[Paul the Sunman]

My son borrowed my K1 + DFA 15-30 + DFA 28-105 + DFA* 70-200 a couple of years ago for an aerial survey of logging in Victoria's Central Highlands. This is different from shooting a city I guess; he probably was flying lower. Anyway, for what it's worth, his most used lens was the 28-105, mostly towards the wide end (28-40ish), with a few longer (70 or 80mm). The 70-200 didn't get much use, and when it did, it was mostly at 70mm where the 28-105 would have sufficed.

The 15-30 also got reasonable use, but mostly over 20mm.

[ismaelg]

In my little experience with aerial photography (only a couple of times and on small airplanes, not helicopters) you want your sharpest and fastest lens with the best hi ISO body you have. Vibration and motion blur are your biggest concerns, especially in a helicopter.
Hyperfocal focusing and go for it!

Thanks,

[UncleVanya]

The Fuji 23 is like a 35mm in terms of field of view. I don't see it as a compelling choice over the zoom in the 645z or a short telephoto on the k1. Also as mentioned an ovf is probably a real blessing is this situation.

[robgski]

I haven't yet used the Photographers Ephemeris app, but it would give you ideas of exactly where the sun and moon would be in relAtion to your subjects at any rime of day, might be worth a try

[leonine]

My son borrowed my K1 + DFA 15-30 + DFA 28-105 + DFA* 70-200 a couple of years ago for an aerial survey of logging in Victoria's Central Highlands. This is different from shooting a city I guess; he probably was flying lower. Anyway, for what it's worth, his most used lens was the 28-105, mostly towards the wide end (28-40ish), with a few longer (70 or 80mm). The 70-200 didn't get much use, and when it did, it was mostly at 70mm where the 28-105 would have sufficed.

The 15-30 also got reasonable use, but mostly over 20mm.

I am in a similar situation. So 28-45 on 645Z and 77mm on K1 could be optimum solutions to the quandary.

---------- Post added 02-15-20 at 12:40 PM ----------

In my little experience with aerial photography (only a couple of times and on small airplanes, not helicopters) you want your sharpest and fastest lens with the best hi ISO body you have. Vibration and motion blur are your biggest concerns, especially in a helicopter.
Hyperfocal focusing and go for it!

Thanks,

The 645Z and the K1 fit the bill here. The Fujifilm isn't supposed to be as good in high ISO performance.

Typically, i think the TAv mode with shutter speed at 1/500 sec should do the trick in most situations. I will vary aperture if necessary.

---------- Post added 02-15-20 at 12:44 PM ----------

The Fuji 23 is like a 35mm in terms of field of view. I don't see it as a compelling choice over the zoom in the 645z or a short telephoto on the k1. Also as mentioned an ovf is probably a real blessing is this situation.

I could get another Fujifilm lens too. But i am more concerned about learning to use a new camera from a scratch besides the EVF of the Fujifilm.

---------- Post added 02-15-20 at 12:46 PM ----------

I haven't yet used the Photographers Ephemeris app, but it would give you ideas of exactly where the sun and moon would be in relAtion to your subjects at any rime of day, might be worth a try

I got the Planit Pro. But i am yet to learn to use it. Prima facie, it doesn't look very intuitive. But i may not have tried hard enough and may be wrong.

[zapp]

You can even use google earth and fly at a certain height over a landscape. Check distance to calculate focal length. For cityscape a zoom starting at wide angle makes most sense. Optical viewfinder and full camera control are required. We once used a Sigma 20mm lens from helicopter and the wind just pushed the focusing ring back.
Make sure you know how to talk to the pilot. Zoom with the helicopter not with your feet. 645 has widest exposure leverage. You can pull even dark shadows.
Keep yourself warm.
We typically remove a door for aerial survey flights to lean out for vertical shots, with climbers fixation... An open door makes any photography easier. After first flight think what you missed, looks like you go several times.

Last but not least, take you time. The world looks gorgeous up there, take time for composition and exposure rather than taking as many images possible.

[ismaelg]

Last but not least, take you time. The world looks gorgeous up there, take time for composition and exposure rather than taking as many images possible.

Agree! The view is magnificent and the first time (and the next) you can get mesmerized by the beauty and go like "Ohh! I need to take pictures!"

[leonine]

You can even use google earth and fly at a certain height over a landscape. Check distance to calculate focal length. For cityscape a zoom starting at wide angle makes most sense. Optical viewfinder and full camera control are required. We once used a Sigma 20mm lens from helicopter and the wind just pushed the focusing ring back.
Make sure you know how to talk to the pilot. Zoom with the helicopter not with your feet. 645 has widest exposure leverage. You can pull even dark shadows.
Keep yourself warm.
We typically remove a door for aerial survey flights to lean out for vertical shots, with climbers fixation... An open door makes any photography easier. After first flight think what you missed, looks like you go several times.

Last but not least, take you time. The world looks gorgeous up there, take time for composition and exposure rather than taking as many images possible.

Thank you very much for your kind advice. The points you have brought out are extremely important and are on my check list. Hopefully, i will be going over the city at least twice maybe thrice.

[leonine]

I read up quite a bit on the gyros of Ken-Lab. Interesting products. Does anyone here have any experience with them? Which would be an optimum one for the Pentax 645Z and a heavy lens like 28-45?

Another important thing - We are supposed to switch off the SR (in lebs or in body, whichever you have) when using the camera on a tripod.

Are we supposed to switch off the SR when the camera set up is mounted on a compact portable gyro like those manufactured by Ken-Labs?

[leonine]

Hello all,



So finally, I went up in the helicopter during the day a few days ago. Got decent images. Can't post right now under terms of contract with the agency for which the images are shot. Used Pentax 645Z with 28-45 f/4.5 and Fujifilm XT-4 with 16-55 f/2.8.



I also flew in the night yesterday for some time. Used Pentax 645Z with 55mm f/2.8 and Pentax K1 with 77mm f/1.8. No gyro stabilisers in the chopper or a portable one. Shot mostly at 1/500 with lenses wide open in TAv mode, with ISO restricted to 25600.



First, at these settings, almost all images were at ISO 25600. Almost all are pretty dark. If I attempt to bring out the details on Photoshop, the noise gets highly visible. It is quite possible that even at ISO 25600, the images are highly underexposed. The city isn't as brightly lit as most big cities in Europe or US or Australia.



So, the only choice with available gear is to shoot at much lower shutter speeds like say 1/125 and try to gain two stops so that I can bring the ISO to say 6400, at which the images are expected to be OK, provided at ISO 6400 itself the images are not underexposed.



We are flying at about 700 to 1000 feet max. The weather is gorgeous, the visibility is good but my existing kit simply doesn't look upto it to get decent images.



I am flying again tomorrow. I don't seem to have any choice but to hire a better camera lens combination.



I thought of Sony As 7 ii as an option. It is full frame and only 12 MP and is supposed to have astounding high ISO performance. I will pair it with a fast prime like 35 or 50mm f/1.4 or else try my luck with 24-70 f/2.8 (and lose two stops). With 5 axis IBIS and a fast prime, maybe I will get decent details.



Alternatively, I will get the Canon 1Dx or Nikon D5 with a fast prime like 50mm f/2.8.



I have only tonight to make up my mind.



I would be thankful for some advice.

[UncleVanya]

So, the only choice with available gear is to shoot at much lower shutter speeds like say 1/125 and try to gain two stops so that I can bring the ISO to say 6400, at which the images are expected to be OK, provided at ISO 6400 itself the images are not underexposed.



We are flying at about 700 to 1000 feet max. The weather is gorgeous, the visibility is good but my existing kit simply doesn't look upto it to get decent images.



I am flying again tomorrow. I don't seem to have any choice but to hire a better camera lens combination.



I thought of Sony As 7 ii as an option. It is full frame and only 12 MP and is supposed to have astounding high ISO performance. I will pair it with a fast prime like 35 or 50mm f/1.4 or else try my luck with 24-70 f/2.8 (and lose two stops). With 5 axis IBIS and a fast prime, maybe I will get decent details.



Alternatively, I will get the Canon 1Dx or Nikon D5 with a fast prime like 50mm f/2.8.



I have only tonight to make up my mind.



I would be thankful for some advice.

The Sony A7sii, Canon 1dx mk iii and Nikon d5 you mention are all worse performing at low light than the K1. The 645Z also exceeds these by a wide margin.

The K1 fa 77 at f1.8 isn't going to be bested by any f2.8 lens be on any camera.

Maybe the Fuji medium format using their 90mm f1.4 could capture brighter images but little else can.

[leonine]

Thanks UncleVanya.

Sorry I meant 50mm f/1.4 on one of Sony AS ii OR Nikon D4/D5 OR Canon 1Dx ii. However, none of the 50mm f/1.4 lenses have IS/SR. closest is 24-70 f/2.8 VR of Nikon and maybe Canon. But I lose 2 stops here. Every single 1/3 stop also matters in this kind of photography.

So, if you say D4 etc are nothing great in high ISO performance, then the K1 with 50mm f/1.4 would be the better choice under present circumstances ��

[UncleVanya]

Thanks UncleVanya.

Sorry I meant 50mm f/1.4 on one of Sony AS ii OR Nikon D4/D5 OR Canon 1Dx ii. However, none of the 50mm f/1.4 lenses have IS/SR. closest is 24-70 f/2.8 VR of Nikon and maybe Canon. But I lose 2 stops here. Every single 1/3 stop also matters in this kind of photography.

So, if you say D4 etc are nothing great in high ISO performance, then the K1 with 50mm f/1.4 would be the better choice under present circumstances ��

I'm basing it on dxo sensor numbers including their Sports iso value which is an indication of low light performance. They're all respectable, the spread between them isn't huge. But if the goal is the best low light, the k1 and 645z are up there at the top of the pile.

The optical stabilization features of some lenses could however outperform ibis in this scenario. I think this would mainly manifest in telephoto shots.

The DFA 50 f1.4 is a tiny bit faster than the fa 77, but it honestly sounds like you need even more light. What's the post processing software you are using in the raw images? Dxo does a very good job with noise.

[leonine]

I tried out another night sortie yesterday. ISO capped at 25600 for 645Z with 90mm f/2.8 and shutter speeds between 1/125 and 1/180, hoping that the at least 2 stop SR of the lens would give me decent images.

I repeated the same for K1 with 77mm, ISO capped at 12800 and shutter speeds between 1/60 to 1/250.

Most shots were from some distance between the chopper and the subject. So, the relative motion was slow.

I am yet to evaluate the images, but prima facie, I do not see much improvement.

So, you are right. Quite possibly, the overall light intensity of the city is not adequate and even if one uses gyro stabilisers like the Kenyon ones, as long as you are moving, with some relative motion between you in the chopper and the subject being photographed, you are unlikely to get decent images. However, if you hover in one place, then a highly stabilised set up including external gyro stabilisers might give decent images, if you bring down the shutter speeds to low ones like 1/30 to 1/60 at ISOs ranging from 25600 to 6400.

The only other option for images with aerial perspective is to climb on high rise buildings and take pictures of the world below

I will continue with the daytime aerial photography, which is comparatively reasonably simple for me.

I have only gone through the images using Adobe Bridge and Photoshop.

I will try out the DxO and Topaz software.

[ismaelg]

Topaz has worked wonders for me. ISO 8000 shots on my K5II clean up beautifully. I would think ISO 12800 in the K1 may probably be cleaner than 8000 in my K5II.

Thanks,