What to do with an ist DL find?

kypfer · 05-18-2020, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Wasp

Now you placed the *istD family on my shopping list! They do turn up from time to time in the local classifieds, but I have always ignored them. All of a sudden I am developing a love for six megapixels. I assume that the ten megapixel K10D and K200D is not quite as IR sensitive. I have one of the latter so perhaps I should just get an IR filter and give it a go until the *istD of my dreams turns up. Either way, my GAS has suddenly found a new avenue to explore. .

This article Infrared Photography With A Pentax Digital SLR Part 1 implies that the newer the camera the less infra-red sensitive it is without modification. I simply don't know. I went straight from my *istDS to my K-5 and eventually discovered that the K-5 has virtually no usable sensitivity with an '87' filter fitted, though it will cope with an '89B' equivalent such as an R72 or Ilford SFX. Unfortunately the effect is not nearly as pronounced with an '89B' filter, the inherent red sensitivity of the sensor seems to overwhelm it ... the same is true of the CCD cameras as well.
I may sound a little blasé about all this, but I have these filters left over from my film days, when they were significantly less expensive than they are now

**DWS1** · 05-18-2020, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by RussV

There seems to be a wider range of greens and yellows from the ist. This is particularly obvious in the small green leaves.

This is what I thought I was seeing, but wasn't sure about it.

Originally posted by Wasp

...Very interesting! The CCD colors are just a little bit more saturated. A bit like Kodachrome versus Ektachrome in the days of old, I guess. For saturated colors in sunshine Kodachrome was the one. For low light work Ektachrome was available in higher ASA (called ISO nowadays) ratings.

I thought the same thing. I shot a good bit of both back in the day.

---------- Post added 05-18-20 at 06:21 PM ----------

Originally posted by kypfer

If you're at all interested, the old 6Megapixel sensors are quite infra-red sensitive, even without modification, compared to the more modern cameras, so an investment in a "proper" infra-red filter, eg a Wratten or Lee 87, can give excellent results. I use mine with a Cokin holder, so I've got a choice of lenses to work with.

Here's a shot I took recently with my unmodified *istD L2 through a Lee 87 filter.

This extra deep-red sensitivity may well be the reason for the perceived "warmth" in a lot of pictures generated by these older cameras. Personally, (and it is a personal thing), I find images from my *ist's are often perfectly acceptable straight from the camera, whereas some images from my newer cameras may need a little "help". Choice of lens will probably also feature in this equation, so it is a little ethereal

Some work has been done to produce settings for LightRoom to give the "CCD-look" to images taken with a CMOS-sensor camera, so it would seem there is some basis to the concept ... fine if you've got LightRoom

Enjoy!

I may try the infra-red filter route. I have the Cokin system. This looks like it could be fun and produce some very interesting results. Now I have to get another piece of gear. I guess it never ends.

Wasp · 05-19-2020, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by DWS1

Now I have to get another piece of gear. I guess it never ends.

I know the feeling. Fortunately or unfortunately - depending on one's point of view - any IR adventures on my part is not on the agenda right now.

There is a *ist DL on sale in the classifieds. The seller isn't even very far away. Unfortunately, he wants K10D money for it. I don't have the patience or the negotiation skills to reach out. Besides, all the camera workshops are locked down. So, a conversion is out. I will keep looking for a *ist anyway.

I have also looked around for IR filters. One local dealer lists the Cokin but it is a special order item. Every other local online store I could find is dodgy and/or greedy. That means an import, not really doable under the current lockdown situation.

Theov39 · 05-19-2020, 08:34 AM

On a semi-unrelated point, why have IR filters, esp IR72, suddenly become so expensive? They used to be so reasonably priced but now even a 52mm IR filter can be $40-60 and larger diameter filters much more than that. The tech behind them really is not that complex. Here is a good example of what I mean:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/122481-REG/Hoya_B77RM72_77mm_RM72_Infrared_Glass.html

kypfer · 05-20-2020, 12:44 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Theov39

On a semi-unrelated point, why have IR filters, esp IR72, suddenly become so expensive? They used to be so reasonably priced but now even a 52mm IR filter can be $40-60 and larger diameter filters much more than that. The tech behind them really is not that complex. Here is a good example of what I mean:

Hoya 77mm R72 Infrared Filter B-77RM72-GB B&H Photo Video

Probably a combination of two factors :-
Firstly, overall demand is down, "i/r effect" can be easily produced in software, so unless you've got good reason for wanting a genuine i/r image you don't "need" one.
Secondly, the marketplace is there to be exploited. If you really do need one, you'll have to pay for it.
The film manufacturers no longer control the i/r imaging market. They needed to sell filters so they could sell their film, so they kept the prices down to encourage sales of film. Aftermarket filter manufacturers had to keep their prices similarly low else they wouldn't sell any at all.
It's now mostly a fashionable domestic market, so, like growing your own vegetables or making your own preserves, all the ancillary equipment has soared in price

Theov39 · 05-20-2020, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by kypfer

Probably a combination of two factors :-
Firstly, overall demand is down, "i/r effect" can be easily produced in software, so unless you've got good reason for wanting a genuine i/r image you don't "need" one.
Secondly, the marketplace is there to be exploited. If you really do need one, you'll have to pay for it.
The film manufacturers no longer control the i/r imaging market. They needed to sell filters so they could sell their film, so they kept the prices down to encourage sales of film. Aftermarket filter manufacturers had to keep their prices similarly low else they wouldn't sell any at all.
It's now mostly a fashionable domestic market, so, like growing your own vegetables or making your own preserves, all the ancillary equipment has soared in price

Yes, that makes sense. Just like everything film related too..... it's now become a niche market with prices to match.

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05-18-2020, 03:36 PM	#16
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,594	Originally posted by Wasp Now you placed the istD family on my shopping list! They do turn up from time to time in the local classifieds, but I have always ignored them. All of a sudden I am developing a love for six megapixels. I assume that the ten megapixel K10D and K200D is not quite as IR sensitive. I have one of the latter so perhaps I should just get an IR filter and give it a go until the istD of my dreams turns up. Either way, my GAS has suddenly found a new avenue to explore. . This article Infrared Photography With A Pentax Digital SLR Part 1 implies that the newer the camera the less infra-red sensitive it is without modification. I simply don't know. I went straight from my *istDS to my K-5 and eventually discovered that the K-5 has virtually no usable sensitivity with an '87' filter fitted, though it will cope with an '89B' equivalent such as an R72 or Ilford SFX. Unfortunately the effect is not nearly as pronounced with an '89B' filter, the inherent red sensitivity of the sensor seems to overwhelm it ... the same is true of the CCD cameras as well. I may sound a little blasé about all this, but I have these filters left over from my film days, when they were significantly less expensive than they are now

05-18-2020, 06:13 PM	#17
DWS1 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 1,169 Original Poster	Originally posted by RussV There seems to be a wider range of greens and yellows from the ist. This is particularly obvious in the small green leaves. This is what I thought I was seeing, but wasn't sure about it. Originally posted by Wasp ...Very interesting! The CCD colors are just a little bit more saturated. A bit like Kodachrome versus Ektachrome in the days of old, I guess. For saturated colors in sunshine Kodachrome was the one. For low light work Ektachrome was available in higher ASA (called ISO nowadays) ratings. I thought the same thing. I shot a good bit of both back in the day. ---------- Post added 05-18-20 at 06:21 PM ---------- Originally posted by kypfer If you're at all interested, the old 6Megapixel sensors are quite infra-red sensitive, even without modification, compared to the more modern cameras, so an investment in a "proper" infra-red filter, eg a Wratten or Lee 87, can give excellent results. I use mine with a Cokin holder, so I've got a choice of lenses to work with. Here's a shot I took recently with my unmodified istD L2 through a Lee 87 filter. This extra deep-red sensitivity may well be the reason for the perceived "warmth" in a lot of pictures generated by these older cameras. Personally, (and it is a personal thing), I find images from my ist's are often perfectly acceptable straight from the camera, whereas some images from my newer cameras may need a little "help". Choice of lens will probably also feature in this equation, so it is a little ethereal Some work has been done to produce settings for LightRoom to give the "CCD-look" to images taken with a CMOS-sensor camera, so it would seem there is some basis to the concept ... fine if you've got LightRoom Enjoy! I may try the infra-red filter route. I have the Cokin system. This looks like it could be fun and produce some very interesting results. Now I have to get another piece of gear. I guess it never ends.

05-19-2020, 07:39 AM	#18
Wasp Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Pretoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,661	Originally posted by DWS1 Now I have to get another piece of gear. I guess it never ends. I know the feeling. Fortunately or unfortunately - depending on one's point of view - any IR adventures on my part is not on the agenda right now. There is a ist DL on sale in the classifieds. The seller isn't even very far away. Unfortunately, he wants K10D money for it. I don't have the patience or the negotiation skills to reach out. Besides, all the camera workshops are locked down. So, a conversion is out. I will keep looking for a ist anyway. I have also looked around for IR filters. One local dealer lists the Cokin but it is a special order item. Every other local online store I could find is dodgy and/or greedy. That means an import, not really doable under the current lockdown situation.

05-19-2020, 08:34 AM	#19
Theov39 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Sydney Posts: 594	On a semi-unrelated point, why have IR filters, esp IR72, suddenly become so expensive? They used to be so reasonably priced but now even a 52mm IR filter can be $40-60 and larger diameter filters much more than that. The tech behind them really is not that complex. Here is a good example of what I mean: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/122481-REG/Hoya_B77RM72_77mm_RM72_Infrared_Glass.html

05-20-2020, 12:44 AM - 1 Like	#20
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,594	Originally posted by Theov39 On a semi-unrelated point, why have IR filters, esp IR72, suddenly become so expensive? They used to be so reasonably priced but now even a 52mm IR filter can be $40-60 and larger diameter filters much more than that. The tech behind them really is not that complex. Here is a good example of what I mean: Hoya 77mm R72 Infrared Filter B-77RM72-GB B&H Photo Video Probably a combination of two factors :- Firstly, overall demand is down, "i/r effect" can be easily produced in software, so unless you've got good reason for wanting a genuine i/r image you don't "need" one. Secondly, the marketplace is there to be exploited. If you really do need one, you'll have to pay for it. The film manufacturers no longer control the i/r imaging market. They needed to sell filters so they could sell their film, so they kept the prices down to encourage sales of film. Aftermarket filter manufacturers had to keep their prices similarly low else they wouldn't sell any at all. It's now mostly a fashionable domestic market, so, like growing your own vegetables or making your own preserves, all the ancillary equipment has soared in price

05-20-2020, 02:36 AM	#21
Theov39 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Sydney Posts: 594	Originally posted by kypfer Probably a combination of two factors :- Firstly, overall demand is down, "i/r effect" can be easily produced in software, so unless you've got good reason for wanting a genuine i/r image you don't "need" one. Secondly, the marketplace is there to be exploited. If you really do need one, you'll have to pay for it. The film manufacturers no longer control the i/r imaging market. They needed to sell filters so they could sell their film, so they kept the prices down to encourage sales of film. Aftermarket filter manufacturers had to keep their prices similarly low else they wouldn't sell any at all. It's now mostly a fashionable domestic market, so, like growing your own vegetables or making your own preserves, all the ancillary equipment has soared in price Yes, that makes sense. Just like everything film related too..... it's now become a niche market with prices to match.