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12-11-2019, 10:14 AM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by psoo Quote
My primary camera is a K50 which is capable of taking sharp pictures. I've owned it for several years and I am generally satisfied with the quality of the photos but I'm always trying to get sharper images by improving my techniques. I have been looking at the reviews of Pentax DSLR cameras in this Forum and I find that for about $1000 the K-5iis should get better sharpness. My K50 is rated 9.4 in image quality compared to 9.8 for the K5iis. Both cameras have 16 Megapixels and the same resolution (3264x6016). Is the difference between 9.4 and 9.6 meaningful or will both cameras give the same image quality if I use the same lens on both? The KP camera is in current production and is rated 9.9 and has 24.32 Megapixels. I often need to crop my images a lot for distant shots such as for bird photography and I am wondering if the larger number of megapixels on the KP will make it outperform the K-5iis and K50 for this type of photography? The KP is also offered at about $1000 which is about what I want pay. What say ye learned Pentaxians.
I say you hold off & wait for that upcoming APS-C flagship camera. If your K-50 is working fine, keep shooting it. Lets say you don't end up liking that new camera & decide to get the KP later on instead. There's a very big probability that it's going to be sold way cheaper by the end of next year than what it's currently selling at this year. This is provided that you can wait that long. You can use the difference towards some new glass.

But yeah. Forget the older cameras like the K-5/5II/5IIs. Don't get me wrong. They're very excellent cameras, but your K-50 already offers you very similar IQ & the newer cameras offer way more for your money.

12-11-2019, 10:58 AM   #32
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I am not sure you need to upgrade, if you need some extreme sharpness anyway KP >> K5ii
Keep in mind sensor size is one thing but superb glass will be needed too...
12-11-2019, 01:54 PM - 2 Likes   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by fsge Quote
I am not sure you need to upgrade, if you need some extreme sharpness anyway KP >> K5ii
Keep in mind sensor size is one thing but superb glass will be needed too...
Several respondents have stated that I should also consider investing in superior glass, in addition to more megapixels to give the image quality I have always craved. I have tons of glass, much of it stuck on old Pentaxes that I bought for my collection. Most of these prime lenses were on Spotmatics and K1000's. Other lenses I bought at yard sales for a pittance. Many of these lenses are rated v. highly in this Forum. Once in a while I'll pop on of these legacy lenses onto my K50 or Kx and produce nice pics. However, My most used lenses are the DA 18-135, DA 12-24, DA 18-250, Tamron 28-300, and I recently bought a Pentax M*300 f/4. I think these are better glass than I deserve so I don't want to buy any additional expensive lenses. I agree with most of you that upgrading my K50 to say a KP will increase my ability to get better nature shots. Below are a few pics taken with these lenses mounted on my K50 or Kx. Better technique, especially the use of a tripod, could have improved the sharpness I'm sure.
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12-11-2019, 02:17 PM   #34
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Keep in mind that K50 output is better than k-x as the latter is its grand grandfather (I used to own). I can recognize some k-x softness (assuming it does not come from glass).
You dont need to invest tons of money to get great glass : for instance macro lenses are sharp by definition, also older prime lenses are often relatively cheap (your M*300 I am sure will deliver very good output).
Zooms you listed are ok (DA 18-135, DA 12-24) to soft/very soft (DA 18-250, Tamron 28-300) ; It is probably worth waiting to see the difference with better glass paired with your K50 before thinking about a new body. In any case current ones K70 / KP / Knew will bring some noticeable improvements

12-11-2019, 02:20 PM - 2 Likes   #35
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Why the fascination with superzoom lenses, both an 18-250 and a 28-300?

Best body in the world won’t get you great results with them.
12-11-2019, 02:38 PM   #36
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"Best results" V "best bang for your bucks" ATM?= get a K-70 for around $400-500

"Better results" but "more bucks" ATM? = KP, or wait for "whenever" the next "high end" APS-C body finally arrives

Last edited by jeallen01; 12-11-2019 at 02:45 PM.
12-11-2019, 03:11 PM - 1 Like   #37
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Your lenses are good ones. As you do significant cropping at times, the 24mp of the KP will be very advantageous. Yes, not having the AA filter alone makes a difference. No current Pentax DSLR models have an AA filter. You could indeed wait to see what the forthcoming new APS-C flagship might bring, but keep in mind it will likely be introduced at around twice the price of the current KP offerings. Then you could wait about another year for the price to settle down some- maybe at around $1,000 or so. Also, since you are coming from a K-30, not a flagship model, you will not miss having a top LCD screen etc, so the additional features the KP brings you will be well above those of your K-30. Its set of controls is very advanced and useful. Also keep in mind these models (KP, K-3, K-5, etc.) are designed for use by pros and other advanced photographers, so they do not include the "Scene" modes. Instead you get better controls with the KP to bring about what you need when facing various lighting challenges, once you learn when and how to use them and what to do.

Due to your location, stores offering great prices for a KP, like B&H, are located relatively close for you. But I don't necessarily recommend that you "go and hold a KP to see how it feels to you". It will of course be somewhat different than what you are used to. I am assuming by your statements that you don't have a hugely deep background in camera use, as many of us here are very experienced "holders" of many different cameras with a variety of sizes and designs, yet we have and love our KP bodies. The idea is it might take you a little time and experience to adjust to a different design concept. In so doing, you might improve your holding technique and along with that the clarity of your results. For stability, even with SR, you are better off to hold with the left hand from underneath providing most of the support, while the right hand is for additional stability and to work most of the controls. This is far better than holding as if grabbing someone by the ears and relying on a large right hand grip.

That said, when working with large lenses for hand-held shooting, a bulkier camera body helps for handling the camera for a period of time during a lull when not shooting. When shooting with such a lens, holding of the lens itself from underneath is the standard method, so the body's right-hand grip is of little consequence while shooting. I have the FA* 300mm f/4.5 which is lighter and more compact than your very fine M* 300mm f/4, but still quite a large lens. With such a lens on my KP, I find having the optional battery grip provides a better balance for general handling. You will then have loads of gripping surface, along with loads of battery life. And as to overall weight, about the same as a K-3 II flagship with no battery grip, yet with even more battery life. With the advantage of such low prices now for the KP here in the US, the battery grip at about $198 still puts the entire cost well below what the new flagship alone will cost.

The KP will afford you numerous advantages beyond having 24MP for cropping. Its low light/higher ISO performance for higher shutter speeds for hand-held shots or live subjects is outstanding. This will allow you to increase your ISO more without significant loss of quality. When shooting with a 300mm lens, even with SR you will need more shutter speed to ensure clarity.

Even with JPEGs right out of the camera, the KP's processor brings exceptionally great results. Just be sure to set up "Fine Sharpening" in the Custom Image menus, especially for the most often-used "Bright" category. Important!


Last edited by mikesbike; 12-11-2019 at 04:04 PM.
12-11-2019, 03:14 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by blacklite Quote
Why the fascination with superzoom lenses, both an 18-250 and a 28-300?

Best body in the world won’t get you great results with them.
Oh Blacklite, I feel like you just stabbed me in the heart. The first 4-5 photos I showed were taken with the DA18-250 or the Tammy 28-300. I thought they were quite sharp and I was proud of them. I can see that your standards of image quality are far superior to mine - I have a loooong way to go I think I want to give up photography and take up knitting.
12-11-2019, 03:16 PM   #39
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On those pictures, the closeups/macro shots seem to be the ones that can be improved more, from a technical point of view. From what I see, the first picture is at 250 mm (on the Tamron 18-300?) and the cactus one is at 135mm (DA 18-135?). Those high-ratio zooms tend to get noticeably worse at the long end, so it might be better to use a "shorter" lens (or just use those superzooms up to ~70-90 mm or so), then change to a dedicated long lens for this kind of picture.

The landscape ones, on the other hand, have zero problems
12-11-2019, 03:24 PM - 2 Likes   #40
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The 18-250 was great on my 6mp k100d but on the 20mp ks2 it does not keep up. The 55-300plm does. The more resolution you have the more your lens needs to resolve.
12-11-2019, 03:49 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
On those pictures, the closeups/macro shots seem to be the ones that can be improved more, from a technical point of view. From what I see, the first picture is at 250 mm (on the Tamron 18-300?) and the cactus one is at 135mm (DA 18-135?). Those high-ratio zooms tend to get noticeably worse at the long end, so it might be better to use a "shorter" lens (or just use those superzooms up to ~70-90 mm or so), then change to a dedicated long lens for this kind of picture.

The landscape ones, on the other hand, have zero problems
Hi Serkevan, thanks for your comments. If you click on the photo's EXIF (Whatever that stands for) you will see the correct camera and lens specifications under "Lens ID". I didn't know that the software did this automatically and so I gave some data incorrectly when I described the camera and lens in the EXIF "Object name" section. The first shot of a red dogwood fruit was taken with my DA 18-250 set to 250mm FL. The cactus shot was taken with a DA18-135 with the FL set at 135mm. Both shots were taken at the maximum FL so for these two lenses the sharpness seems very good to me. Maybe these two lenses, unlike many other zooms, perform well at the long end.
12-11-2019, 03:51 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by psoo Quote
Several respondents have stated that I should also consider investing in superior glass, in addition to more megapixels to give the image quality I have always craved. I have tons of glass, much of it stuck on old Pentaxes that I bought for my collection. Most of these prime lenses were on Spotmatics and K1000's. Other lenses I bought at yard sales for a pittance. Many of these lenses are rated v. highly in this Forum. Once in a while I'll pop on of these legacy lenses onto my K50 or Kx and produce nice pics. However, My most used lenses are the DA 18-135, DA 12-24, DA 18-250, Tamron 28-300, and I recently bought a Pentax M*300 f/4. I think these are better glass than I deserve so I don't want to buy any additional expensive lenses. I agree with most of you that upgrading my K50 to say a KP will increase my ability to get better nature shots. Below are a few pics taken with these lenses mounted on my K50 or Kx. Better technique, especially the use of a tripod, could have improved the sharpness I'm sure.
I now see you do have some experience in use of a variety of camera body styles, including some of the 35 mm film bodies. You should have no trouble adapting to the KP. The shots you present are not bad. You should definitely enjoy using a KP. It is a fact that zoom lenses are not usually at their best when zoomed to their longest FL. The DA 18-135mm is no exception. Otherwise, it s a very good lens. To cover the range up to the 300mm of your M* prime lens, I recommend the DA 55-300mm WR lens. Even the previous non-PLM model, the f/4-5.8 WR works great on the KP with its faster, more advanced AF system. I most often shoot using center-only spot AF. This older model is still available new at a lower cost than the PLM version, and its optics are just as good. In fact, it does not have an internal-focus mechanism, so no "focus breathing" which reduces effective focal length when shooting at a closer range. So if you are able to get up closer for a bird shot for instance, you'll get a larger image in your frame with the older non-PLM version without cropping.

A super-zoom like the 18-250mm are a best tool for large social events, graduations, weddings, etc where you can shoot either from a close or far distance and get a group shot or single out an individual without moving from your position.

Last edited by mikesbike; 12-11-2019 at 04:11 PM.
12-11-2019, 04:15 PM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
Your lenses are good ones. As you do significant cropping at times, the 24mp of the KP will be very advantageous. Yes, not having the AA filter alone makes a difference. No current Pentax DSLR models have an AA filter. You could indeed wait to see what the forthcoming new APS-C flagship might bring, but keep in mind it will likely be introduced at around twice the price of the current KP offerings. Then you could wait about another year for the price to settle down some- maybe at around $1,000 or so. Also, since you are coming from a K-30, not a flagship model, you will not miss having a top LCD screen etc, so the additional features the KP brings you will be well above those of your K-30. Its set of controls is very advanced and useful. Also keep in mind these models (KP, K-3, K-5, etc.) are designed for use by pros and other advanced photographers, so they do not include the "Scene" modes. Instead you get better controls with the KP to bring about what you need when facing various lighting challenges, once you learn when and how to use them and what to do.

Due to your location, stores offering great prices for a KP, like B&H, are located relatively close for you. But I don't necessarily recommend that you "go and hold a KP to see how it feels to you". It will of course be somewhat different than what you are used to. I am assuming by your statements that you don't have a hugely deep background in camera use, as many of us here are very experienced "holders" of many different cameras with a variety of sizes and designs, yet we have and love our KP bodies. The idea is it might take you a little time and experience to adjust to a different design concept. In so doing, you might improve your holding technique and along with that the clarity of your results. For stability, even with SR, you are better off to hold with the left hand from underneath providing most of the support, while the right hand is for additional stability and to work most of the controls. This is far better than holding as if grabbing someone by the ears and relying on a large right hand grip.

That said, when working with large lenses for hand-held shooting, a bulkier camera body helps for handling the camera for a period of time during a lull when not shooting. When shooting with such a lens, holding of the lens itself from underneath is the standard method, so the body's right-hand grip is of little consequence while shooting. I have the FA* 300mm f/4.5 which is lighter and more compact than your very fine M* 300mm f/4, but still quite a large lens. With such a lens on my KP, I find having the optional battery grip provides a better balance for general handling. You will then have loads of gripping surface, along with loads of battery life. And as to overall weight, about the same as a K-3 II flagship with no battery grip, yet with even more battery life. With the advantage of such low prices now for the KP here in the US, the battery grip at about $198 still puts the entire cost well below what the new flagship alone will cost.

The KP will afford you numerous advantages beyond having 24MP for cropping. Its low light/higher ISO performance for higher shutter speeds for hand-held shots or live subjects is outstanding. This will allow you to increase your ISO more without significant loss of quality. When shooting with a 300mm lens, even with SR you will need more shutter speed to ensure clarity.

Even with JPEGs right out of the camera, the KP's processor brings exceptionally great results. Just be sure to set up "Fine Sharpening" in the Custom Image menus, especially for the most often-used "Bright" category. Important!

Thanks Mikesbike for the detailed info you gave. I will read it more carefully for the excellent advice, and digest what you recommend.
12-20-2019, 11:00 AM   #44
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I'd like to thank everybody for your invaluable advice. I'm still mulling some of your comments.I think that the current K50 and lenses that I have are generally very adequate for my personal needs.. If can improve my skills that will also help in my goal for improved image quality. I have decided that a good plan for me is to not rush into purchasing a new camera but to wait a while to see if the cost of a KP will drop. At that time I will buy one. Thanks again.
12-21-2019, 02:48 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by psoo Quote
I'd like to thank everybody for your invaluable advice. I'm still mulling some of your comments.I think that the current K50 and lenses that I have are generally very adequate for my personal needs.. If can improve my skills that will also help in my goal for improved image quality. I have decided that a good plan for me is to not rush into purchasing a new camera but to wait a while to see if the cost of a KP will drop. At that time I will buy one. Thanks again.
Good plan. In the meanwhile have a look at used limited lenses. There are some bargains out there and those lenses are stellar
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