... I probably don't have enough peers to notice, but I did experience pushback from a company I work with. We do real estate listings, something I've specialized in for 15 years (ironically, transitioning from Sony TO Pentax). I got in a bit of hot water when I mentioned on an internal company forum that I seldom used tripods for my interior work. After thousands of photos, I can't remember my last shaky photo. But word came down from the top that all photos must be done on tripods, and in manual focus, because some photogs were having focus problems. None of these peers have a stabilized ultrawide zoom, except for a few Fuji users, of course. I'll go on as I have been, but I'm feeling a little bit weighed down by the weaknesses of other cameras I don't even own, or want to own....

It's a much more general problem, one that I refer to as "stupidity".
All my life, I've had to deal with the humans, who are incapable of imagining the probable and natural consequences of their own acts, and who, believing that they, themselves, are the crowns of creation, knowing all things, and incapable of error, come to really idiotic conclusions. Think how Copernicus and Michael Servetus must have felt.

[Wheatfield]

Come on, the only thing needed to screw FD mount users was to decide on a longer flange distance.

Meanwhile, to screw EF users it will take 4 things, of which one is probably inevitable (no bodies, if they decide they won't support the EF mount), another one will probably take longer (when did Pentax stop making the M42 adapter?), and the third and fourth are both wild conjecture and completely counter productive, not to mention that it would be the first time any camera manufacturer ever does something of the sort. Canon had a comparatively smaller piece of the cake with FD, and it was a technical challenge to bring the mount "up to standards" which meant it made *sense* to risk angering their customers and slam the table with something that was, technologically, leaps ahead of the competition.
Today, they have a large enough user base that they don't want to obsolete all of them.

I know the FD thing was a big deal 30 years ago, but it was even understandable and not even the only such thing to happen. Olympus killed their OM mount, Minolta killed the SR mount, Nikon kept crippling their lower end models. Even Pentax killed the 110, 67 and (more or less) Q mounts.

Actually, all it will take is dropping the EF mount and coding the firmware in the new mount cameras to not accept EF lenses.
Olympus didn't kill the OM mount, they killed the camera side of their business entirely, not quite the same thing, and was done due to the brand simply not selling enough product. This, BTW, is why Pentax stopped making 110 cameras & lenses as well as Q and 6x7 equipment. My understanding is that the SR mount lenses would work on MD mount cameras with a few exceptions, so while they dropped the mount, they didn't abandon those users. Minolta maintained the MD mount until they were bought by Konica, who killed it, Nikon has maintained compatibility with their full spectrum of lenses, albeit as a feature on the higher end cameras.
So far, Pentax has just about the best track record in the business in this regard, but even they tried to drop compatibility with non A series lenses, hence the green button metering kludge that was introduced in the first firmware update on the *istD due to the well deserved slathering from the customer base.

What Canon did was to tell their customers that they would be supported into the future, and then put the T90 (more or less an EOS 650 with an FD mount) out there as evidence of intent and within a couple of years dropped support entirely for FD cameras. A friend of mine had a T90 which stopped tripping the flash a couple of years after he had bought it, and about a year after the warranty expired. All that was wrong with it was the camera would no longer fire the flash, everything else worked. He sent it to Canon Canada for repair, they sent him back a disassembled camera with a note that it wasn't repairable and would he like a deal on an EOS.
He bought a Nikon and sold all of his Canon lenses.
Canon did it once, I don't think they will have any qualms about doing it again. It depends on if they decide they want to sell new lenses for their new mirrorless cameras or not.
I bet they want to sell lenses.

[Serkevan]

Actually, all it will take is dropping the EF mount and coding the firmware in the new mount cameras to not accept EF lenses.

Eh, one could argue that they could have killed support for third party lenses any day of the last 30 years, too. After all, they have been locking counterfeit batteries for a while now.

Olympus didn't kill the OM mount, they killed the camera side of their business entirely, not quite the same thing, and was done due to the brand simply not selling enough product.

Yes, but when they returned to the business, they introduced a completely different mount and sensor size, which in turn proceeded to be phased out in less than a decade to go mirrorless (which is another can of worms; they killed their DSLRs completely. At least Canon is still producing all the EF bodies and has released several lately). It's also kinda similar to what Sony did with the Minolta A mount... the moment they got a decent lineup for the E mount the A-mount was done and dead. At least they made a monster camera as a swan song for their users.

My understanding is that the SR mount lenses would work on MD mount cameras with a few exceptions, so while they dropped the mount, they didn't abandon those users. Minolta maintained the MD mount until they were bought by Konica, who killed it, Nikon has maintained compatibility with their full spectrum of lenses, albeit as a feature on the higher end cameras.

No, the SR mount (manual focus only) has 1 mm shorter flange distance than the A mount (AF lenses), so no infinity focus. They actually pulled the "screw manual focus lens users" about two years (February 1985) before Canon did (March 1987). From Wikipedia:

[...]Minolta introduced a new lens mount, the A system, breaking compatibility with its earlier manual-focus lenses in the MC and MD system.

So far, Pentax has just about the best track record in the business in this regard, but even they tried to drop compatibility with non A series lenses, hence the green button metering kludge that was introduced in the first firmware update on the *istD due to the well deserved slathering from the customer base.

Completely agreed! I wish they'd bring back the coupler, but I don't think they ever will... they might think we will all be using K and M lenses

What Canon did was to tell their customers that they would be supported into the future, and then put the T90 (more or less an EOS 650 with an FD mount) out there as evidence of intent and within a couple of years dropped support entirely for FD cameras. A friend of mine had a T90 which stopped tripping the flash a couple of years after he had bought it, and about a year after the warranty expired. All that was wrong with it was the camera would no longer fire the flash, everything else worked. He sent it to Canon Canada for repair, they sent him back a disassembled camera with a note that it wasn't repairable and would he like a deal on an EOS.
He bought a Nikon and sold all of his Canon lenses.
Canon did it once, I don't think they will have any qualms about doing it again. It depends on if they decide they want to sell new lenses for their new mirrorless cameras or not.
I bet they want to sell lenses.

Then the problem was not that they made the EF mount, but how they handled it, which is a completely different story. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that dropping the FD like a hot potato for the EF system was an anti-consumer move. I just don't think that they will do the same now, or that others will be "above it", for the simple reason it makes no sense in the current situation. In the future, we will see I guess... no one would be mad if a company (coughs in Samsung) pulled out completely because of monetary reasons, or if they "just" dropped a format (as per 110 system, 67 system, OM system), even if the practical effect on users is exactly the same.

[Wheatfield]

No, the SR mount (manual focus only) has 1 mm shorter flange distance than the A mount (AF lenses), so no infinity focus. They actually pulled the "screw manual focus lens users" about two years (February 1985) before Canon did (March 1987). From Wikipedia:

Your link tells the truth about the Maxxum system, but for the purpose of this discussion, there is a major lie of omission, in that it doesn't speak to the MD mount other than saying the Maxxum mount was new.
Minolta marketed the MD mount in conjunction to the A mount until the company was taken over by Konica. The Maxxum mount was introduced in 1985, and until 2003 when the company was bought by Konica, you could still buy the X-370 and X700 as new cameras as well as the entire selection of MD lenses. Minolta stopped development on the MD line when the Maxxum was introduced, but they did not abandon it.

Completely agreed! I wish they'd bring back the coupler, but I don't think they ever will... they might think we will all be using K and M lenses

Nope, the coupler is gone, never to return. Pentax also wants to sell lenses.

Then the problem was not that they made the EF mount, but how they handled it, which is a completely different story. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that dropping the FD like a hot potato for the EF system was an anti-consumer move. I just don't think that they will do the same now, or that others will be "above it", for the simple reason it makes no sense in the current situation. In the future, we will see I guess... no one would be mad if a company (coughs in Samsung) pulled out completely because of monetary reasons, or if they "just" dropped a format (as per 110 system, 67 system, OM system), even if the practical effect on users is exactly the same.

Time will tell. Frankly, I don't trust Canon to not do it again.

[Serkevan]

Your link tells the truth about the Maxxum system, but for the purpose of this discussion, there is a major lie of omission, in that it doesn't speak to the MD mount other than saying the Maxxum mount was new.
Minolta marketed the MD mount in conjunction to the A mount until the company was taken over by Konica. The Maxxum mount was introduced in 1985, and until 2003 when the company was bought by Konica, you could still buy the X-370 and X700 as new cameras as well as the entire selection of MD lenses. Minolta stopped development on the MD line when the Maxxum was introduced, but they did not abandon it.

Huh, I had no idea that they kept selling the SR line. I stand totally corrected then

[LaurenOE]

First...I have to laugh. With a Novoflex adaper, he could continue to use his Pentax glass on Sony mirror less...especially for video, like I do. APS-C is just about Super 35mm - which is what my Sony FS5 and FS7 are. Pentax DA glass is PERFECT because of the nature of the step-less aperture for video. Second, there is no better field camera out there than Pentax. Nothing comes close. Third, peer pressure? To switch tools? If a tool works, use it. Who cares what others think. Peer pressure is something made up. Be strong, don't succumb.

[Fluegel]

" Be strong don't succumb "

Exactly.

I am used to cycling against the wind.
Nobody tells me what to do.
The choice for Pentax digital many years ago was made after careful consideration.
Never regretted that choice. I dislike heaps of plastic, Pentax builds solid cameras.
Up till now mostly with metal mountings for bodies and lenses.
Regretfully some economy series lenses now have plastic bayonets.

[normhead]

Regretfully some economy series lenses now have plastic bayonets.

According to lens rentals.com the only difference between plastic and metal is if you damage a lens with a metal mount, the metal mounts are much more costly to repair. They usually take the part they are attached to with them.

[Serkevan]

" Be strong don't succumb "

Exactly.

I am used to cycling against the wind.
Nobody tells me what to do.
The choice for Pentax digital many years ago was made after careful consideration.
Never regretted that choice. I dislike heaps of plastic, Pentax builds solid cameras.
Up till now mostly with metal mountings for bodies and lenses.
Regretfully some economy series lenses now have plastic bayonets.

"Plastic" and "Metal" are unfortunately loaded terms despite having no technical meaning whatsoever. It all depends on the "which": good plastic stomps bad metal. Not only that, things depend a lot on the intended use.


I think I mentioned it elsewhere, but "built like a tank" is now extremely ironic - as tanks are made out of heavily engineered composites (mostly ceramics and plastics), with metal being just a small part of it.

[Wheatfield]

First...I have to laugh. With a Novoflex adaper, he could continue to use his Pentax glass on Sony mirror less...especially for video, like I do. APS-C is just about Super 35mm - which is what my Sony FS5 and FS7 are. Pentax DA glass is PERFECT because of the nature of the step-less aperture for video. Second, there is no better field camera out there than Pentax. Nothing comes close. Third, peer pressure? To switch tools? If a tool works, use it. Who cares what others think. Peer pressure is something made up. Be strong, don't succumb.

Listen to the peer pressure here, not there.

[jbmiller]

I came back to Pentax a year or so ago with the K-1 II. I do very-part-time pro work and have not had a single person comment on my brand since switching. I'll do groups of head shots (20-40) and no comments. Last time I tried to go to Pentax, I had the K20 trying to shoot my daughter dancing on stage in competitions-big mistake. But I just was at a soccer match with my niece a week ago at night using the Tamron 70-200 screw drive lens and I had no less keepers than when I had my Nikon. I want to be at an event with my WR lens on when it starts raining, then watch the others run for cover.

[ThorSanchez]

This weekend I met a young photographer specializing in adventure photography, which is a big thing here in Colorado. He was selling off his Pentax gear and switching to Sony. Others he worked with used Sony, and he needed compatibility with various accessories, plus he was getting more into video. But already he had regrets. The stabilization in the Sony didn't work as well, and weather sealing was a question mark. "I can't tell you how many other cameras I've seen lock up in bad conditions," he said, including Nikons and Canons.

Peer pressure is also a big thing everywhere. I probably don't have enough peers to notice, but I did experience pushback from a company I work with. We do real estate listings, something I've specialized in for 15 years (ironically, transitioning from Sony TO Pentax). I got in a bit of hot water when I mentioned on an internal company forum that I seldom used tripods for my interior work. After thousands of photos, I can't remember my last shaky photo. But word came down from the top that all photos must be done on tripods, and in manual focus, because some photogs were having focus problems. None of these peers have a stabilized ultrawide zoom, except for a few Fuji users, of course. I'll go on as I have been, but I'm feeling a little bit weighed down by the weaknesses of other cameras I don't even own, or want to own.

Does anybody else have similar stories to share?

In the end, this other guy's loss was my gain. I laid $350 cash on the table and wished him well, walking out with a black 31 Limited lens he no longer could use. That may be the best Pentax bargain I've ever landed!

Just yesterday I had a gang of Nikon thugs come up to me with AK-47s and big, heavy chains. The one guy was wearing a trench coat which he opened up a bit, revealing a bunch of D500s. Said they were in good condition, only $1000. The big guy said it was totally up to me to keep shooting Pentax, but it would be a shame if someone had to get hurt.


Don't even get me started on the Fuji Yakuza... My uncle went out with this old Canon point-and-shoot, now we haven't seen him in 12 days.

[MJKoski]

The story goes like this:

One day I went out in absolutely *beep* weather to shoot a rock on the beach. There were no other people there, just sea, wind and rain. I had a Pentax. End of story.

[BigMackCam]

Just yesterday I had a gang of Nikon thugs come up to me with AK-47s and big, heavy chains. The one guy was wearing a trench coat which he opened up a bit, revealing a bunch of D500s. Said they were in good condition, only $1000. The big guy said it was totally up to me to keep shooting Pentax, but it would be a shame if someone had to get hurt.


Don't even get me started on the Fuji Yakuza... My uncle went out with this old Canon point-and-shoot, now we haven't seen him in 12 days.

This post has made my day

Ricoh should call their forthcoming Pentax APS-C flagship the "K-47". That way, when someone asks what you shoot, you can say "A K-47"

[Serkevan]

This post has made my day

Ricoh should call their forthcoming Pentax APS-C flagship the "K-47". That way, when someone asks what you shoot, you can say "A K-47"

Well we already have a K-(mount-)77... I'm pretty sure it would sound similar enough