skewed body design

shuie · 10-28-2008, 07:53 AM

Didn't know where else to put this so here goes. Shortly after I got my k10 I got looking for ways to improve it. I wondered if there whould be an advantage to making the camera so the back of the camera was angled away from the face at the bottom. As I saw it it would prevent nose smear on the lcd, make it easier to get your eye, make it more ergonomic to grip. I contacted Pentax about this and they told me to send drawings.( I never did, sorry) Does anybody else think these features would be beneficial on a future DSLR?

Gooshin · 10-28-2008, 10:06 AM

whats wrong with buying an eye piece extention?

Arpe · 10-28-2008, 04:14 PM

I'd have to see and hold it first before I can comment on that one!

I don't like what Canon have done with their 3" screens, putting them all the way to the left, real nose territory, at least Nikon with their big screens have kept it to the right a bit.

axl · 10-28-2008, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Gooshin

whats wrong with buying an eye piece extention?

i think this desrves to be nominated for the reply of the year....

Arpe · 10-28-2008, 04:23 PM

What's wrong with answering the question?

SpecialK · 10-28-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

I don't like what Canon have done with their 3" screens, putting them all the way to the left, real nose territory, at least Nikon with their big screens have kept it to the right a bit.

Doesn't it depend if you are left or right nosed?

MoiVous · 10-28-2008, 07:29 PM

We'd have to see your suggestion, but this is a variation on either the eyepiece extender or (for those that remember) the top viewfinder the old Canon F1 and Nikon F used to have (you could swap the prisms!)

Of course, if your not making maximal contact with the camera (including your nose!) its may not be as stable to hold - which is one of the reasons a lot of people move away from P&S or buy tripods

Seriously though, I'm not really sure of the benefit in a nose space as the chassis manufacture would become more complex (odd shapes), and potentially less rigid (a box or sphere is structurally stronger in general) as well as complicating light paths (like the AF).

So if you've got a thumbnail sketch lets have a look - and make sure you CC it to Pentax so you can claim the intellectual property if they follow through!

Venturi · 10-28-2008, 10:51 PM

Shouldn't be any more difficult than the 645D prototype had...
[imgwideleft]http://www.slrtoday.com/content_images/pentax645bigback.JPG[/imgwideleft]

Why did they kill/postpone that anyway?

**Lowell Goudge** · 10-29-2008, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by shuie

Didn't know where else to put this so here goes. Shortly after I got my k10 I got looking for ways to improve it. I wondered if there whould be an advantage to making the camera so the back of the camera was angled away from the face at the bottom. As I saw it it would prevent nose smear on the lcd, make it easier to get your eye, make it more ergonomic to grip. I contacted Pentax about this and they told me to send drawings.( I never did, sorry) Does anybody else think these features would be beneficial on a future DSLR?

Not to poke too much fun at you, but there is a serious technical reason the back of a camera is flat and at right angles to the lens. The back of the camera body is where the shutter and sensor are located (and before electroncis, the film plane)

The only way to achieve what you want is to make the eyepeice further back and add a lot of additional bulk and weight to the camera. it is presently at its minimal dimensions front to back unless you want to change the lens mount distance to focal plane and scrap all past interchangability. (something like olympus did when going to 4/3) and then give up the volume advantage by making the camera stick out at the top

shuie · 10-29-2008, 07:38 AM

Actually as I imagined it the body would be a little deeper than standard however the shutter and sensor mechanisms would be moved forward in the body to maintain the same focal plane. As for the benefits of skewing the body I feel it would be more comfortable to hold securely. realizing this is an extreme example but wat is easier to hold to your eye for extended periods of time, your camera, or a pair of binoculars? As for an eyepiece extender, I try to minimize items on the back of my camera as I often carry it while riding horses.(it takes a beating).

This whole thought came about when I was wondering what Pentax could do to recapture some of the market from the othe guys. At the time all the magazines were praising the K10's ergonomics, I just wondered what more could be done.

Isaac314 · 10-29-2008, 07:42 AM

A lot of crap answers here....

You know the bit where the play/trash/info buttons are? Where your left thumb likes to sit if its feeling lonely? I turn my head slightly to the left and nestle my nose in that pocket. Its very comfortable. Personally i find the eyepoint (?) of the k20d far to close. If i pull my eye away bit i cant see the edges of the frame. They should have made the hole bigger... I never had this problem in the MX even though the frame is massive.

shuie · 10-29-2008, 07:54 AM

one of my reasons for wanting this is I am left eye dominate, so I use my left eye. Also dont like the need to press my entire face against the camera while it is on a tripod to manually focus an image, an eyepiece extender may help but this is more of a why not do something different. At least with digital we dont have to worry about the mechanics of the film drive systems.

**Lowell Goudge** · 10-29-2008, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by shuie

one of my reasons for wanting this is I am left eye dominate, so I use my left eye. Also dont like the need to press my entire face against the camera while it is on a tripod to manually focus an image, an eyepiece extender may help but this is more of a why not do something different. At least with digital we dont have to worry about the mechanics of the film drive systems.

Ahh.

the truth comes out. I think what you really want is a camera that is reversed totally, or is that also a problem as you are right handed not left handed.

I guess this has never, EVER been addressed in camera design, as every camera in the world is designed for right eye dominant right handed people.

come to think about it, there was a survey for right eye dominant users a while back

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/28024-left-eye.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-pentax-photography/19773-do-you-u...-left-eye.html

shuie · 10-29-2008, 11:01 AM

Actually I don't want to change any control locations. I am right handed, just left eye dominant. Read a couple of threads where people said they felt they could focus better when there face was scrunched up to the camera body. What I envisioned would allow you to place your eye to the eyecup easier. I'm trying to find a side shot of a slr to edit so I can show approx what I mean. Guess I'd better get that k20 so I can take a pic of my K10

patrickt · 10-29-2008, 12:06 PM

I have some little cotton nose caps that I wear.

10-28-2008, 07:53 AM	#1
shuie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: colorado Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 140	skewed body design Didn't know where else to put this so here goes. Shortly after I got my k10 I got looking for ways to improve it. I wondered if there whould be an advantage to making the camera so the back of the camera was angled away from the face at the bottom. As I saw it it would prevent nose smear on the lcd, make it easier to get your eye, make it more ergonomic to grip. I contacted Pentax about this and they told me to send drawings.( I never did, sorry) Does anybody else think these features would be beneficial on a future DSLR?

10-28-2008, 05:11 PM	#6
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	Quote: I don't like what Canon have done with their 3" screens, putting them all the way to the left, real nose territory, at least Nikon with their big screens have kept it to the right a bit. Doesn't it depend if you are left or right nosed? Last edited by SpecialK; 10-29-2008 at 09:35 PM.

10-29-2008, 08:07 AM	#13
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by shuie one of my reasons for wanting this is I am left eye dominate, so I use my left eye. Also dont like the need to press my entire face against the camera while it is on a tripod to manually focus an image, an eyepiece extender may help but this is more of a why not do something different. At least with digital we dont have to worry about the mechanics of the film drive systems. Ahh. the truth comes out. I think what you really want is a camera that is reversed totally, or is that also a problem as you are right handed not left handed. I guess this has never, EVER been addressed in camera design, as every camera in the world is designed for right eye dominant right handed people. come to think about it, there was a survey for right eye dominant users a while back https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/28024-left-eye.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-pentax-photography/19773-do-you-u...-left-eye.html Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 10-29-2008 at 08:12 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
FA Limited lens series won the 2010 Good Design Long Life Design Award	Patriot	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	26	11-29-2010 06:16 AM
Nature Nature's design	JMR	Post Your Photos!	8	08-25-2010 05:42 AM
Pentax mirrorless camera in LX like design body	ogl	Pentax News and Rumors	94	03-23-2010 04:21 AM
Pentax K30D body design!	vitalsax	Pentax DSLR Discussion	23	01-14-2009 11:32 AM
News Design Changes	Adam	Site Suggestions and Help	5	01-25-2008 05:34 AM

10-28-2008, 10:06 AM	#2
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	whats wrong with buying an eye piece extention?

10-28-2008, 04:14 PM	#3
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	I'd have to see and hold it first before I can comment on that one! I don't like what Canon have done with their 3" screens, putting them all the way to the left, real nose territory, at least Nikon with their big screens have kept it to the right a bit.

10-28-2008, 04:14 PM	#4
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	Originally posted by Gooshin whats wrong with buying an eye piece extention? i think this desrves to be nominated for the reply of the year....

10-28-2008, 04:23 PM	#5
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	What's wrong with answering the question?

10-28-2008, 07:29 PM	#7
MoiVous Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 677	We'd have to see your suggestion, but this is a variation on either the eyepiece extender or (for those that remember) the top viewfinder the old Canon F1 and Nikon F used to have (you could swap the prisms!) Of course, if your not making maximal contact with the camera (including your nose!) its may not be as stable to hold - which is one of the reasons a lot of people move away from P&S or buy tripods Seriously though, I'm not really sure of the benefit in a nose space as the chassis manufacture would become more complex (odd shapes), and potentially less rigid (a box or sphere is structurally stronger in general) as well as complicating light paths (like the AF). So if you've got a thumbnail sketch lets have a look - and make sure you CC it to Pentax so you can claim the intellectual property if they follow through!

10-28-2008, 10:51 PM	#8
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	Shouldn't be any more difficult than the 645D prototype had... [imgwideleft]http://www.slrtoday.com/content_images/pentax645bigback.JPG[/imgwideleft] Why did they kill/postpone that anyway?

10-29-2008, 05:43 AM	#9
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by shuie Didn't know where else to put this so here goes. Shortly after I got my k10 I got looking for ways to improve it. I wondered if there whould be an advantage to making the camera so the back of the camera was angled away from the face at the bottom. As I saw it it would prevent nose smear on the lcd, make it easier to get your eye, make it more ergonomic to grip. I contacted Pentax about this and they told me to send drawings.( I never did, sorry) Does anybody else think these features would be beneficial on a future DSLR? Not to poke too much fun at you, but there is a serious technical reason the back of a camera is flat and at right angles to the lens. The back of the camera body is where the shutter and sensor are located (and before electroncis, the film plane) The only way to achieve what you want is to make the eyepeice further back and add a lot of additional bulk and weight to the camera. it is presently at its minimal dimensions front to back unless you want to change the lens mount distance to focal plane and scrap all past interchangability. (something like olympus did when going to 4/3) and then give up the volume advantage by making the camera stick out at the top

10-29-2008, 07:38 AM	#10
shuie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: colorado Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 140 Original Poster	Actually as I imagined it the body would be a little deeper than standard however the shutter and sensor mechanisms would be moved forward in the body to maintain the same focal plane. As for the benefits of skewing the body I feel it would be more comfortable to hold securely. realizing this is an extreme example but wat is easier to hold to your eye for extended periods of time, your camera, or a pair of binoculars? As for an eyepiece extender, I try to minimize items on the back of my camera as I often carry it while riding horses.(it takes a beating). This whole thought came about when I was wondering what Pentax could do to recapture some of the market from the othe guys. At the time all the magazines were praising the K10's ergonomics, I just wondered what more could be done.

10-29-2008, 07:42 AM	#11
Isaac314 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London Photos: Gallery Posts: 417	A lot of crap answers here.... You know the bit where the play/trash/info buttons are? Where your left thumb likes to sit if its feeling lonely? I turn my head slightly to the left and nestle my nose in that pocket. Its very comfortable. Personally i find the eyepoint (?) of the k20d far to close. If i pull my eye away bit i cant see the edges of the frame. They should have made the hole bigger... I never had this problem in the MX even though the frame is massive.

10-29-2008, 07:54 AM	#12
shuie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: colorado Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 140 Original Poster	one of my reasons for wanting this is I am left eye dominate, so I use my left eye. Also dont like the need to press my entire face against the camera while it is on a tripod to manually focus an image, an eyepiece extender may help but this is more of a why not do something different. At least with digital we dont have to worry about the mechanics of the film drive systems.

10-29-2008, 11:01 AM	#14
shuie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: colorado Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 140 Original Poster	Actually I don't want to change any control locations. I am right handed, just left eye dominant. Read a couple of threads where people said they felt they could focus better when there face was scrunched up to the camera body. What I envisioned would allow you to place your eye to the eyecup easier. I'm trying to find a side shot of a slr to edit so I can show approx what I mean. Guess I'd better get that k20 so I can take a pic of my K10

10-29-2008, 12:06 PM	#15
patrickt Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico Posts: 247	I have some little cotton nose caps that I wear.