length, quality of echo free and noise free audio is extremely important, the sequencing of video shots and managing transitions (assembling the whole video sequence itself with sound sync out of multiples shots). And so I really did not understand why people complain about Pentax video, unless people use inappropriate video technique.

---------- Post added 16-11-19 at 10:34 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Why would they remove PS? It's already there
Lean. I hope that Ricoh don't had every feature ever invented for cameras for the last centry, if so, the cameras would be clogged and unusable.

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery.
11-16-2019, 03:14 AM - 2 Likes   #6
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I'm not so sure this is either news or rumour.
11-16-2019, 03:40 AM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I'm not so sure this is either news or rumour.
The Pentax-K-New is can't fit any category since it is a continuously morphing animal, now named K-2, but recently known as the Pentax Kentucky Fried Chicken (K.F.C) model.
11-16-2019, 03:45 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I'm not so sure this is either news or rumour.
The rumor might actually be that you make pictures

---------- Post added 16-11-19 at 03:47 ----------

@ biz :

Several of your points relative to ES seem to imply some kid of hybrid EVF, to be included in addtion to the classical OVF

That's actually my speculation for K-new.

11-16-2019, 03:57 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Several of your points relative to ES seem to imply some kid of hybrid EVF
Pure OVF and ES aren't exclusive. AE sensor allow for high light clipping indicator, as well as refined exposure metering and ETTR metering, EVF / hybird isn't not needed.
11-16-2019, 03:58 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
The rumor might actually be that you make pictures [COLOR="Silver"]

(...)
Actually, that would be a piece of news.
11-16-2019, 04:04 AM - 2 Likes   #11
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Did anyone mention ergonomics?
11-16-2019, 04:23 AM - 1 Like   #12
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Price for feature set is unique.
Shake reduction
Weather sealing
Everything else is not a killer

Maybe general look and feel
11-16-2019, 04:24 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Did anyone mention ergonomics?
I think we take it SO MUCH for granted that it slips our minds.

---------- Post added 11-16-19 at 04:28 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Lean. I hope that Ricoh don't had every feature ever invented for cameras for the last centry, if so, the cameras would be clogged and unusable.

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery.
Mechanical features, yes, I agree. Software features, it is far more of a grey area. And still, there are few features present in, say, the Pentax ME, that are not present in the K-1.


The ability to use M lenses with proper metering, for example, is the only one I can think of. And it happens to be one I sorely miss.
11-16-2019, 04:37 AM - 1 Like   #14
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My first Pentax camera didn't have any of those features; but after that I used all of them, at least occasionally.
I find particularly useful the shake reduction, AF adjustments and the pentaprism viewfinder. Weather sealing is also quite desirable, although I don't shoot in rain much.

From the upcoming APS-C camera I expect significantly improved performance. That's the only thing I feel is "missing" from the current models.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
1) Remove pixel shift competely, instead of PS, introduce ISO50 and ISO25 RAW frames auto-align, with both SR or ES on tripod (increased IQ and DR, but no PS artifacts anymore).
2) Fractional exposure steps down to 0.1ev instead of 0.3ev.
3) Fix unstable connectivity between camera and phone, allow thetering on phone not only in single shot mode but also all other drive modes and including remote control of camera by phone also in video mode (phone = replace tilt screen on camera, also replaces IR remote).
4) Full time ES even with OVF
5) ES available in all drive modes (HDR, composite, interval, and bulb composite)
6) Programmable shutter time delay (from 0.5s to 30s) instead of 2s + 10s fixed.
7) Highlight clipping indicator in OVF
8) Automatic ETTR mode option of exposure program, available with both OVF and LV modes
9) Optional exposure program setting with SR enabled: shutter-speed to FL ratio (1 stop, 2 stops, 3 stop and 4 stops options) when SR is enabled
10) Aperture bracketing (like it was on K5)
11) Focus bracketing
12) Ricoh should get rid of PEF. Every camera maker should align to deliver RAW files in a standard DNG format, saving costs of Ricoh itself and also saving cost to third party image software makers.
1) As usual, there is no "instead of": pixel shift and the sensor's minimum ISO are completely different things. You gain nothing at all by removing pixel shift.
By "auto align", do you mean dynamic pixel shift? Congratulations, you just "removed" that!
Of course, removing pixel shift doesn't make any sense; while it doesn't work in every case there are also use cases where it offers much improved image quality. Say, reproduction of paintings from a museum. Pixel shift must be improved, not removed.
2) Useless precision. Replacing the 0.3EV with 0.1EV means just you'd have to turn the dial 3 times as much for the desired change.
4) Not sure what's the point, when there's already the mirror action...
Some other ideas are quite good, and who knows... ETTR for example is implemented in the GR III, with a high enough resolution metering system it should work in OVF mode too.
11-16-2019, 04:37 AM - 3 Likes   #15
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Looking at your list, this is what I do and don't use / consider important / would like to see:
1- Astrotracer : only proposed in Pentax SLRs, since K-3II (K-1, KP, K-1II) ; previously and otherwise available with O-GPS-1 add-on module - No, but I like that it's there

2- Pixel-shift : only on Pentax SLRS, since K-3II (K-1, KP, K-1II ; some other makers produce resolution enhancement via multi-exposure like Olympus and Fuji) - Rarely; but, again, I like that it's there

3- Composition adjustment : only on Pentax SLR, since K-5 - No, never

4- AF precise adjustment : first on Pentax SLR, since K-10D - Yes, very much so; and I'd like to see this automated in future bodies

5- TAV mode : only on Pentax SLR, since K-10D (equiv. to M mode + ISO auto on GR III ; and other brands) - Yes, it's my favourite mode for much of my shooting

6- Green button : only on Pentax SLR, since MZ series - Yes, but only rarely (for metering with non-A lenses)

7- Sensor shake reduction : first on Pentax K-10D (and Minolta 7D) - Yes, most of the time

8- Effective "all weather"/"weather resistant" sealing : systematic on Pentax SLR, after K-S1 ; and in Pentax new lenses since a few years - Yes; I treat all my cameras as if they're not weather resistant, but I value WR as extra protection... going forward, I'd like to see more lenses with WR

9- Pentaprism versus pentamirroir : systematic on Pentax SLR, since K-S1 - Yes; I can't say I notice much difference when switching between cameras with each type, but I'll take more light if it's offered

10- In-body raw development : first on Pentax SLR, since K-10D - No; I shoot raw all of the time, and always develop on my PC with raw processing software

11- DNG raw format : first on Pentax, since K-5 (and Leica) - Yes; I use DNG format for all of my raw files. Opinions vary, but I believe DNG has the greatest compatibility across different software and is therefore future-proof to some extent
I'll add the following:
12 - Top panel LCD - I find this extremely useful, and far prefer it to using the main screen; I use it frequently

13 - Dust alert - Since I change lenses frequently, this is valuable to me, and preferable to taking stopped-down shots of a white wall or sky

14 - Dust removal - Again, valuable to me for the same reason as above

15 - Pixel mapping - Although many raw processing applications can average out stuck / hot pixels, I prefer that the camera is able to map these out at source

16 - Dual SD card slots - Important to me, as I don't want to lose one or more shots if a card fails or becomes corrupted

17 - Infra-red remote control - when tripod shooting, I tend to use either timed release or remote, and I'd rather not have unnecessary wires dangling from the camera

18 - In-camera flash - whilst I don't use it myself, I know a lot of folks do. I don't see it as necessary on a flagship body, but for the rest of the range it makes sense

19 - OVF diopter adjustment - essential for those of us who shoot without wearing our glasses; I don't like shooting with my glasses on, and switch to using contacts if using a body without diopter adjustment

20 - Aspect ratios - I would like to see a selection of aspect ratios available in Live View, to assist with composition; the Q-series cameras offer this and it's very useful if, say, you're shooting a 1:1 or 5:4 series
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