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11-09-2008, 07:59 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
......... as much as there are wonderful M series optics, it makes better sense to move on and use DA or FA series lenses to reap the full benefits of being able to use every exposure and metering mode.

The lack of an optical preview is not a major issue imo, yet another reason to use newer lenses with this camera. On the K-m, there is still a digital preview, which can be allocated to the (Help) button.
Agree with you that using DA/FA series lenses would be optimum. I do however want to understand the limitations I would have with utilizing my M optics, especially with regards to metering. I guess I would just have to bring along my old fashioned incident meter.

11-09-2008, 09:24 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentHassyKon Quote
Agree with you that using DA/FA series lenses would be optimum. I do however want to understand the limitations I would have with utilizing my M optics, especially with regards to metering. I guess I would just have to bring along my old fashioned incident meter.
Why bother when you have the benefit of an LCD to review plus you get to have a histogram overlay for both brightness and RGB channels plus option to display Bright/Dark area warning.
11-09-2008, 10:12 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentHassyKon Quote
On the K2000 - metering with Pentax-M lenses involves some button gyrations - right? Sounds like I can't even meter without pressing additional buttons.

While on the K200/K20 - no button gyrations?
All Pentax DSLR's require some gyrations to use M lenses. You have to use "M" mode - none of the auto-exposure modes work. And while you set the aperture with the ring, the camera is oblivious to this (unlike what was the case with most film cameras). So the meter cannot display meaningful info without stopping the lens down. On all Pentax DSLR's, you can press a button to *momentarily* stop down and have the camera meter and set an appropriate shutter speed. The lens immediately returns to wide open and the meter display shuts off. You can certainly trust the camera's setting, or use your instincts to adjust it further, but you can't get constant feedback from the meter. Unless you use the (optical) DOF preview, which stops the lens down and *leaves* it stopped down as long as you hold the lever. In that case, the meter displays constantly, so you can adjust shutter speed and/or aperture and watch the meter update in real time. This is what you cannot do with the K2000 - no optical DOF preview.

QuoteQuote:
The other issue I can see here is that the camera will no longer act like a P&S - not an issue for me as I understand shutter speed/aperture relationship to exposure but this will be an issue for my spouse in terms of usability.
Correct. But again, only when dealing with fully manual lenses (eg, "M" series). Modern lenses work fine, as do "A" series manual focus lenses (they have auto-exposure capabilities).
11-09-2008, 12:20 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Why bother when you have the benefit of an LCD to review plus you get to have a histogram overlay for both brightness and RGB channels plus option to display Bright/Dark area warning.
QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
All Pentax DSLR's require some gyrations to use M lenses. You have to use "M" mode - none of the auto-exposure modes work. And while you set the aperture with the ring, the camera is oblivious to this (unlike what was the case with most film cameras). So the meter cannot display meaningful info without stopping the lens down. On all Pentax DSLR's, you can press a button to *momentarily* stop down and have the camera meter and set an appropriate shutter speed. The lens immediately returns to wide open and the meter display shuts off. You can certainly trust the camera's setting, or use your instincts to adjust it further, but you can't get constant feedback from the meter. Unless you use the (optical) DOF preview, which stops the lens down and *leaves* it stopped down as long as you hold the lever. In that case, the meter displays constantly, so you can adjust shutter speed and/or aperture and watch the meter update in real time. This is what you cannot do with the K2000 - no optical DOF preview.
.
I guess in the end for me all these gyrations really doesn't matter as I'm someone who I'm confident can use the camera regardless of the gyrations I'd have to do.
I'm someone who used camera gear with the old sunny F16 rule, shutter speed same as ASA (that's what they use to call ISO ), manually focus the lens, and wind the film.
Why am I now complaining that I can't use auto-exposure, auto-focus, etc.? I really have to get over it and just go get one and use it and learn
I have to do a paradigm shift where the photographer is in control of different aspects of the canvas now - auto-iso, pixel peeping, photoshop (which in my film world would be the darkroom).

11-21-2008, 06:04 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentHassyKon Quote
.....

Costco currently has the K20D for $899 and the K200D 2 lens kit for $749

Looks like I should wait for any Thanksgiving promotions, especially for the K2000. I'm hoping retailers will bring that down to $450 or so as I think the K200 will go to ~$500 with the K20 ~$700-750. Obviously this is all wishful thinking on my part, but we'll have to wait and see.
Well, the week b4 thanksgiving and costco now has the k200d 2 lens kit for $699 +shipping
Amazon has the k2000 for $643 and change.

At this price I don't see a compelling reason why the K-m/K2000
I'm gonna wait till after Thanksgiving to see how the prices go....

For now, I borrowed a D60
12-11-2008, 11:43 PM   #51
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Decision made ....

Weeks later .....

D60 returned (had it for Thanksgiving) last week. I can post pics, but i don't think that would be wise in Pentax forum unless a comparison pic with a Pentax is provided.

Costco:
k200d w 2 lens, still 699
k20d 1 lens, 799 (now gone)

Amazon
k20d, kit lens: 700-800 (700: Adorama; 800: Amazon)
k200d, kit lens: 560, give or take 10 (it went to around 550 sometimes)
k2000: 600

I won't be ashamed to say I tried to take advantage of the Adorama $239 k20d boo-boo. I can't complain that it was cancelled though

I wanted to keep the price to below $450, so I started eyeing a lot of the marketplace ads here. K100d, k100d super, k10d during this past month there were quite a few offered up.

In the end, I couldn't pass up the Cyber Monday 10% eBay coupon coupled with 30% MSN live cashback for 40% off - I pulled the trigger on a k200d from 17th st photo. I debated long and hard whether to get the kit lens or get a K20d. In the end I opted for the smaller body of the k200/k2000 and the AA's. Even though I could probably get the k2000 cheaper, I ruled out the k2000 due to the gyrations I'd have to do with using my legacy Pentax-M lenses (metering and visual focus confirmation). Timewise, I wanted to be able to use during xmas and before the travelingniftyfifty came to me.

Camera arrived this past Monday.
I was pleasantly surprised that a free Pentax brand "digital SLR" bag was provided although I doubt it would be of much use to me. I was even more pleasantly surprised to see that my 50mm is actually a 1.4 rather than the 1.7 that I thought it was. I can't wait to post pics for travelingniftyfifty with the A lens.

I will now take some time for a while to get acquainted with my new "paintbrush". I'm quite sure I will be posting with more questions eventually (use of wireless flash, 18-250 lens, etc...).
For now, Thanks to all here and my endless reading of posts by all here on this thread on this forum, I'm confident I made the right choice. After all, it is just a camera - right?

Before I forget:
Merry Christmas to all!!!

Last edited by PentHassyKon; 12-11-2008 at 11:47 PM. Reason: added nifty fifty verbage.
12-12-2008, 05:49 AM   #52
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Welcome to the club! Now you can get down to painting as you so nicely put it! Don't forget to read the manual too - it has a remarkable amount of useful info!

Cheers
12-12-2008, 08:52 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by MoiVous Quote
Welcome to the club! Now you can get down to painting as you so nicely put it! Don't forget to read the manual too - it has a remarkable amount of useful info!

Cheers
Thank you Chris-

With the $ saved over getting the K20d I'm thinking of getting one of those multipurpose long and wide brushes, 18-250; First, I need to know how to use the brush it came with.

I just took some shots with my old brush + on-board flash - yikes! Looks like auto flash doesn't work with MF lens. Time to read manual and also use "search"

12-12-2008, 09:42 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentHassyKon Quote
I just took some shots with my old brush + on-board flash - yikes! Looks like auto flash doesn't work with MF lens. Time to read manual and also use "search"
With a lens without the A-setting on the aperture ring the on-board flash always flashes with full power. You'll have to use full manual by calculating the F-stop
(flash-GN / distance = F-stop) or easier: use an (old) external flash with auto setting.

If you plan using an old external flash, be sure to check the voltage first:

Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages
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