[Ash]

There's no doubt over the extra versatility, features and performance of the K10D - it really comes down to whether you 'need' them. If so, then get it - if you want more, go K20D.

Basically, buy the camera that has you want in it and is the best you want to spend the money on...

[mapov]

Thanks Mickey and Davek for the answers.
"The only downside, is that the 2 cameras handle differently." Could you explain?
As i said, I use my DSLR for:
1/gardens and landscapes pictures.
2/concerts. For that, i thought shake reduction could be useful, but if the k10 has less isos performance, i would still prefer my ds. What'is your opinion?

One more question: is the manual focus much easy with the k10? (i loose lot time with the ds). The red light is erratic and the sound can't decently be turned on.

[offertonhatter]

I have both the DS and K10D, along with the K20D, which will probably confuse you more.

The K10D is indeed a great upgrade (18000 photos and counting) with a superior IQ of the DS, up to 1000ISO.

One or two issues I have found with the K10D (might be just mine) is that manual focus is far better on the DS, I have never really had good MF with the K10D, always seemed to be out of focus, no matter what I did (diopter adjustment etc), also, older lenses seemed more suited to the DS over the K10D.

The K20D on the other hand, is spot on, like the DS, with better still IQ.

You will find that the K10D will be excellent for Landscapes, and indeed concerts (you can always convert the images to B+W with the noise there as "artistic"

Personally I would stretch to the K20D, due to the better IQ, and fixing some of the K10D faults,but if your funds cannot stretch that far, go for the K10D, as it is overall a superior camera to the DS in most situations.

In case you are wondering I still have the DS, and still use it quite a lot.

Hope this helps

[Ben_Edict]

Only point in favour of the Ds is that it works on AA batteries. I have a charger for them that works in the car, so I can charge while driving. Such a charger is not in my kit for the K10d/Li50 batteries. That is a pity.

So now I have some spare batterys for K10d so I will not sit short of power.

Buy a cheap car charger off ebay. I have one of those and it works flawlessly. I even use this Chinese cheapo product with a power plug for charging off the mains, because it is much faster than the original Pentax charger.

Ben

[davek]

"The only downside, is that the 2 cameras handle differently." Could you explain?

The 10D interface is different from the DS in that there are two wheels on the K10D, more buttons to allow faster access to commonly used functions.

On occasions when I carry both bodies, long lens on the K10D & short lens on the DS, I try to spin the (missing) front wheel on the DS. It takes a bit of thought when switching between cameras.

K10D is great for landscapes. I use both for concerts, depending on the light.

I'd also second Ben's suggestion to get a third party battery & charger (I also have a grip). For me, the K10D with grip & 2 batteries trump the DS ability to shoot with AAs. I got a battery & charger off ebay for around $20.

[Marc Sabatella]

One or two issues I have found with the K10D (might be just mine) is that manual focus is far better on the DS, I have never really had good MF with the K10D

Got to be just yours. Could be a poorly adjusted focus screen.

also, older lenses seemed more suited to the DS over the K10D.

If you mean, the fact that the metering with "M" series lenses can be flaky with the K10D, that one is not just you - most K10D owners report this, too.

[Marc Sabatella]

"The only downside, is that the 2 cameras handle differently." Could you explain?

Different button layout. The K10D and K20D have, for instance, both front and rear control dials, while the DS has just the rear. If you get used to one, it can be awkward switching to the other - and most people prefer the K10D/K20D system.

2/concerts. For that, i thought shake reduction could be useful, but if the k10 has less isos performance, i would still prefer my ds. What'is your opinion?

As I've mentioned before, some K10D's appear to do better at high ISO than others. If you get one of the really bad ones, then I'd say it would be worse for concert shooting. But if you get one of the good ones, you'll find high ISO performance to be just as good as the DS when comparing images of the same size (eg, when not blowing up the K10D image larger by viewing them both at 100%). I have the K200D, which is the same sensor as the K10D and seems immune to the high ISO problems that some K10D's suffer. There is absolutely no question on looking at my shots over the years that I get beter results with the K200D than I did with the DS. Here's a recent ISO 1600 example from the K200D (again, same sensor as K10D):

One more question: is the manual focus much easy with the k10? (i loose lot time with the ds). The red light is erratic and the sound can't decently be turned on.

Manual focus is identical between the K10D and DS (K200D has a slightly smaller viewfinder, so it's slightly harder). I don't find the light useful; I focus by actually focusing as opposed to trusting the light. It can be tricky with wide aperture lenses, since the DOF shown in the DOF will be more than what you get in the actual picture. Meaning there will *always* be things in focus in the viewfidner but not in the picture when shooting at large apertures. It takes practice to learn to deal with this, but the first step is recognizing the issue. Test this yourself using a newspaper shot at an angle...

[offertonhatter]

Got to be just yours. Could be a poorly adjusted focus screen.



If you mean, the fact that the metering with "M" series lenses can be flaky with the K10D, that one is not just you - most K10D owners report this, too.

It might be, I will have the focus screen looked at, might be that it has got knocked (although I am normally careful)

I have heard about M and K lenses and the problems with the K10D, again, it might be the focus screen.

Thanks for this.

[Marc Sabatella]

I will have the focus screen looked at, might be that it has got knocked (although I am normally careful)

The focus screen was designed to be user-replaceable. I'd suggest simply removing it and putting it back in and see if it seats better.

I have heard about M and K lenses and the problems with the K10D

Exposure problems, sure - and the screen does get involved with that. But I've never heard anyone else complain about MF problems (aside from general complains about it being hard due to no split screen, or DOF being shallower than the screen can show).

[Ben_Edict]

Exposure problems, sure - and the screen does get involved with that. But I've never heard anyone else complain about MF problems (aside from general complains about it being hard due to no split screen, or DOF being shallower than the screen can show).

I exchanged my K10 focusing screen against the LL-60, grid screen of the istD series. That at least minimized the expsoure problems with the manual lenses.

Ben

[PDL]

I have both the *istDs and the K10D.

I like both of them. The K10D gives more control, using the two wheels - while the *istDs requires you to use the menu. The extra 4 MP and shake reduction have assisted me, I find that I am using SR as a crutch (same on my K20D - another story).

The K10D - if the price is right - is a really nice upgrade from the *istDs, but you can take wonderfull images with the *istDs -- hint PENTAX Photo Gallery mostly *istDs with one K10D image. The "Aroaki / Mt Cook 1" image was printed at 20x30 and is hanging in my wifes office - came out beautiful - so much for can't print large images from 6MP.

The K10D is a very nice camera, my son preferrs the *istDs because it is smaller and lighter. I like the K10D/K20D because of the IQ and SR - although I am trying to learn how to get away from using SR as a crutch. (Have to remember to wait until the shutter has finished before moving the camera - motion blurr by bad technique is my fault, not the camera's)

If you can get a K10D for a good price - you will not be disappointed - fine machine. The K20D is even better -- more control.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

[bdp1]

You probably can get the keys on the old camera to work like new again by going to Radio Shack and asking for 'tuner cleaner'. Use this spray can to squirt a tiny amount of fluid under the edges of the key and then press the key a bunch to get it to respond again. It costs less than $15 and it really works. It's also good for any other electronics with key buttons or switches that don't work well, assuming you can get the fluid down inside the switch.

If you are using the basic kit lens, you may wish to consider continuing to use the DS and instead spend the money on a better lens, such as a macro prime lens for the floral photos. You can get several great used primes for the cost of a K10.

[Canada_Rockies]

It might be, I will have the focus screen looked at, might be that it has got knocked (although I am normally careful)

I have heard about M and K lenses and the problems with the K10D, again, it might be the focus screen.

Thanks for this.

I am the happy owner of a k10d and three manual focus lenses. I do not have a great deal of trouble manually focusing any of my lenses, but I did grow up with nothing but a matte screen for focusing with my original 1957 Pentax bought used in 1961 and used until 1978 or so. You can get it if you practise. Pretend you are the autofocus motor and work back and forth across the focus point in smaller and smaller arcs. You will train your eye to see the perfect focus point after a while. It's half way between the blurry parts. <G>

[PDL]

I am the happy owner of a k10d and three manual focus lenses. I do not have a great deal of trouble manually focusing any of my lenses, but I did grow up with nothing but a matte screen for focusing with my original 1957 Pentax bought used in 1961 and used until 1978 or so. You can get it if you practise. Pretend you are the autofocus motor and work back and forth across the focus point in smaller and smaller arcs. You will train your eye to see the perfect focus point after a while. It's half way between the blurry parts. <G>

I believe that I just said this.

Anyway - just be careful with non-Pentax or non-DA series Pentax lenses that use the AF screw. Using manual focus on these lenses, without disengaging the AF screw - can damage the camera ---===>>> break it.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

[Canada_Rockies]

I believe that I just said this.

Anyway - just be careful with non-Pentax or non-DA series Pentax lenses that use the AF screw. Using manual focus on these lenses, without disengaging the AF screw - can damage the camera ---===>>> break it.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

Good point about AF lenses. I was referring, of course, to my MF lenses. And I also agree that my post worked out to be just a different wording from yours. Mea culpa.