[MarkJerling]

Female friends at the time who were.


Steve

Yeah yeah yeah. We believe you. Every word.

[Cerebum]

Female friends at the time who were.


Steve

Yeah yeah

---------- Post added 12-13-19 at 01:12 AM ----------

Yeah yeah yeah. We believe you. Every word.

Oh, beat me to it

[HoutHans]

We should just get those with broken K-30/K-50s to provide the serial numbers on their camera's and the estimate can be much more accurate, just approach it like the German Tank Problem.

[MrB1]

....You need to divide (# Failed) / ((# Failed) + (# OK)) to get the failure rate in total population. For the K30 & K-50, that's 33%.

Moreover, only about 10% of K-30 and K50 owners on PF participated in the survey. Chances are those with broken cameras were more likely to participate in the poll than those with working cameras.

Although a camera failure is an awful experience for individual users, there is optimism in photoptimist's suggestions here regarding the general situation.

There was a report several years ago on a reliability survey of digital cameras. I seem to recall that the typical failure rate (for all reasons) during the first three years of use was of the order of 5%, which is not dissimilar to the combined results quoted above.

Perhaps it is also worth noting that traders here are still selling second-hand (i.e. used) Pentax cameras - including the K-30, K-50, K-S1, K-S2 and K-70 - with warranties. Some, e.g. Wex and SRS, give a 12-month warranty on all their second-hand cameras, even though e.g. the K-30 might have had little use and could be up to 7 years old. Would/could they afford to do that if the failure rate was much higher than the typical 5% level?

Philip

[UncleVanya]

We should just get those with broken K-30/K-50s to provide the serial numbers on their camera's and the estimate can be much more accurate, just approach it like the German Tank Problem.

Pentax serial numbers for some items like lenses are not in sequence.

[HoutHans]

Pentax serial numbers for some items like lenses are not in sequence.

Aha, well, so much for serial numbers then (just when I thought Japanese companies were so organised....)

[UncleVanya]

Aha, well, so much for serial numbers then (just when I thought Japanese companies were so organised....)

They may be sequential inside ranges but it's quite unclear. There's some additional info in this thread, but beware the topic is a rabbit hole you can vanish in for a while:

Serial number and Date of Manufacture - PentaxForums.com

[HoutHans]

They may be sequential inside ranges but it's quite unclear. There's some additional info in this thread, but beware the topic is a rabbit hole you can vanish in for a while:

Serial number and Date of Manufacture - PentaxForums.com

Aha, so, there's probably a code in there, waiting to be found. I'm afraid I've got no time for rabbit holes right now. Barely time for photography.

[reh321]

So true, though part of my defense of the 30% figure was based on my experience fielding troubleshooting requests for the first wave of K-30 problems, having had a close friend's K-50 fail, and reading at least one account from a PF member where two K-50s in the same household were afflicted. The problems were definitely not on the same order as "K-3 sudden death" and had the hallmarks of a general issue.

In truth, nobody knows the true incidence, not even Ricoh. After all, very few of the effected cameras were still within warranty, resulting in little feedback to the QA processes. Similarly, little is known regarding the long-term efficacy of repairs.

Now...having taken a trip down the inevitable K-30/K-50 rabbit hole...how about the the K-70?


Steve

As I said in #9,

1. I believe it was worst in the K-30/50. Personally my K-30 has been afflicted; I saw the problem coming, and I obtained an FA-era lens so I could continue using it. These cameras are consumer grade, but having body control of the aperture fail does not put the camera out of commission.

2. The K-70 is much better than the K-30/50, but it is still consumer grade. I believe its aperture failure rate is below 10%, but it remains a real and present danger. Because of that I cannot purchase a K-70 for myself, nor do I recommend it to others - I purchased the more-nearly professional grade KP for myself and I do recommend it to others ..... and under the current price structure I will continue to do so ..... even at twice the price, I feel the security provided by construction quality of the KP is worth every penny.

[DrawsACircle]

As I said in #9,

2. The K-70 is much better than the K-30/50, but it is still consumer grade. I believe its aperture failure rate is below 10%, but it remains a real and present danger. Because of that I cannot purchase a K-70 for myself, nor do I recommend it to others - I purchased the more-nearly professional grade KP for myself and I do recommend it to others ..... and under the current price structure I will continue to do so ..... even at twice the price, I feel the security provided by construction quality of the KP is worth every penny.

I would claim it’s well below 1%. I have a 3yo. 15.000+ shuttercount K-70 and would not hesitate to buy it again, I will also, at any time, recommend it to other users.
Failure rates and weibüll analysis is a part of my everyday work, knowing/accepting all components have a failure rate, I consider the risk of my K-70 failing as being neglectable compared to what else could go wrong when using it.
Why well below 1%? number of sold units (not known but, hopefully, xx thousands) number of known failures?
No issue if you ask me, if it fails we even have a fix.

[reh321]

I would claim it’s well below 1%. I have a 3yo. 15.000+ shuttercount K-70 and would not hesitate to buy it again, I will also, at any time, recommend it to other users.
Failure rates and weibüll analysis is a part of my everyday work, knowing/accepting all components have a failure rate, I consider the risk of my K-70 failing as being neglectable compared to what else could go wrong when using it.
Why well below 1%? number of sold units (not known but, hopefully, xx thousands) number of known failures?
No issue if you ask me, if it fails we even have a fix.

There is a noticeable failure rate, below that of the K-30 but noticeable. Your K-70 may be fine, (*) but we get a steady trickle of visitors here {most of whom are unaware of the issue before they ask} asking about dark images, a trickle which does not occur for any other camera series.

Yes "we have a 'fix' " - we also have a 'fix' for heart circulation issues, but I hope you would not recommend an exercise-free lifetyle because we can 'fix' {via heart-bypass} problems that can occur.

BTW - unlike other camera problems, Dark Image Syndrome seems most likely to happen to cameras that are not heavily used, so your 5000 annual shutter-count is actually an argument in favor of your being one of those who do not have the problem.


(*) If the failure rate is 10%, we would expect the majority of K-70 cameras to not have that problem - that is what 10% means.

[stevebrot]

There is a noticeable failure rate, below that of the K-30 but noticeable.

There is a noticeable exaggeration here. A steady trickle?

I would compare aperture control issues with the K-70 to the "K-3 sudden death syndrome" and its implications for owners of the KP. You may think your KP is safe, but...


Steve

(...saw a few recent reports of aperture control problems on K10D and K20D...)

[reh321]

There is a noticeable exaggeration here. A steady trickle?

I would compare aperture control issues with the K-70 to the "K-3 sudden death syndrome" and its implications for owners of the KP. You may think your KP is safe, but...


Steve

(...saw a few recent reports of aperture control problems on K10D and K20D...)

Yes a "steady trickle" .... not a "steady stream" as was true of the K-30/50 ..... emphasis is on 'steady' - every so often we get another report. I know that no camera is invulnerable - there have already been several reports here of KP issues that Precision has refused to cover because of water issues, for example. I will stand by my statement that we get a report every so often of 'Dark Image Syndrome' issues with the K-70. I am personally not aware of any of those from the KP, and I personally believe that the difference in price which began last year at this time justifies purchasing a KP.

[Cerebum]

As I said in #9,

1. I believe it was worst in the K-30/50. Personally my K-30 has been afflicted; I saw the problem coming, and I obtained an FA-era lens so I could continue using it. These cameras are consumer grade, but having body control of the aperture fail does not put the camera out of commission.

2. The K-70 is much better than the K-30/50, but it is still consumer grade. I believe its aperture failure rate is below 10%, but it remains a real and present danger. Because of that I cannot purchase a K-70 for myself, nor do I recommend it to others - I purchased the more-nearly professional grade KP for myself and I do recommend it to others ..... and under the current price structure I will continue to do so ..... even at twice the price, I feel the security provided by construction quality of the KP is worth every penny.

Exactly the advice I gave to a potential pentaxian, although, he use to use leica film cameras, so, showing him my silver KP and silver Zeiss Tessar pretty much sealed the deal on its own.

[stevebrot]

emphasis is on 'steady' - every so often we get another report.

Eleven reports in 23 months.

As for the KP...it is "sudden death" that it may have inherited from the K-3. There are no reports regarding the KP, but given its heritage, it is hard to say. The K-3 "will not power up" (aka as "K-3 sudden death") thread has captured 15 reports in 31 months with a frequency as high as three per week and two in the last 30 days. There would have been 16 reports except that one camera spontaneously came back to life. Ricoh acknowledged in 2018 they were aware of a couple of cameras sent for repair of problems of this sort, but did not find any evidence of a pattern related to production. Despite Ricoh's claim, the evidence for a problem of sudden death with the K-3/K-3II remains at least as compelling as the steady trickle of K-70 aperture control problems; perhaps, more so because of Ricoh's denial of a problem.

Pentax k-3 will not power on - PentaxForums.com

Of course, there is also the KP mode dial issue.

In case it is not obvious, this post has a heavy injection of sarcasm. Are there problems with the KP? Apparently not a whole lot except for some mode dial issues. Will there be future problems such as with the "sudden death" K-3s? Is there a serious issue with K-3 sudden death, given the steady trickle of reports? I will let you know if it happens to me.


Steve