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02-11-2020, 12:05 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by WorksAsIntended Quote
This of course is true. However, him doing his very own personal speculations ("We hope it has at leat a moveable screen") when in representative position for Ricoh shows he simply does not know anything and this is, quite frankly, very unprofessional and in some companies you would get in a lot of trouble with stuff like this.


(Edit: Unprofessional in terms of the representative to state the speculations, not Pentax not giving him information which of corse is perfectly fine).


Imagine the k_new having no moveable screen and this phrase by a Pentax representative out in the world, a complete pr desaster!

---------- Post added 02-11-20 at 03:02 AM ----------





There is a very substantial difference between music and photography: A photography is a measurement. The only limitation is the amount of photons and statistical distribution of those over time. There is no law of physics that forces big lenses to be the only solution. OSA | General formula for bi-aspheric singlet lens design free of spherical aberration
With the now available algebraic solution it is possible to find new solutions for lenses in a much more compact design. Of course there are still other effects going on, but this is a major step.

We "only" need to be able to build those aspherical elements in high quality now. There is still a lot to do, but there is no physical limitation.

When it comes to DOF and such, I am convinced that in a few decades software will make the need of such obsolete. Even now the smartphone cameras are able to produce something a untrained eye can not distinguis. With a well trained neural network and a good algorithm combination it may be possible to manipulte pictures in a way we currently dream of when using our cameras.


Listening to music is not a measurement, but a generator at work. There a lot more of physical limitations are happening. The modes of air vibration need a specific amount of energy and, this is the key part why small systems will never be able to deliver the same, energy distribution.


From a users perspective hifi and photography are currently quite comparable, from a physicist point of view not at all.
From my point of view, there are laws of physics involved with everything. Everything has limitations. But what do I know regarding lens design? Very little. Perhaps it is within possibility to design a FF equivalent zoom lens of 4-800mm f/1.2 to f/50 constant aperture with zero diffraction, or vignetting, the size of a shirt button, that can deliver distortion-free, razor sharp images, free from flair or field curvature, and can be implanted into a phone for manipulation. But quality wise, the results would still look great if blown up on a large high-def TV screen.

My observation has been, among young people especially, who have good eyesight and hearing but are taking pictures with their phones of the quality only necessary to look good on another phone. That is the only way they are viewed, and with small file sizes to be sent and shared via the internet. Higher quality has nothing to do with their needs. The photo is thus saved as a file by the photographer and the recipient. It would most likely look like crap if put on a sizable screen, even a good one of 20 inches, but so what? It looks fine on a phone screen. Convenience is selling, and threatens to make good cameras nearly obsolete, the speciality tools of professional photographers.

The same kind of thing has been going on to some degree with music reproduction.

02-11-2020, 12:21 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
From my point of view, there are laws of physics involved with everything. Everything has limitations. But what do I know regarding lens design? Very little. Perhaps it is within possibility to design a FF equivalent zoom lens of 4-800mm f/1.2 to f/50 constant aperture with zero diffraction, or vignetting, the size of a shirt button, that can deliver distortion-free, razor sharp images, free from flair or field curvature, and can be implanted into a phone for manipulation. But quality wise, the results would still look great if blown up on a large high-def TV screen.

My observation has been, among young people especially, who have good eyesight and hearing but are taking pictures with their phones of the quality only necessary to look good on another phone. That is the only way they are viewed, and with small file sizes to be sent and shared via the internet. Higher quality has nothing to do with their needs. The photo is thus saved as a file by the photographer and the recipient. It would most likely look like crap if put on a sizable screen, even a good one of 20 inches, but so what? It looks fine on a phone screen. Convenience is selling, and threatens to make good cameras nearly obsolete, the speciality tools of professional photographers.

The same kind of thing has been going on to some degree with music reproduction.
Ok, I put it badly. Of course there is a physical limitation, but it is far from the current state, very far.
02-11-2020, 04:15 PM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by WorksAsIntended Quote
This of course is true. However, him doing his very own personal speculations ("We hope it has at leat a moveable screen") when in representative position for Ricoh shows he simply does not know anything and this is, quite frankly, very unprofessional and in some companies you would get in a lot of trouble with stuff like this.


(Edit: Unprofessional in terms of the representative to state the speculations, not Pentax not giving him information which of corse is perfectly fine).


Imagine the k_new having no moveable screen and this phrase by a Pentax representative out in the world, a complete pr desaster!
I seriously doubt someone sent out would be making any remarks that are "unprofessional", but rather are working within specific limitations given them:

1) Confirm nothing.
2) Hint at one or two things, obliquely.

Pentax/Ricoh has an unconventional "publicity" approach. While many of us may not agree with it, they do keep a tight wrap (who expected the new lens to be available for purchase so fast?) and like surprises.

I won't pretend to understand their thinking, but it is what it is. It is what it is ... and other speculation is pretty much of no value.
02-11-2020, 04:33 PM - 2 Likes   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by yucatanPentax Quote
It is what it is ... and other speculation is pretty much of no value.
Fixed that for you

But, yes, I agree wholeheartedly...

02-12-2020, 03:53 AM   #50
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You can argue both ways. Certainly having leaks a long time ahead of a product's release tend to spoil the product's actual release. By the time it actually arrives expectations are often higher than what can be delivered. At the same time, at least letting Pentaxians know that there are things being worked on is important to keep them from heading to greener pastures.

Overall, Pentax doesn't advertise. They just don't, at least not outside of Japan. It probably helps them keep prices down. Regardless, it is something that has been complained about for a long time. Right now, though, there probably isn't much reason to advertise till the new camera hits the streets.
02-16-2020, 07:25 PM - 1 Like   #51
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People have been couting Pentax out since I bout my K1000 decades ago
02-21-2020, 04:25 PM - 1 Like   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
People have been couting Pentax out since I bout my K1000 decades ago
I would say Pentax did have a better reputation a few decades ago but the survival of the brand has proven there are many supporters, buyers, users and afficionados of Pentax (Ricoh) cameras. Numerous people have berated, and ridiculed me for using Pentax, but I smile and say when something works you stay with it. When I bought my first SLR in 1970, I chose one of the "underdog" cameras (Petri) and used it for decades. After that company quit the camera business, I switched to Pentax with a K1000SE and have been faithful since. I still have my Petri, which functions perfectly and my first Pentax also functioning perfectly.
03-15-2020, 03:16 AM   #53
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There will always be a market for top end cameras, and in this context APS, FF and MF cameras are top end. I believe that the budget end of those (things like the Canon EOS 2000D) will disappear just as P&S have. For a long time yet, few people are going to be happy if their wedding photographer turns up with a phone camera.

We cannot draw conclusions about smart phones taking over everything all the while they are a fashion statement. Fashions pass, and smart phones will settle down to a functional role when people stop bragging about all the things they can do, and only then will the future of cameras as we know them be clarified. I am sure that the market for APS, FF and MF cameras wil shrink further, and there may be some casualties, but they will not go away.

In fact I suspect Sony might be the first to go despite current high sales. Their history is consumer electronics so they could be quick to throw their resources in a different direction - just as quickly as they were to throw them in the direction of DSLRs during the sales boom of the early 2000's.

04-07-2020, 04:44 AM   #54
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Pentax is not dead, it's just in sleep mode, snoring.
04-07-2020, 04:51 AM - 2 Likes   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Pentax is not dead, it's just in sleep mode, snoring.
I'd say it's in the same mode as every other photographic equipment manufacturer right now. Trying to manage finances, personnel, production etc. in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic, and figuring out the best way forward in light of all the lost business. We'll have to wait until all this is over to see if there's any lasting impact on Pentax and other brands... I suspect there will be.
04-07-2020, 06:31 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
From my point of view, there are laws of physics involved with everything. Everything has limitations. But what do I know regarding lens design? Very little. Perhaps it is within possibility to design a FF equivalent zoom lens of 4-800mm f/1.2 to f/50 constant aperture with zero diffraction, or vignetting, the size of a shirt button, that can deliver distortion-free, razor sharp images, free from flair or field curvature, and can be implanted into a phone for manipulation. But quality wise, the results would still look great if blown up on a large high-def TV screen.

My observation has been, among young people especially, who have good eyesight and hearing but are taking pictures with their phones of the quality only necessary to look good on another phone. That is the only way they are viewed, and with small file sizes to be sent and shared via the internet. Higher quality has nothing to do with their needs. The photo is thus saved as a file by the photographer and the recipient. It would most likely look like crap if put on a sizable screen, even a good one of 20 inches, but so what? It looks fine on a phone screen. Convenience is selling, and threatens to make good cameras nearly obsolete, the speciality tools of professional photographers.

The same kind of thing has been going on to some degree with music reproduction.
Very well written.
People buy what they need, and sometimes they purchase more than what they need. Photos taken on a phone work for a large part of the population because the maximum screen size they are viewing is likely not more than 14-15" and they are not printing onto a large enlargement size. And that is what they need.

Hopefully one purchases a FF Pentax or APS size DSLR so that it meets ones needs. In Pentax that is probably more true because owners would not pick the Pentax brand unless they knew something about it and did some online research (no sales person is going to help you). But take a Canon DSLR or a Sony high end bridge camera, and the sales reps will likely not care what the amateur is going to do with it (based on what I hear sales staff tell customers in some of the stores).

Photography, music....health care are similar in that respect. When I research, discuss with reps, and then purchase digital cameras for use in healthcare, I am trying to match up my needs with what is out there. But if I went based on the reps alone...I may not be very pleased with my choice later on.

I am beginning to feel very old...because...many years ago, the camera store reps actually asked you several questions to make sure you were purchasing what you needed. That way you would be back in the future to purchase another item. Due to declining sales, digital photography being much more forgivable than the days of film/developing/enlarging, internet purchasing, the only one that is concerned is the buyer.
04-07-2020, 06:53 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by VSTAR Quote
I am beginning to feel very old...because...many years ago, the camera store reps actually asked you several questions to make sure you were purchasing what you needed. That way you would be back in the future to purchase another item. Due to declining sales, digital photography being much more forgivable than the days of film/developing/enlarging, internet purchasing, the only one that is concerned is the buyer.
The local camera shops in Ottawa no longer stock Pentax gear on the shelf (it can be 'special ordered'), so they tend to favour other brands.

However, my local store -- a branch of Canada's largest chain, Henry's -- seems to be pretty good at fleshing out what prospective customers need. I've overheard several conversations in which staff asked quite a few questions to narrow down the options. In one instance, the clerk dissuaded the customer away from a more expensive kit that the customer thought they needed, and recommended a camera and a couple of lenses that would meet the needs quite well. Bravo.

- Craig
04-07-2020, 09:04 PM   #58
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This is only tangentiallly related to the subject, but does anybody know the demographics of current art museum attendees? If the younger generations are only interested in smart phone images, does that mean they have no wish to visit the Louvre?
04-08-2020, 03:59 AM   #59
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I was in France last July 19 to August 18, 2020. I was in Louvre and yes, there were lots of cameras. I saw mostly entry level Nikons and Canons. But all cameras were outgunned by smartphones. My observation is that younger people want portability. They don't care how beautiful is the sound of the stereo as they would rather sit in their rooms with their eyes stuck on their cellphones and earphones on their ears. Give them another portable stereo and it stays at home. Why? 1 gadget has it all. Their phone is a phone, a TV, a camera and a computer. Pictures taken are also immediately posted on Instagram and Facebook. That's what's selling now. My kids seldom watch TV. Their world revolves in Netflix, YouTube, Tik Tok and Facebook. I don't even know what's coming next.
04-09-2020, 05:24 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by camera_nut Quote
Pentax is NOT dead
I sincerely hope so... don't think my "Ladies" would take to kindly to shortened life expectancy.
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