[SJA]

Hey all.

Just diving into the composition/sensor adjustment feature on the K1, and wondering how this in-camera feature compares to a tilt shift lens. I've been pondering buying a tilt shift for landscapes and to increase my DOF when shooting at an angle on product shots, but since there's only the one lens readily available, and it's not free, if I can do the same thing in camera, the lens might be a waste of money. Thoughts?

[stevebrot]

I've been pondering buying a tilt shift for landscapes and to increase my DOF when shooting at an angle on product shots, but since there's only the one lens readily available, and it's not free, if I can do the same thing in camera, the lens might be a waste of money. Thoughts?

The Composition Adjustment feature cannot be used to do Scheimpflug (adjust the plane of focus). For that you will need tilt at minimum and to do it right, a view camera with a good selection of movements.

Scheimpflug principle - Wikipedia


Steve

[photoptimist]

The in-camera "Composition Adjust":
PROs:
-- comes free with purchase of camera
-- works with any lens (but it's best with wide and ultra-wide lenses)
-- can rotate the image to level the horizon, too
CON:
-- only offers ±1.5mm shift in X&Y (or 2.1 mm diagonally)
-- no tilt function

A tilt-shift lens:
PRO:
-- much more shift (typically 10-12 mm) so the effect is much stronger
-- tilt
CON:
-- not cheap
-- only available in a few focal lengths*.

Overall, a dedicated lens can do a lot more but the in camera version is easy to try.

* There's more than one option in the tilt-shift world. There are various tilt-shift adapters floating about that mount a 6x7 lens to a K-mount camera. There's also the 28mm Pentax shift lens (no tilting) and a Lensbaby beasty for more "artistic" tilting (no shifting).

[mlt]

The in-camera "Composition Adjust":
PROs:
-- comes free with purchase of camera
-- works with any lens (but it's best with wide and ultra-wide lenses)
-- can rotate the image to level the horizon, too
CON:
-- only offers ±1.5mm shift in X&Y (or 2.1 mm diagonally)
-- no tilt function

A tilt-shift lens:
PRO:
-- much more shift (typically 10-12 mm) so the effect is much stronger
-- tilt
CON:
-- not cheap
-- only available in a few focal lengths*.

Overall, a dedicated lens can do a lot more but the in camera version is easy to try.

* There's more than one option in the tilt-shift world. There are various tilt-shift adapters floating about that mount a 6x7 lens to a K-mount camera. There's also the 28mm Pentax shift lens (no tilting) and a Lensbaby beasty for more "artistic" tilting (no shifting).

And one other option. If your subject is static, you can combine the sensor shift in each direction with panorama stitching of the 4 images to approximate a 27x39mm sensor

[FozzFoster]

There are various tilt-shift adapters floating about that mount a 6x7 lens to a K-mount camera.

Any chance you could provide a link to one? I'd be interested in something like this..

[photoptimist]

Any chance you could provide a link to one? I'd be interested in something like this..

A few links:

There's a Zörk Panorama/Shift adapter Pentax 6x7 lenses to Pentax K mount but I don't have any links to it.

This is a 645->K-mount Tilt/Shift adapter: Google Kääntäjä

For close-up work (and longer focal length lenses), there's going to the tilt-shift bellows route: Tilt-shift bellows

Note: I've got no direct experience with any of this. I've only used the Pentax 28/3.5 shift lens which I love but it does not do tilt.

[FozzFoster]

This is a 645->K-mount Tilt/Shift adapter: Google Kääntäjä

Thank you for this! I've never heard of this company Mirex! I will be looking more into this!
Thanks again!

[Silent Street]

I'm not convinced at all of in-camera adjustments. A real tilt/shift lens, with at least 11mm of shift (the best is omnidirectional) and 8 degrees of tilt will necessarily set you back a fair amount (they are specialist optics, not toys), and is a lifetime investment in learning and skills development, far removed form the elementary and limited variability built into the camera. I have been using Canon's famed TS-E lenses for both landscape and still life, and can tell you results don't come overnight, in a week, over a month or several months, but intensively and repetitively over a longer period of time. Shift by itself is limited in its usefulness, other than careful pseudo-panorama movement, while shift and tilt is the most useful tool of all, and of which movements are applied both visually or mathematically in applications of precision of modifying the lens plane and depth of field. The tilt/swing movements of smaller formats (sensors, and 35mm film) achieve close to the same results as large format, but with very much smaller movements than LF. The introduction of bellows in the setup adds a further level of complication and methodical manipulation of the system -- especially if the camera in use is LF or completely manual.

The LensBaby optics are a fun accessory to play with (no lacking the high degree of correction so evident in pricey TS optics) and don't require (nor expect) detailed knowledge of the principles at work when the focal plane and lens plane are subjected to adjustment: just slap one on and twist and shout!

[jlstrawman]

Pentax 67 tilt/shift adapters from Fotodiox announced - PentaxForums.com

[Kobayashi.K]

Perhaps I don't understand what you want to achieve, but this tilt-shift thing is a solution from the past or when your workflow is completely analog. When you are shooting digital it is much easier to do perspective correction in post.

[photoptimist]

Perhaps I don't understand what you want to achieve, but this tilt-shift thing is a solution from the past or when your workflow is completely analog. When you are shooting digital it is much easier to do perspective correction in post.

Yes, you can simulate the effects of a shift lens in post with perspective correction although it can reduce the sharpness in the stretched part of the image. For edge-to-edge sharpness in high-detail scenes such as landscapes and architecture, a good shift lens gets better results.

Tilt, on the other hand, is not something that can be easily done in post because it manipulates the plane of focus in the scene. With a tilt lens, it's generally possible to bring any three objects at different distances into simultaneous focus even with a wide-open aperture. Trying to replicate a tilt lens with a non-tilt lens plus digital post processing would require a focus stack of images (only possible with stationary objects) and a lot of careful post processing to select parts of each focus stack image and merge them.

[Kobayashi.K]

Before you buy a tilt-shift lens just do a little test and shoot a brick wall frontally with a standard lens, from a tripod, line it out perfectly horizontally and vertically, without any perspective deformation, with the horizon perfectly flat, and without barrel distortion (otherwise it still looks crap). Don't forget to note the time needed for that. Then open the file in an editor to observe how far from ideal the result actually is and that corrections are needed anyways. I guess you will immediately abandon the idea of a tilt-shift lens after this experience.

[stevebrot]

Perhaps I don't understand what you want to achieve, but this tilt-shift thing is a solution from the past or when your workflow is completely analog. When you are shooting digital it is much easier to do perspective correction in post.

The OP is wanting deeper DOF for product shots. Traditionally and also for current commercial work, plane-of-focus manipulation using camera movements has been the most direct path (no...it does not require a life time of practice). However, for small product, focus stacking might be a good solution, assuming adequate working distance.


Steve

[bdery]

I compared the two options, to some extent, in this review:

Rokinon Tilt-Shift 24mm F3.5 Review - Introduction | PentaxForums.com Reviews

[Kobayashi.K]

The OP is wanting deeper DOF for product shots. Traditionally and also for current commercial work, plane-of-focus manipulation using camera movements has been the most direct path (no...it does not require a life time of practice). However, for small product, focus stacking might be a good solution, assuming adequate working distance.
Steve

I don't see the usefulness of a tilt-shift lens for landscape (not even for architecture) but perhaps it is useful for increasing DOF. I have no experience with that.

My point is that if you are post-processing your photos it is much more practical to do all the corrections in post because also photo's taken with a tilt-shift lens need these corrections (to a lesser extend) unless you are a very experienced user or when you don't see the necessity to perfectly line them out at 0.1 degrees.