Battery used in Upcoming APS this Spring

**Rondec** · 11-24-2019, 02:45 PM

I like the idea of using a bigger battery than currently used in the K-1 and preceding flagships. My guess is they will need to move on with the next full frame camera and medium format camera, might as well start now.

kypfer · 11-24-2019, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by SSGGeezer

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the battery life on the KP, with light flash use (occasional fill) I have gotten over 600 shots in a day on one battery. I believe CIPA numbers are 50% flash on, and with the KP, you have a lot less need for flash use. Go for the deal! you will be happy after you start using the KP regularly.

In my limited experience with my KP you have been very lucky! My K-70 would manage over 400 shots per battery on a good day, but I definitely notice a lower count with my recently acquired KP, using the same (mostly telephoto zoom) lenses on a similar range of wildlife subjects. Where with the K-70 I'd happily grab the camera and go for a walk if the battery indicator showed green, the KP has caught me out a couple of times ... now I've always got a spare battery in my pocket!

SSGGeezer · 11-24-2019, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by kypfer

In my limited experience with my KP you have been very lucky! My K-70 would manage over 400 shots per battery on a good day, but I definitely notice a lower count with my recently acquired KP, using the same (mostly telephoto zoom) lenses on a similar range of wildlife subjects. Where with the K-70 I'd happily grab the camera and go for a walk if the battery indicator showed green, the KP has caught me out a couple of times ... now I've always got a spare battery in my pocket!

And this was a new Pentax branded battery? I am surprised that your numbers were so low when I could get over 400 min cool weather out of off brand batteries with my KP. What are your settings as far as noise removal and brightening?

kypfer · 11-25-2019, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by SSGGeezer

And this was a new Pentax branded battery? I am surprised that your numbers were so low when I could get over 400 min cool weather out of off brand batteries with my KP. What are your settings as far as noise removal and brightening?

Indeed, this was with the new battery as supplied with the KP. Initially I was prepared to consider it may need "forming" by recharging it a few times to bring it up to maximum capacity, but no. I've even used the original battery from the K-70 in the KP, but the KP simply doesn't seem to last as long. It's a difficult comparison to make directly as conditions vary from day to day, and I'll admit I've not sat down and simply clicked the shutter on either camera 'till the battery run flat. I'm just aware that having spent a couple of hours in the bird hide(s) and maybe walked about for an hour or two, a typical routine for me, the K-70 would almost always have had "something left" when I went home, whereas the KP will often need a second battery. Total frame count, in my instance, is probably slightly misleading, as there can be a lot of focussing and framing going on in a wildlife scenario, without necessarily always making an exposure, but as I'm still using the same lenses the overall power consumption should be similar.
Power save settings are similar on both bodies, as are noise removal and brightening ... indeed, having spent some time initially with my K-70 getting everything set as I wanted it, I diligently sat down with both cameras and went through the menu settings (where comparable) and set them the same! I do notice the KP takes a lot longer to "wake up" from initial shutter-button press to being ready for action, the K-70 is virtually instantaneous, so there's obviously "a lot more going on" to ready the KP for action.

biz-engineer · 11-25-2019, 05:02 AM

I think they'll use a new battery model to allow for USB-C charging.

reh321 · 11-25-2019, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by Biff

Oh, and why the heck didn't they use that one on the KP. . . ?

Size was a major issue on the KP.
I have virtually not ever had the KP battery last less than a day, and it takes only a few seconds to swap in a new one.

reh321 · 11-25-2019, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I think they'll use a new battery model to allow for USB-C charging.

Is battery itself the issue, not recharging system inside the camera?

**mikesbike** · 11-25-2019, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by Biff

Thanks all, that's the battery I'm hoping for as well, the D-LI90. Glad to see your general consensus on that, I think that may make it more likely.

---------- Post added 11-24-19 at 09:47 AM ----------

Oh, and why the heck didn't they use that one on the KP. . . ?

Because the KP concept is for lightweight compactness in a body of pro-build quality, as a compact alternative to APS-C mirrorless, or a lightweight alternative 2nd body to the K-1. Its slim, lighter design is also an ideal match for use with the DA Limiteds. Same reason it has no top LCD along with its new K-1 style controls. I do sometimes use the D-190 battery with my KP, by simply installing the battery grip. Then it has both batteries with loads of shooting time, at about the same weight as a K-3 II with no battery grip. I expect the new model will continue using the same battery as the other recent flagships.

Dr_who · 11-25-2019, 06:29 PM

If they want to add any new features like charge via usb it'll have to at least be a D-I90B or something where it'll still work but have additional functions.

In the end thou I rather they pick a battery that works for the camera the best. If the camera does, and I'm not convinced it does, but if it has a hybrid viewfinder I would think a new battery would be in high order

ecostigny · 11-25-2019, 06:40 PM

I agree that the charging system is what would need to be modified for USB-C charging, not the battery--especially since the USB Type-C standard is more concerned with the symmetric connector itself than with its electrical properties.

**monochrome** · 11-25-2019, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Biff

Thanks all, that's the battery I'm hoping for as well, the D-LI90. Glad to see your general consensus on that, I think that may make it more likely.

---------- Post added 11-24-19 at 09:47 AM ----------

Oh, and why the heck didn't they use that one on the KP. . . ?

The KP doesn't have a large handgrip to hide the D-Li90 battery in.

Not a Number · 11-26-2019, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by ecostigny

I agree that the charging system is what would need to be modified for USB-C charging, not the battery--especially since the USB Type-C standard is more concerned with the symmetric connector itself than with its electrical properties.

Charging would be from the USB Power Delivery specification through USB-C, which is max of 20V at 5A. So the charging circuit in the camera would just have to convert up to 20VDC to 8.3-8.4VDC. The main problem is going to be heat. Notice how warm the charger and batteries get (especially old ones)?

photoptimist · 11-26-2019, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Charging would be from the USB Power Delivery specification through USB-C, which is max of 20V at 5A. So the charging circuit in the camera would just have to convert up to 20VDC to 8.3-8.4VDC. The main problem is going to be heat. Notice how warm the charger and batteries get (especially old ones)?

Exactly! Heat is an extremely serious safety issue with LiIon batteries. If even the littlest spot inside the battery gets too hot, it undergoes thermal runaway and whole battery erupts in a jet of flame. Recharging these batteries inside an enclosed and hot space (assuming the camera is being used) is risky -- that's why Pentax chargers have the battery sitting in the open during charging.

kevinWE · 11-26-2019, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by SSGGeezer

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the battery life on the KP, with light flash use

As a KP owner also, I have to disagree. The battery life sucks in my opinion. I see it as the major downside of the KP. I don't like the battery and find I'm charging them more than I care to.

11-25-2019, 12:50 PM	#23
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	Originally posted by Biff Thanks all, that's the battery I'm hoping for as well, the D-LI90. Glad to see your general consensus on that, I think that may make it more likely. ---------- Post added 11-24-19 at 09:47 AM ---------- Oh, and why the heck didn't they use that one on the KP. . . ? Because the KP concept is for lightweight compactness in a body of pro-build quality, as a compact alternative to APS-C mirrorless, or a lightweight alternative 2nd body to the K-1. Its slim, lighter design is also an ideal match for use with the DA Limiteds. Same reason it has no top LCD along with its new K-1 style controls. I do sometimes use the D-190 battery with my KP, by simply installing the battery grip. Then it has both batteries with loads of shooting time, at about the same weight as a K-3 II with no battery grip. I expect the new model will continue using the same battery as the other recent flagships. Last edited by mikesbike; 11-25-2019 at 12:56 PM.

11-26-2019, 02:48 PM	#28
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,126	Originally posted by Not a Number Charging would be from the USB Power Delivery specification through USB-C, which is max of 20V at 5A. So the charging circuit in the camera would just have to convert up to 20VDC to 8.3-8.4VDC. The main problem is going to be heat. Notice how warm the charger and batteries get (especially old ones)? Exactly! Heat is an extremely serious safety issue with LiIon batteries. If even the littlest spot inside the battery gets too hot, it undergoes thermal runaway and whole battery erupts in a jet of flame. Recharging these batteries inside an enclosed and hot space (assuming the camera is being used) is risky -- that's why Pentax chargers have the battery sitting in the open during charging. Last edited by photoptimist; 11-26-2019 at 03:45 PM.

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11-24-2019, 02:45 PM	#16
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I like the idea of using a bigger battery than currently used in the K-1 and preceding flagships. My guess is they will need to move on with the next full frame camera and medium format camera, might as well start now.

11-24-2019, 03:29 PM	#17
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,594	Originally posted by SSGGeezer There is absolutely nothing wrong with the battery life on the KP, with light flash use (occasional fill) I have gotten over 600 shots in a day on one battery. I believe CIPA numbers are 50% flash on, and with the KP, you have a lot less need for flash use. Go for the deal! you will be happy after you start using the KP regularly. In my limited experience with my KP you have been very lucky! My K-70 would manage over 400 shots per battery on a good day, but I definitely notice a lower count with my recently acquired KP, using the same (mostly telephoto zoom) lenses on a similar range of wildlife subjects. Where with the K-70 I'd happily grab the camera and go for a walk if the battery indicator showed green, the KP has caught me out a couple of times ... now I've always got a spare battery in my pocket!

11-24-2019, 05:14 PM	#18
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Originally posted by kypfer In my limited experience with my KP you have been very lucky! My K-70 would manage over 400 shots per battery on a good day, but I definitely notice a lower count with my recently acquired KP, using the same (mostly telephoto zoom) lenses on a similar range of wildlife subjects. Where with the K-70 I'd happily grab the camera and go for a walk if the battery indicator showed green, the KP has caught me out a couple of times ... now I've always got a spare battery in my pocket! And this was a new Pentax branded battery? I am surprised that your numbers were so low when I could get over 400 min cool weather out of off brand batteries with my KP. What are your settings as far as noise removal and brightening?

11-25-2019, 01:29 AM	#19
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,594	Originally posted by SSGGeezer And this was a new Pentax branded battery? I am surprised that your numbers were so low when I could get over 400 min cool weather out of off brand batteries with my KP. What are your settings as far as noise removal and brightening? Indeed, this was with the new battery as supplied with the KP. Initially I was prepared to consider it may need "forming" by recharging it a few times to bring it up to maximum capacity, but no. I've even used the original battery from the K-70 in the KP, but the KP simply doesn't seem to last as long. It's a difficult comparison to make directly as conditions vary from day to day, and I'll admit I've not sat down and simply clicked the shutter on either camera 'till the battery run flat. I'm just aware that having spent a couple of hours in the bird hide(s) and maybe walked about for an hour or two, a typical routine for me, the K-70 would almost always have had "something left" when I went home, whereas the KP will often need a second battery. Total frame count, in my instance, is probably slightly misleading, as there can be a lot of focussing and framing going on in a wildlife scenario, without necessarily always making an exposure, but as I'm still using the same lenses the overall power consumption should be similar. Power save settings are similar on both bodies, as are noise removal and brightening ... indeed, having spent some time initially with my K-70 getting everything set as I wanted it, I diligently sat down with both cameras and went through the menu settings (where comparable) and set them the same! I do notice the KP takes a lot longer to "wake up" from initial shutter-button press to being ready for action, the K-70 is virtually instantaneous, so there's obviously "a lot more going on" to ready the KP for action.

11-25-2019, 05:02 AM	#20
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	I think they'll use a new battery model to allow for USB-C charging.

11-25-2019, 07:01 AM	#21
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by Biff Oh, and why the heck didn't they use that one on the KP. . . ? Size was a major issue on the KP. I have virtually not ever had the KP battery last less than a day, and it takes only a few seconds to swap in a new one.

11-25-2019, 07:04 AM	#22
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by biz-engineer I think they'll use a new battery model to allow for USB-C charging. Is battery itself the issue, not recharging system inside the camera?

11-25-2019, 06:29 PM	#24
Dr_who Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 777	If they want to add any new features like charge via usb it'll have to at least be a D-I90B or something where it'll still work but have additional functions. In the end thou I rather they pick a battery that works for the camera the best. If the camera does, and I'm not convinced it does, but if it has a hybrid viewfinder I would think a new battery would be in high order

11-25-2019, 06:40 PM	#25
ecostigny Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Branford, CT Posts: 561	I agree that the charging system is what would need to be modified for USB-C charging, not the battery--especially since the USB Type-C standard is more concerned with the symmetric connector itself than with its electrical properties.

11-25-2019, 07:51 PM	#26
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Biff Thanks all, that's the battery I'm hoping for as well, the D-LI90. Glad to see your general consensus on that, I think that may make it more likely. ---------- Post added 11-24-19 at 09:47 AM ---------- Oh, and why the heck didn't they use that one on the KP. . . ? The KP doesn't have a large handgrip to hide the D-Li90 battery in.

11-26-2019, 01:48 PM	#27
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by ecostigny I agree that the charging system is what would need to be modified for USB-C charging, not the battery--especially since the USB Type-C standard is more concerned with the symmetric connector itself than with its electrical properties. Charging would be from the USB Power Delivery specification through USB-C, which is max of 20V at 5A. So the charging circuit in the camera would just have to convert up to 20VDC to 8.3-8.4VDC. The main problem is going to be heat. Notice how warm the charger and batteries get (especially old ones)?

11-26-2019, 02:58 PM	#29
kevinWE Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Illinois, USA Posts: 497	Originally posted by SSGGeezer There is absolutely nothing wrong with the battery life on the KP, with light flash use As a KP owner also, I have to disagree. The battery life sucks in my opinion. I see it as the major downside of the KP. I don't like the battery and find I'm charging them more than I care to.