Have you experienced pressure to switch systems?

**Kerrowdown** · 03-14-2020, 04:05 AM

Originally posted by Wheatridger

Only in the sense the certain picture agencies will only entertain certain brands and specified cameras... so just run multiple systems.

As for the rest... always let the final image speak for its self.

Fluegel · 03-14-2020, 06:08 AM

Pressure? Impossible.

I chose Pentax digital many years ago.
Solid construction, metal mount for lenses, user friendly and last but not least the large selection of older and recent lenses that are suitable.
The lenses were the most important ground to choose Pentax. Lenses are the factor that influence IQ more than anything else.

Lord Lucan · 03-15-2020, 03:44 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by PDL

I attended a World Wide Scott Kelly photo walkabout a few years ago. The organizer knew almost everyone in the group that gathered and he said he didn't really need to ask, but what brand are you shooting? Mostly Canon and Nikon (he was a Canon guy) with a mild snide remark about Nikon. A Sony person, "they make OK sensors - HA!" and me shooting Pentax. "PEEENNNTAX????? Well, nothing more to be said there!!!". He never said a word to me during the whole walkabout

I am staggered by the rudeness described in some of these posts. I have never had anyone question my choice of brand either in a camera club or in the outside world. They would be on pretty shaky ground if they did as I am technical and know my stuff, including quite a lot about other brands. For example I have a rather low opinion of Sony (not the best constructed, and a consumer oriented company who played the Root Kit scam Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal - Wikipedia ), and not a very high one of Canon (they seem to hate their users), but would not dream of criticising one to its owners face. I would not criticise someone using a P&S on one of these "walkabouts" (which I'd never heard of before).

I think I would turn the tables on any criticism along the above lines; I do admire Nikon, but I think I'd say to a Nikon owner that a large portion of what he paid for was for their advertising; whereas Pentax don't advertise.

normhead · 03-15-2020, 06:29 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Lord Lucan

I think I would turn the tables on any criticism along the above lines; I do admire Nikon, but I think I'd say to a Nikon owner that a large portion of what he paid for was for their advertising; whereas Pentax don't advertise.

Amazing how many Pentax "enthusiasts" spit on a policy that saves them so much money.

**Serkevan** · 03-15-2020, 06:57 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by normhead

Amazing how many Pentax "enthusiasts" spit on a policy that saves them so much money.

Yeah - Pentax already suffers from smaller production runs (higher costs, typically), so not having advertisement allows for competitive pricing.

Heck, Pentax bodies are *the* best bang for your buck in IQ and features. Lenses are a closer match I think, at least compared to Canikon.

I mean, name a better DSLR than the K-1 or K-70 at the price point. That thing's a monster.

bsamcash · 03-15-2020, 07:08 AM

I recently switched to Sony. I wanted to move to full frame but Pentax's offerings weren't in my budget. The Sony a7II is half the price of the K-1 and it still allows me to use my Pentax lenses. Honestly, the image quality blows me away and I couldn't be happier.

Edit: And to add to this, I upgraded my wife from my old Pentax K-x to the Canon T6 (1300D outside US) when it recently went on sale. She wasn't invested in Pentax lenses like I am, and Canon has many offerings for dirt cheap. Build quality isn't great compared to Pentax, but she is very happy with the image quality.

normhead · 03-15-2020, 03:40 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by bsamcash

I recently switched to Sony. I wanted to move to full frame but Pentax's offerings weren't in my budget. The Sony a7II is half the price of the K-1 and it still allows me to use my Pentax lenses. Honestly, the image quality blows me away and I couldn't be happier.

Edit: And to add to this, I upgraded my wife from my old Pentax K-x to the Canon T6 (1300D outside US) when it recently went on sale. She wasn't invested in Pentax lenses like I am, and Canon has many offerings for dirt cheap. Build quality isn't great compared to Pentax, but she is very happy with the image quality.

I've never understood the logic in buying a 20-24 MP FF sensor.
The resolution is about the same as a K-P.

bsamcash · 03-15-2020, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by normhead

I've never understood the logic in buying a 20-24 MP FF sensor.
The resolution is about the same as a K-P.

That's exactly why. In my experience, for proper noise to resolution ratio, 24 is the sweet spot for full frame whereas 16 is the sweet spot for aps-c. You may disagree, but that's exactly where I like it.

**Serkevan** · 03-15-2020, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by bsamcash

That's exactly why. In my experience, for proper noise to resolution ratio, 24 is the sweet spot for full frame whereas 16 is the sweet spot for aps-c. You may disagree, but that's exactly where I like it.

That *is* true if you view both images at 100%, but that's not how one should look at the issue.

For a given print/display size (which is typically strongly downsampled), the technological level of the sensor has a stronger influence, to the point where the result can be completely in favour of a newer, higher-resolution sensor. The K-1 has very little noise (and it's mostly luminance, chroma noise is barely present, so it doesn't even look too bad), you can push it until ISO 12800 without breaking a sweat. It smokes the 20 MP 6D in terms of shadow noise.

Don't get me wrong, 24 MP is plenty of them, more than what most people will ever need, but it's not necessarily better. I would be happy with a 24 MP K-1, but that's just because the files would be smaller and the sorry excuse for optimization in Lightroom wouldn't be pushed nearly as much

bsamcash · 03-15-2020, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Serkevan

The K-1 has very little noise (and it's mostly luminance, chroma noise is barely present, so it doesn't even look too bad), you can push it until ISO 12800 without breaking a sweat. It smokes the 20 MP 6D in terms of shadow noise.

I don't doubt the K-1 has a much better sensor than the a7II. I've heard it referred to as a mediam format killer. I was just replying to normhead's confusion as to why anyone would buy a 24 MP full frame.

**Serkevan** · 03-15-2020, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by bsamcash

I don't doubt the K-1 has a much better sensor than the a7II. I've heard it referred to as a mediam format killer. I was just replying to normhead's confusion as to why anyone would buy a 24 MP full frame.

I know, it's just that I've heard the argument a lot and, while it's generally true that larger pixels means lower noise, I would say that it's more dependent on sensor technology. Still, I, personally, would put the megapickle count very low in the list of "things to look for in a camera". I'm glad you're enjoying the Sony!

timb64 · 03-15-2020, 05:20 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by normhead

I've never understood the logic in buying a 20-24 MP FF sensor.
The resolution is about the same as a K-P.

Have a 14,000th like Norm!

Congrats

normhead · 03-15-2020, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by timb64

Have a 14,000th like Norm!

Congrats

Thanks Tim.... I think Kerrodown gave me my 13th.. it's getting to be a thing.

**Rondec** · 03-16-2020, 02:31 AM - **1 Like**

The only way to judge sensors is to compare images at the same viewing/printing size. The reality is that if you do that, the noise averages out on sensors with larger megapixels and they don't end up looking worse. That's true for plenty of cameras, not just the K-1, but ones like the D850 and A7r II, as well.

The biggest negative to lots of megapixels is just that it takes more processing power and storage to work with the files, but I think most of us have that to spare. It is interesting that the K5 sensor (16 megapixels) upscaled is essentially a K-1 (or D800/D810) sensor.

**bobbotron** · 03-16-2020, 05:30 AM - **1 Like**

I find it incredibly tacky to rag on someone else's gear. This reflects poorly on them, not you.

That said, I could see if you're in a pro setting, it could make sense to all be on the same system if you're sharing flash gear perhaps? Even then, I did a shoot a while ago, I was on Pentax, other guy was on Canon, all came out great.

03-15-2020, 03:44 AM - 3 Likes	#78
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,975	Originally posted by PDL I attended a World Wide Scott Kelly photo walkabout a few years ago. The organizer knew almost everyone in the group that gathered and he said he didn't really need to ask, but what brand are you shooting? Mostly Canon and Nikon (he was a Canon guy) with a mild snide remark about Nikon. A Sony person, "they make OK sensors - HA!" and me shooting Pentax. "PEEENNNTAX????? Well, nothing more to be said there!!!". He never said a word to me during the whole walkabout I am staggered by the rudeness described in some of these posts. I have never had anyone question my choice of brand either in a camera club or in the outside world. They would be on pretty shaky ground if they did as I am technical and know my stuff, including quite a lot about other brands. For example I have a rather low opinion of Sony (not the best constructed, and a consumer oriented company who played the Root Kit scam Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal - Wikipedia ), and not a very high one of Canon (they seem to hate their users), but would not dream of criticising one to its owners face. I would not criticise someone using a P&S on one of these "walkabouts" (which I'd never heard of before). I think I would turn the tables on any criticism along the above lines; I do admire Nikon, but I think I'd say to a Nikon owner that a large portion of what he paid for was for their advertising; whereas Pentax don't advertise. Last edited by Lord Lucan; 03-15-2020 at 06:22 AM. Reason: Added link, tpyo

03-15-2020, 07:08 AM	#81
bsamcash Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cupertino, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 391	I recently switched to Sony. I wanted to move to full frame but Pentax's offerings weren't in my budget. The Sony a7II is half the price of the K-1 and it still allows me to use my Pentax lenses. Honestly, the image quality blows me away and I couldn't be happier. Edit: And to add to this, I upgraded my wife from my old Pentax K-x to the Canon T6 (1300D outside US) when it recently went on sale. She wasn't invested in Pentax lenses like I am, and Canon has many offerings for dirt cheap. Build quality isn't great compared to Pentax, but she is very happy with the image quality. Last edited by bsamcash; 03-15-2020 at 07:13 AM.

03-15-2020, 07:18 PM	#88
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by timb64 Have a 14,000th like Norm! Congrats Thanks Tim.... I think Kerrodown gave me my 13th.. it's getting to be a thing. Last edited by MarkJerling; 03-16-2020 at 05:23 PM.

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03-14-2020, 04:05 AM	#76
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,835	Originally posted by Wheatridger Have you experienced pressure to switch systems? Only in the sense the certain picture agencies will only entertain certain brands and specified cameras... so just run multiple systems. As for the rest... always let the final image speak for its self.

03-14-2020, 06:08 AM	#77
Fluegel Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 470	Pressure? Impossible. I chose Pentax digital many years ago. Solid construction, metal mount for lenses, user friendly and last but not least the large selection of older and recent lenses that are suitable. The lenses were the most important ground to choose Pentax. Lenses are the factor that influence IQ more than anything else.

03-15-2020, 06:29 AM - 3 Likes	#79
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Lord Lucan I think I would turn the tables on any criticism along the above lines; I do admire Nikon, but I think I'd say to a Nikon owner that a large portion of what he paid for was for their advertising; whereas Pentax don't advertise. Amazing how many Pentax "enthusiasts" spit on a policy that saves them so much money.

03-15-2020, 06:57 AM - 2 Likes	#80
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by normhead Amazing how many Pentax "enthusiasts" spit on a policy that saves them so much money. Yeah - Pentax already suffers from smaller production runs (higher costs, typically), so not having advertisement allows for competitive pricing. Heck, Pentax bodies are the best bang for your buck in IQ and features. Lenses are a closer match I think, at least compared to Canikon. I mean, name a better DSLR than the K-1 or K-70 at the price point. That thing's a monster.

03-15-2020, 03:40 PM - 3 Likes	#82
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by bsamcash I recently switched to Sony. I wanted to move to full frame but Pentax's offerings weren't in my budget. The Sony a7II is half the price of the K-1 and it still allows me to use my Pentax lenses. Honestly, the image quality blows me away and I couldn't be happier. Edit: And to add to this, I upgraded my wife from my old Pentax K-x to the Canon T6 (1300D outside US) when it recently went on sale. She wasn't invested in Pentax lenses like I am, and Canon has many offerings for dirt cheap. Build quality isn't great compared to Pentax, but she is very happy with the image quality. I've never understood the logic in buying a 20-24 MP FF sensor. The resolution is about the same as a K-P.

03-15-2020, 03:49 PM	#83
bsamcash Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cupertino, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 391	Originally posted by normhead I've never understood the logic in buying a 20-24 MP FF sensor. The resolution is about the same as a K-P. That's exactly why. In my experience, for proper noise to resolution ratio, 24 is the sweet spot for full frame whereas 16 is the sweet spot for aps-c. You may disagree, but that's exactly where I like it.

03-15-2020, 04:03 PM	#84
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by bsamcash That's exactly why. In my experience, for proper noise to resolution ratio, 24 is the sweet spot for full frame whereas 16 is the sweet spot for aps-c. You may disagree, but that's exactly where I like it. That is true if you view both images at 100%, but that's not how one should look at the issue. For a given print/display size (which is typically strongly downsampled), the technological level of the sensor has a stronger influence, to the point where the result can be completely in favour of a newer, higher-resolution sensor. The K-1 has very little noise (and it's mostly luminance, chroma noise is barely present, so it doesn't even look too bad), you can push it until ISO 12800 without breaking a sweat. It *smokes* the 20 MP 6D in terms of shadow noise. Don't get me wrong, 24 MP is plenty of them, more than what most people will ever need, but it's not necessarily better. I would be happy with a 24 MP K-1, but that's just because the files would be smaller and the sorry excuse for optimization in Lightroom wouldn't be pushed nearly as much

03-15-2020, 04:12 PM	#85
bsamcash Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cupertino, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 391	Originally posted by Serkevan The K-1 has very little noise (and it's mostly luminance, chroma noise is barely present, so it doesn't even look too bad), you can push it until ISO 12800 without breaking a sweat. It *smokes* the 20 MP 6D in terms of shadow noise. I don't doubt the K-1 has a much better sensor than the a7II. I've heard it referred to as a mediam format killer. I was just replying to normhead's confusion as to why anyone would buy a 24 MP full frame.

03-15-2020, 04:38 PM	#86
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by bsamcash I don't doubt the K-1 has a much better sensor than the a7II. I've heard it referred to as a mediam format killer. I was just replying to normhead's confusion as to why anyone would buy a 24 MP full frame. I know, it's just that I've heard the argument a lot and, while it's generally true that larger pixels means lower noise, I would say that it's more dependent on sensor technology. Still, I, personally, would put the megapickle count very low in the list of "things to look for in a camera". I'm glad you're enjoying the Sony!

03-15-2020, 05:20 PM - 1 Like	#87
timb64 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: /Situation : Doing my best to avoid idiots! Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,514	Originally posted by normhead I've never understood the logic in buying a 20-24 MP FF sensor. The resolution is about the same as a K-P. Have a 14,000th like Norm! Congrats

03-16-2020, 02:31 AM - 1 Like	#89
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	The only way to judge sensors is to compare images at the same viewing/printing size. The reality is that if you do that, the noise averages out on sensors with larger megapixels and they don't end up looking worse. That's true for plenty of cameras, not just the K-1, but ones like the D850 and A7r II, as well. The biggest negative to lots of megapixels is just that it takes more processing power and storage to work with the files, but I think most of us have that to spare. It is interesting that the K5 sensor (16 megapixels) upscaled is essentially a K-1 (or D800/D810) sensor.

03-16-2020, 05:30 AM - 1 Like	#90
bobbotron Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Ottawa, ON Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,349	I find it incredibly tacky to rag on someone else's gear. This reflects poorly on them, not you. That said, I could see if you're in a pro setting, it could make sense to all be on the same system if you're sharing flash gear perhaps? Even then, I did a shoot a while ago, I was on Pentax, other guy was on Canon, all came out great.