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doc58bc · 03-25-2020, 08:45 AM - **1 Like**

Is the background color of the current Ricoh Pentax lens packaging box the 18% neutral grey as in a "grey card".

kypfer · 03-25-2020, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by doc58bc

Is the background color of the current Ricoh Pentax lens packaging box the 18% neutral grey as in a "grey card".

I don't have a lens box, but if the lens packaging is similar to the box my KP came in it's probably too shiny (reflective) to be a reliable grey card ... I can't find an old grey card to compare the actual colour, but I remember them being relatively matt finish.

stevebrot · 03-25-2020, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by doc58bc

Is the background color of the current Ricoh Pentax lens packaging box the 18% neutral grey as in a "grey card".

No...about a stop lighter.

Steve

**Apet-Sure** · 03-25-2020, 02:31 PM

I have a Kodak gray card from back in the day. If you look at the 'proud owner' graphic in kypfer's post above, the gray just to the right of the 'S' in 'istDS' is about the same to my eye. However, this comparison is affected by the brightness setting on my monitor and the illumination falling on my gray card. So, may not be that helpful.

**acoufap** · 03-27-2020, 07:28 AM

A table of zones. Zone V represents 18% reflective - generated using html table tags, function hsl(0, 0%, 50%).

Of course on a display lightness may be off.

**Kerrowdown** · 03-27-2020, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by doc58bc

18% Grey?

Why not just use a X-Rite ColorChecker Passport, got all the bases covered then.

stevebrot · 03-27-2020, 03:28 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kerrowdown

Why not just use a X-Rite ColorChecker Passport, got all the bases covered then.

$$$

Steve

stevebrot · 03-27-2020, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Apet-Sure

However, this comparison is affected by the brightness setting on my monitor and the illumination falling on my gray card. So, may not be that helpful.

Monitor color balance is another consideration. For most purposes, it is best to not directly compare reflected and emitted light when doing a technical evaluation. That said, the meters on our Pentax dSLRs are calibrated against a standardized light source, but evaluated against 18% gray for CIPA certification.

Steve

**Kerrowdown** · 03-27-2020, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

$$$Steve

Aye I guess... but if colours and balance are important, it's a great wee tool for getting the job done.

Wheatfield · 03-27-2020, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by doc58bc

Is the background color of the current Ricoh Pentax lens packaging box the 18% neutral grey as in a "grey card".

No it isn't.

**Apet-Sure** · 03-27-2020, 03:52 PM - **1 Like**

I think the OP simply wanted a general idea of what 18% gray looks like. The chart by acoufap above does a nice job of this IMO. Not all questions need a deep technical answer.

**RGlasel** · 03-27-2020, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Apet-Sure

Not all questions need a deep technical answer.

It's a bit off topic, but thanks for the reminder. I really need to apply this pearl more often in my other life.

35mmfilmfan · 03-28-2020, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by Apet-Sure

Not all questions need a deep technical answer.

True - but giving one can often lead to a more informative, wider ranging discussion. OTOH, the person who asked may just give up in frustration !

**Bob 256** · 03-28-2020, 09:52 AM

Wow! ............. A lot of answers for the original question.

Something though I have to respond to is that a monitor is NOT a reflectance standard and can't be compared to a gray card. A gray card REFLECTS a given percentage of the light striking it and takes on a color cast depending on the ambient light (it exhibits a "self-adjusting" color temperature). No monitor should ever be used as a gray card. Color reference, yes. Gray card, no way.

If one wants a fair gray card substitute on the cheap (maybe not so cheap), RUST-OLEUM Satin Granite (for those in the US) sprayed on a white base (3 coats) comes close. It's a bit more shiny than a gray card, but again it's pretty close and has great neutrality (equal reflectance of all colors).

I think the OP just wanted a quick gray card substitute but I could be wrong.

stevebrot · 03-28-2020, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Bob 256

Something though I have to respond to is that a monitor is NOT a reflectance standard and can't be compared to a gray card. A gray card REFLECTS a given percentage of the light striking it and takes on a color cast depending on the ambient light (it exhibits a "self-adjusting" color temperature). No monitor should ever be used as a gray card. Color reference, yes. Gray card, no way.

Thanks for expanding on what I added as an aside. I particularly appreciate the note regard color temperature. People tend to use use something white for in-camera custom white balance when a gray card would be much more appropriate.

Steve

03-25-2020, 08:45 AM - 1 Like	#1
doc58bc Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 34	18% Grey? Is the background color of the current Ricoh Pentax lens packaging box the 18% neutral grey as in a "grey card".

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03-25-2020, 09:09 AM	#2
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,600	Originally posted by doc58bc Is the background color of the current Ricoh Pentax lens packaging box the 18% neutral grey as in a "grey card". I don't have a lens box, but if the lens packaging is similar to the box my KP came in it's probably too shiny (reflective) to be a reliable grey card ... I can't find an old grey card to compare the actual colour, but I remember them being relatively matt finish.

03-25-2020, 10:58 AM	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by doc58bc Is the background color of the current Ricoh Pentax lens packaging box the 18% neutral grey as in a "grey card". No...about a stop lighter. Steve

03-25-2020, 02:31 PM	#4
Apet-Sure Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Goldsboro North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,872	I have a Kodak gray card from back in the day. If you look at the 'proud owner' graphic in kypfer's post above, the gray just to the right of the 'S' in 'istDS' is about the same to my eye. However, this comparison is affected by the brightness setting on my monitor and the illumination falling on my gray card. So, may not be that helpful.

03-27-2020, 07:28 AM	#5
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,191	A table of zones. Zone V represents 18% reflective - generated using html table tags, function hsl(0, 0%, 50%). Of course on a display lightness may be off.

03-27-2020, 07:31 AM	#6
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,867	Originally posted by doc58bc 18% Grey? Why not just use a X-Rite ColorChecker Passport, got all the bases covered then.

03-27-2020, 03:28 PM - 1 Like	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Kerrowdown Why not just use a X-Rite ColorChecker Passport, got all the bases covered then. $$$ Steve

03-27-2020, 03:33 PM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Apet-Sure However, this comparison is affected by the brightness setting on my monitor and the illumination falling on my gray card. So, may not be that helpful. Monitor color balance is another consideration. For most purposes, it is best to not directly compare reflected and emitted light when doing a technical evaluation. That said, the meters on our Pentax dSLRs are calibrated against a standardized light source, but evaluated against 18% gray for CIPA certification. Steve

03-27-2020, 03:35 PM	#9
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,867	Originally posted by stevebrot $$$Steve Aye I guess... but if colours and balance are important, it's a great wee tool for getting the job done.

03-27-2020, 03:46 PM	#10
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,991	Originally posted by doc58bc Is the background color of the current Ricoh Pentax lens packaging box the 18% neutral grey as in a "grey card". No it isn't.

03-27-2020, 03:52 PM - 1 Like	#11
Apet-Sure Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Goldsboro North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,872	I think the OP simply wanted a general idea of what 18% gray looks like. The chart by acoufap above does a nice job of this IMO. Not all questions need a deep technical answer.

03-27-2020, 07:51 PM	#12
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,229	Originally posted by Apet-Sure Not all questions need a deep technical answer. It's a bit off topic, but thanks for the reminder. I really need to apply this pearl more often in my other life.

03-28-2020, 02:41 AM	#13
35mmfilmfan Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 4,342	Originally posted by Apet-Sure Not all questions need a deep technical answer. True - but giving one can often lead to a more informative, wider ranging discussion. OTOH, the person who asked may just give up in frustration !

03-28-2020, 09:52 AM	#14
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,379	Wow! ............. A lot of answers for the original question. Something though I have to respond to is that a monitor is NOT a reflectance standard and can't be compared to a gray card. A gray card REFLECTS a given percentage of the light striking it and takes on a color cast depending on the ambient light (it exhibits a "self-adjusting" color temperature). No monitor should ever be used as a gray card. Color reference, yes. Gray card, no way. If one wants a fair gray card substitute on the cheap (maybe not so cheap), RUST-OLEUM Satin Granite (for those in the US) sprayed on a white base (3 coats) comes close. It's a bit more shiny than a gray card, but again it's pretty close and has great neutrality (equal reflectance of all colors). I think the OP just wanted a quick gray card substitute but I could be wrong.

03-28-2020, 02:13 PM	#15
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Bob 256 Something though I have to respond to is that a monitor is NOT a reflectance standard and can't be compared to a gray card. A gray card REFLECTS a given percentage of the light striking it and takes on a color cast depending on the ambient light (it exhibits a "self-adjusting" color temperature). No monitor should ever be used as a gray card. Color reference, yes. Gray card, no way. Thanks for expanding on what I added as an aside. I particularly appreciate the note regard color temperature. People tend to use use something white for in-camera custom white balance when a gray card would be much more appropriate. Steve