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12-12-2019, 08:17 AM - 2 Likes   #16
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Clickbait thread title - is the OP auditioning for PetaPixel?

Fuji seems to be doing well with the APS-C/MF tandem, yet there are still folks who insist that Fuji should create a FF camera. Part of it is people always want what they don't have, part of it is there is still a mentality that FF is the Mecca.

12-12-2019, 08:20 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Clickbait thread title - is the OP auditioning for PetaPixel?

Fuji seems to be doing well with the APS-C/MF tandem, yet there are still folks who insist that Fuji should create a FF camera. Part of it is people always want what they don't have, part of it is there is still a mentality that FF is the Mecca.
I think it is an appropriate title. And I'm sure it will generate posts as well.
12-12-2019, 08:21 AM   #18
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Full frame isn't the best compared to (...................).

That's just another way of saying every format has it's disadvantages and it finally comes down to "I like my camera for what it does". That's the reason I like my K-1 and wouldn't consider any other format (well, I might consider something else if I had the time and money). But another person might have a varying list of desires and consider a different format better for whatever reasons. Not surprising.
12-12-2019, 08:49 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Clickbait thread title - is the OP auditioning for PetaPixel?
not at all.

---------- Post added 12-12-19 at 16:50 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
MF is too big
The X1D is small than a Pentax K1.

12-12-2019, 08:51 AM - 6 Likes   #20
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Well If I had to bludgeon someone with a camera to save my life, and had the option of a K-1 or K-3, I'd choose the K-1. So full frame is obviously better!
12-12-2019, 09:01 AM - 1 Like   #21
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Let's see. We have a budget of, say, $10000 for photography. That gets us a Pentaxian's wet dream unless they want several extreme telephoto lenses. K-1ii, D FA* 50, holy trinity, 150-450 and 77 LTD just because. It comes up to $9000.

For that money, one gets... the X1D with one prime.
12-12-2019, 09:01 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
As others have said, no format is best at everything.
The key thing to retain from my initial post is about the final usage of images.

So where are images used?
1) posted on the web, viewed on electronic displays, max. res. 4K.

2) magazines & photobooks, that's A4 and A3 size prints
3) posters 80 x 120 cm (32 x 48 inches) and larger

Lenses now are a lot better than lenses used 30 years ago on 24x36 film cameras.
Micro 4/3 and apsc deliver IQ like 24 x 36 film quality.
Medium format digital crop deliver IQ like medium format film era quality

Now let's look at enlargement capabilities:

1) and 2) , micro 4/3 is good enough, apsc is plenty good enough
3) medium format deliver great high quality posters, better than full frame

We should never lose sight of where images end-up being used.
Given how images are used, FF quality is an overkill for 1) & 2) image application
And FF is not match to MF for large posters.

Ricoh should stop the Pentax K1 line, and invest in both apsc and 645z.
The direction is already set by Fuji, get the 100Mp sensor into a 645 camera, or fit the 100Mp MF sensor of sony into a new Pentax 645 mirroless body with a new lens mount, sell it for $4000 it'll sell like Ricoh factory can't make enough of it.
12-12-2019, 09:07 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
not at all.
I'm just joking with you...

I am a little concerned that Ricoh hasn't done anything with the 645 system for a while.

12-12-2019, 09:09 AM   #24
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It's not only enlargement. M4/3 or even APS-C won't be capable of the low-light IQ the K-1 gets without significant downsampling. It depends a lot on what you shoot.
12-12-2019, 09:11 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
I am a little concerned that Ricoh hasn't done anything with the 645 system for a while.
Ricoh missed the MILC opportunity with FF, although one might say that the size gain advantage of FF MILC isn't much of a benefit vs FF DSLR, simply because there is range of camera size that best fit the hand.
However, moving MF to MILC bring back camera body to ideal ergonimics, so that's a good move.

---------- Post added 12-12-19 at 17:13 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
It's not only enlargement. M4/3 or even APS-C won't be capable of the low-light IQ the K-1 gets without significant downsampling. It depends a lot on what you shoot.
Of course, the boundaries between formats are blurred. Given that a phone is enough for A4 prints, I'd say that even micro 4/3 and apsc are still good enough for magazine prints even at high ISO.
12-12-2019, 09:45 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
or trillions in a lab setting
While the headlines claimed this these cameras don't shoot trillions of frames a second but when used to create a video give the impression. They are only good for taking what would be images of a mostly static unchanging scene. They are called streak cameras and here is a MIT write-up of one. There are all sorts of weird cameras some of which produce some rather interesting images or effects. Some day I will decide to go and finally make a large format digital camera out of an old flat bed scanner or get a scanner with a broken stepper motor and make a slit camera out of it.
12-12-2019, 09:54 AM - 6 Likes   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
We should never lose sight of where images end-up being used.
Given how images are used, FF quality is an overkill for 1) & 2) image application
And FF is not match to MF for large posters.
There's perhaps some truth in this. But aside from the destination media, reproduction size and purpose, there are technical and creative advantages and disadvantages to each format.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Ricoh should stop the Pentax K1 line, and invest in both apsc and 645z.
The direction is already set by Fuji, get the 100Mp sensor into a 645 camera, or fit the 100Mp MF sensor of sony into a new Pentax 645 mirroless body with a new lens mount, sell it for $4000 it'll sell like Ricoh factory can't make enough of it.
OK, I get it now - this is one of your "poke the dog with a stick" threads I missed that in your original post... My bad

Ricoh is already investing in APS-C with the forthcoming body. That's good news.

Stop the K-1 line and you take away the very thing that a large part of Pentax's dedicated fan base cried out for, and still clearly wants... a sub $2k full frame camera that remains backward compatible with just about every K-mount and M42 lens ever made, in the format for which they were intended.

As for medium format, I'm sure there would be folks who'd buy a Pentax 645 mirrorless body for $4k, but nothing like the number that would buy a K-1II replacement for $2k. Most amateurs just don't have $4k to spend on a body, much less the typically high prices for glass.

IMHO, Ricoh would be better off investing in - and accelerating - development of FF lenses. A lot of existing K-1 and K-1II users would like a wider range of modern glass. Give users what they want...

But, from this conversation, once more we see how subjective all of this is. FF isn't the best format for you to own. Actually, it's not the best format for me to own either. But a lot of Pentaxians clearly feel it's the best format for them to own. And whether they're correct about that or not is quite immaterial. What matters is, lots of folks want FF. Give users what they want

Last edited by BigMackCam; 12-12-2019 at 10:57 AM.
12-12-2019, 09:58 AM   #28
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It is difficult to base your opinion on sensor formats on burst speed and print resolution only.
What about total price, total weight, lens selection... why not ff and apsc, why not mf and mft... my film based medium format is miles behind in print resolution to my ff digital.
In Nikon land you Could find tons of arguments for ff and apsc...
12-12-2019, 10:08 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The X1D is small than a Pentax K1.
It's also a very different beast. Mirrorless with EVF rather than DSLR with OVF. No shutter mechanism; uses leaf shutter lenses (which have their idiosyncrasies); no image stabilisation; ... Different cameras for different purposes. But one might easily argue the K-1 is a better compromise for a wider range of photography. If versatility is one of the measurement criteria as to which is better, the full frame K-1 would win here...
12-12-2019, 10:14 AM - 2 Likes   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
It's also a very different beast. Mirrorless with EVF rather than DSLR with OVF. No shutter mechanism; uses leaf shutter lenses (which have their idiosyncrasies); no image stabilisation; ... Different cameras for different purposes. But one might easily argue the K-1 is a better compromise for a wider range of photography. If versatility is one of the measurement criteria as to which is better, the full frame K-1 would win here...
Not to mention that there are ff sensors that are higher resolution now pushing the boundary between FF and 645Z even narrower. (Low light notwithstanding).

Personally I would love to have a dedicated 8x10 massive digital sensor and a landscape lens or two but I have zero practical use for it.
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