K-New sensor? will it be 43mp?

surfar · 02-21-2020, 02:53 PM

Well much discussion about 24..26...28mp known sensors that could be in K-N

RI have been saying its going to be "good".

Well how good?

Hows BSI stacked 8K 43 mp?

Leapfrogging 4K completely?

Sony IMX671 AQR has been revealed.Could it happen?

stevebrot · 02-21-2020, 03:10 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by surfar

K-New sensor? will it be 43mp?

Probably not.

Edit: Hmmmm, that was a bit abrupt.

It is enough to say that the laws of optical physics and usability are not in our favor at that high a pixel density...diffraction limited at f/5.6.

Steve

**tduell** · 02-21-2020, 03:11 PM

K-New is unlikely to have a sensor that has only just been announced...the engineering for the chosen sensor would have been already been done and dusted.

Cheers,
Terry

Adam · 02-21-2020, 03:27 PM

Wouldn't make sense to step over the K-1 prematurely, IMO. But let's wait and see!

Adam
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D1N0 · 02-21-2020, 05:58 PM

Not very likely. The 26mp sensor that is in the Fuji or 24mp. IMX571 or IMX271

**StiffLegged** · 02-22-2020, 02:29 AM - **2 Likes**

I have excellent information that I just thought of:- it will have a 38.5 megapickle side-illuminated sensor with on-chip photo evaluation and a Bluetooth direct link to Instagram so all your followers can see how lame your photos are before even taking them. Feel free to repost this rubbish anywhere you like!!

**Rondec** · 02-22-2020, 03:33 AM

26 megapixels is it.

The thing is that this camera has been in development for quite awhile -- over a year -- there is no way that this sensor was available when they started development on it and they aren't going to go back to square one to change sensors now.

D1N0 · 02-22-2020, 04:32 AM

That and Pentax is not video centric, 8k is overkill but would add substantially to the cost of the camera. Not just sensor but also image processor. I do not think most people would appreciate the file size of a 43 mp sensor. A 20mp sensor like in the D500 and D7500 would be more likely if Sony is allowed to sell that to Ricoh (Since they made it for Nikon exclusively). The 26mp sensor has not been used by Sony for any of their aps-c offerings. I don't really see and advantage over the 24mp one. As long as Ricoh manages to botch sensor based AF it doesn't really matter and since the K-new doesn't have a articulating screen I don't think they have focussed on sensor based pdaf. A new SAFOX AF chip must be the the selling point of the K-new. Sensor iq hasn't really improved for years now. Improvements have been processing power/ read out speed related and the implementation of sensor based AF. Both at the cost of absolute IQ.

Oldbayrunner · 02-22-2020, 07:49 AM - **1 Like**

As far as I am concerned 24mp was stretching the aps-c limit. My 16mp K5lls has better dynamic range and less noise then my K3lls but at 24mp the resolution is enough to compensate the difference. So a 43mp aps-c to me is cramming too much into too small an area. 4K video is hard enough to process on most computers, the file size takes forever to process and if one wants to post it on the likes of Youtube then it needs to get reduced to 1080K anyway... But hey the more gimics the more they sell right?

**pres589** · 02-22-2020, 08:02 AM

Agreed; I think enough people are realizing that cramming more pixels into the same sized sensor doesn't always yield improvements. 20mpix would be fine with me, especially if it pulled IQ back to where the K-5II/IIs was at vs. the K-3. My hope is for even better AF over the KP, K-70, and K-1 (somehow) especially in low light (I've not used those cameras, it's just where I hope things can get even better). I'm also hoping for bluetooth connectivity in the new body and a USB-C jack.

In short, I think that megapixels is not where this new body is going to impress, and I think there's other good areas to focus efforts instead.

**Rondec** · 02-22-2020, 08:21 AM

The big thing is that I don't know that a lot of our APS-C lenses are up to that sort of resolution. They could be in the center, stopped down a bit, but the edges are going to be soft on lenses like the 18-135, 16-50, and probably a number of the DA limiteds too.

**pres589** · 02-22-2020, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

The big thing is that I don't know that a lot of our APS-C lenses are up to that sort of resolution. They could be in the center, stopped down a bit, but the edges are going to be soft on lenses like the 18-135, 16-50, and probably a number of the DA limiteds too.

Why would lenses that were "sharp enough" on 10, 12, or 16mpix become soft at 30 or 40mpix? Did users experience that when going from the 6mpix cameras to 20mpix or greater with lenses like the 16-45 or other similar era lenses? This is in no way saying that the 16-50 doesn't need an update...

**luftfluss** · 02-22-2020, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Oldbayrunner

As far as I am concerned 24mp was stretching the aps-c limit. My 16mp K5lls has better dynamic range and less noise then my K3lls but at 24mp the resolution is enough to compensate the difference.

That was just a quirk of the specific sensor Pentax used in the K-3. Other 24MP sensors like in the NIkon D7200 surpass (by a small margin) the K-5 IIs in both dynamic range and noise control. And of course the 24MP sensor + Accelerator in the Pentax K-70/KP also beats the K-5 IIs in those categories.

When I downsample images from my K-3 II to match the 16MP output from my K-5 II, I find the noise performance between the 2 cameras nearly identical.

**Rondec** · 02-22-2020, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by pres589

Why would lenses that were "sharp enough" on 10, 12, or 16mpix become soft at 30 or 40mpix? Did users experience that when going from the 6mpix cameras to 20mpix or greater with lenses like the 16-45 or other similar era lenses? This is in no way saying that the 16-50 doesn't need an update...

I'm not saying that. What I do know is that, for instance, my DA 15 limited is pretty soft on the edges on 24 megapixel K3 sensor till I get to at least f8. Of course, it won't be worse on a 43 megapixel sensor, but it won't be better either. The same with the DA *16-50.

I think the DA *55 and DA 40 and DA 35 limited would all do better than that, but I think we all know that you reach a point of diminishing returns. You bump resolution a bunch but somehow you just don't get that much more detail. Maybe it is that the lens isn't up to the task, maybe you just can't hand hold that pixel density, or maybe there is something else going on that limits things, but what you get is a lot bigger file, but not so much more real resolution.

kypfer · 02-22-2020, 10:10 AM

43M-pixels would be groovy ... but I'd settle for 36M-pixels. A 50% increase from 24, like that from 16 to 24, would be worth having

What I would like, occasionally, are a couple of stops less sensitivity ... being able to dial in 25 or 50 ISO, rather than having to dig out and fit an ND filter, would be useful! Obviously, if they can further improve the noise at the very high sensitivities, that would be nice as well

02-21-2020, 02:53 PM	#1
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,143	K-New sensor? will it be 43mp? Well much discussion about 24..26...28mp known sensors that could be in K-N RI have been saying its going to be "good". Well how good? Hows BSI stacked 8K 43 mp? Leapfrogging 4K completely? Sony IMX671 AQR has been revealed.Could it happen?

02-21-2020, 03:10 PM - 1 Like	#2
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by surfar K-New sensor? will it be 43mp? Probably not. Edit: Hmmmm, that was a bit abrupt. It is enough to say that the laws of optical physics and usability are not in our favor at that high a pixel density...diffraction limited at f/5.6. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 02-21-2020 at 03:18 PM.

02-22-2020, 08:48 AM	#13
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,627	Originally posted by Oldbayrunner As far as I am concerned 24mp was stretching the aps-c limit. My 16mp K5lls has better dynamic range and less noise then my K3lls but at 24mp the resolution is enough to compensate the difference. That was just a quirk of the specific sensor Pentax used in the K-3. Other 24MP sensors like in the NIkon D7200 surpass (by a small margin) the K-5 IIs in both dynamic range and noise control. And of course the 24MP sensor + Accelerator in the Pentax K-70/KP also beats the K-5 IIs in those categories. When I downsample images from my K-3 II to match the 16MP output from my K-5 II, I find the noise performance between the 2 cameras nearly identical. Last edited by luftfluss; 02-22-2020 at 08:54 AM.

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02-21-2020, 03:11 PM	#3
tduell Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,515	K-New is unlikely to have a sensor that has only just been announced...the engineering for the chosen sensor would have been already been done and dusted. Cheers, Terry

02-21-2020, 03:27 PM	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	Wouldn't make sense to step over the K-1 prematurely, IMO. But let's wait and see! Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

02-21-2020, 05:58 PM	#5
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Not very likely. The 26mp sensor that is in the Fuji or 24mp. IMX571 or IMX271

02-22-2020, 02:29 AM - 2 Likes	#6
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,634	I have excellent information that I just thought of:- it will have a 38.5 megapickle side-illuminated sensor with on-chip photo evaluation and a Bluetooth direct link to Instagram so all your followers can see how lame your photos are before even taking them. Feel free to repost this rubbish anywhere you like!!

02-22-2020, 03:33 AM	#7
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	26 megapixels is it. The thing is that this camera has been in development for quite awhile -- over a year -- there is no way that this sensor was available when they started development on it and they aren't going to go back to square one to change sensors now.

02-22-2020, 04:32 AM	#8
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	That and Pentax is not video centric, 8k is overkill but would add substantially to the cost of the camera. Not just sensor but also image processor. I do not think most people would appreciate the file size of a 43 mp sensor. A 20mp sensor like in the D500 and D7500 would be more likely if Sony is allowed to sell that to Ricoh (Since they made it for Nikon exclusively). The 26mp sensor has not been used by Sony for any of their aps-c offerings. I don't really see and advantage over the 24mp one. As long as Ricoh manages to botch sensor based AF it doesn't really matter and since the K-new doesn't have a articulating screen I don't think they have focussed on sensor based pdaf. A new SAFOX AF chip must be the the selling point of the K-new. Sensor iq hasn't really improved for years now. Improvements have been processing power/ read out speed related and the implementation of sensor based AF. Both at the cost of absolute IQ.

02-22-2020, 07:49 AM - 1 Like	#9
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,665	As far as I am concerned 24mp was stretching the aps-c limit. My 16mp K5lls has better dynamic range and less noise then my K3lls but at 24mp the resolution is enough to compensate the difference. So a 43mp aps-c to me is cramming too much into too small an area. 4K video is hard enough to process on most computers, the file size takes forever to process and if one wants to post it on the likes of Youtube then it needs to get reduced to 1080K anyway... But hey the more gimics the more they sell right?

02-22-2020, 08:02 AM	#10
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,533	Agreed; I think enough people are realizing that cramming more pixels into the same sized sensor doesn't always yield improvements. 20mpix would be fine with me, especially if it pulled IQ back to where the K-5II/IIs was at vs. the K-3. My hope is for even better AF over the KP, K-70, and K-1 (somehow) especially in low light (I've not used those cameras, it's just where I hope things can get even better). I'm also hoping for bluetooth connectivity in the new body and a USB-C jack. In short, I think that megapixels is not where this new body is going to impress, and I think there's other good areas to focus efforts instead.

02-22-2020, 08:21 AM	#11
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	The big thing is that I don't know that a lot of our APS-C lenses are up to that sort of resolution. They could be in the center, stopped down a bit, but the edges are going to be soft on lenses like the 18-135, 16-50, and probably a number of the DA limiteds too.

02-22-2020, 08:25 AM	#12
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,533	Originally posted by Rondec The big thing is that I don't know that a lot of our APS-C lenses are up to that sort of resolution. They could be in the center, stopped down a bit, but the edges are going to be soft on lenses like the 18-135, 16-50, and probably a number of the DA limiteds too. Why would lenses that were "sharp enough" on 10, 12, or 16mpix become soft at 30 or 40mpix? Did users experience that when going from the 6mpix cameras to 20mpix or greater with lenses like the 16-45 or other similar era lenses? This is in no way saying that the 16-50 doesn't need an update...

02-22-2020, 09:01 AM	#14
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by pres589 Why would lenses that were "sharp enough" on 10, 12, or 16mpix become soft at 30 or 40mpix? Did users experience that when going from the 6mpix cameras to 20mpix or greater with lenses like the 16-45 or other similar era lenses? This is in no way saying that the 16-50 doesn't need an update... I'm not saying that. What I do know is that, for instance, my DA 15 limited is pretty soft on the edges on 24 megapixel K3 sensor till I get to at least f8. Of course, it won't be worse on a 43 megapixel sensor, but it won't be better either. The same with the DA 16-50. I think the DA 55 and DA 40 and DA 35 limited would all do better than that, but I think we all know that you reach a point of diminishing returns. You bump resolution a bunch but somehow you just don't get that much more detail. Maybe it is that the lens isn't up to the task, maybe you just can't hand hold that pixel density, or maybe there is something else going on that limits things, but what you get is a lot bigger file, but not so much more real resolution.

02-22-2020, 10:10 AM	#15
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,596	43M-pixels would be groovy ... but I'd settle for 36M-pixels. A 50% increase from 24, like that from 16 to 24, would be worth having What I would like, occasionally, are a couple of stops less sensitivity ... being able to dial in 25 or 50 ISO, rather than having to dig out and fit an ND filter, would be useful! Obviously, if they can further improve the noise at the very high sensitivities, that would be nice as well