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06-21-2020, 01:54 AM   #1
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K-1 Crop mode vs KP

I had an interesting thought recently, that perhaps I was underrating the K-1's crop mode and it's usefulness.

As some of you may know I have a KP and K-1 and lenses for each body. I am not at all adverse to using some DA lenses on the K-1 and deriving some decent results in FFM (Full Frame Mode);

HD DA 55-300PLM on K-1 (Full Frame Mode) | Flickr

DA 12-24 on K-1 (Full Frame Mode) | Flickr

HD DA 20-40 on K-1 (Full Frame Mode) | Flickr

It's only been recently with the 55-300PLM (and shooting birds, something which is relatively new to me) that has made me rethink the K-1 in CM (Crop Mode) as a viable option. At the last Pentaxian meet-up I met the wonderful Brad Le Brocque (I dunno if he is a member around here?), and he was talking to me about a bug that the K-1 has in Crop mode in that flash doesn't work (or something like that). What impressed me the most however was the incredible burst rate that the K-1 got in CM when he demonstrated this bug, I wasn't really at the time aware the K-1 could fire that fast. So here's some stat differences between the K-1 in CM and KP;

K-1
6.4fps
50 RAW
100 Jpg
16mp


KP
7fps
9 RAW
37 Jpg
24mp

So there we have some interesting comparisons. The K-1 has almost the same max burst rate as the KP, with a far deeper buffer (50 RAW) with seemingly the only draw back being 16mp vs the KP's 24mp. Could another advantage be that the K-1 in CM has more AF points available around that part of the sensor/crop vs KP? Thus able to get sharper shots on the edges than perhaps what the KP might manage on it's edges?

I'm now wondering the difference in IQ between a 16mp K-1 file vs a 24mp KP. Will it be night and day? Of course all this will change when the new K-new hits the market I'm sure.


Cheers,

BB

06-21-2020, 02:18 AM - 2 Likes   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I had an interesting thought recently, that perhaps I was underrating the K-1's crop mode and it's usefulness.

As some of you may know I have a KP and K-1 and lenses for each body. I am not at all adverse to using some DA lenses on the K-1 and deriving some decent results in FFM (Full Frame Mode);

HD DA 55-300PLM on K-1 (Full Frame Mode) | Flickr

DA 12-24 on K-1 (Full Frame Mode) | Flickr

HD DA 20-40 on K-1 (Full Frame Mode) | Flickr

It's only been recently with the 55-300PLM (and shooting birds, something which is relatively new to me) that has made me rethink the K-1 in CM (Crop Mode) as a viable option. At the last Pentaxian meet-up I met the wonderful Brad Le Brocque (I dunno if he is a member around here?), and he was talking to me about a bug that the K-1 has in Crop mode in that flash doesn't work (or something like that). What impressed me the most however was the incredible burst rate that the K-1 got in CM when he demonstrated this bug, I wasn't really at the time aware the K-1 could fire that fast. So here's some stat differences between the K-1 in CM and KP;

K-1
6.4fps
50 RAW
100 Jpg
16mp


KP
7fps
9 RAW
37 Jpg
24mp

So there we have some interesting comparisons. The K-1 has almost the same max burst rate as the KP, with a far deeper buffer (50 RAW) with seemingly the only draw back being 16mp vs the KP's 24mp. Could another advantage be that the K-1 in CM has more AF points available around that part of the sensor/crop vs KP? Thus able to get sharper shots on the edges than perhaps what the KP might manage on it's edges?

I'm now wondering the difference in IQ between a 16mp K-1 file vs a 24mp KP. Will it be night and day? Of course all this will change when the new K-new hits the market I'm sure.


Cheers,

BB
The K-1 crop mode is essentially a K5IIs with better specs around it. Read what people wrote about IQ of the K5 and K5II/s and you know that IQ was never a problem of these cameras. When I look at my K-5 images taken years ago I‘m always astonished. IQ simply is great and K1 and KP are only better if you raise ISO to higher levels ... based on my raw editing.
06-21-2020, 02:25 AM - 2 Likes   #3
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IQ in crop mode is going to be same as IQ in FF mode. Any object you examine in your picture will be made from the same number of pixels irrespective of the mode crop or FF.

All crop mode does is ....well.... crop the FF image!

I have cropped very heavily without loss of IQ with the K1.

The faster processing times are a bonus if you are shooting say wildlife/sports and would be cropping the FF image size anyway.
06-21-2020, 02:39 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
IQ in crop mode is going to be same as IQ in FF mode. Any object you examine in your picture will be made from the same number of pixels irrespective of the mode crop or FF.

All crop mode does is ....well.... crop the FF image!

I have cropped very heavily without loss of IQ with the K1.

The faster processing times are a bonus if you are shooting say wildlife/sports and would be cropping the FF image size anyway.
I meant as in, will I see a significant difference in IQ on an 24mp image (KP) compared to the 16mp (when it comes to editing time etc). I'm going to have to test that out for myself I think. It's been awhile since I worked with a 16mp file (K-5) and tbh I don't often reduce a K-1 file in a crop (at 3:2) down to 16mp to compare that much.

06-21-2020, 03:17 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I meant as in, will I see a significant difference in IQ on an 24mp image (KP) compared to the 16mp (when it comes to editing time etc). I'm going to have to test that out for myself I think. It's been awhile since I worked with a 16mp file (K-5) and tbh I don't often reduce a K-1 file in a crop (at 3:2) down to 16mp to compare that much.
If you print your images you may find a difference. For viewing on the web, I doubt it. All my pictures posted to the web are a maximum of 3.1MP
06-21-2020, 03:35 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote

I'm now wondering the difference in IQ between a 16mp K-1 file vs a 24mp KP. Will it be night and day?
The better the lens the more difference. Lensrentals did a write up on this.
Dxomark tests lenses on different cameras if you can believe them based on a single copy or worse, a different copy on each body.
The 50mm macro on k5iis scores 11 and on k3 12. The sigma 35art score a 13 and 16. But already at the slightly less level of the dfa 100mm wr they both score 10.
Pentax smc D FA MACRO 100mm F2.8 WR - DxOMark
06-21-2020, 08:09 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I'm now wondering the difference in IQ between a 16mp K-1 file vs a 24mp KP. Will it be night and day? Of course all this will change when the new K-new hits the market I'm sure.
The same difference as between the KP and the K-5. Accounts from users on this site when the K-3 was released indicated a need for additional user diligence in regards to focus and camera motion. Working the other way and there is the potential for better signal to noise ratio with the K-1. Of course, you have both the KP and K-1 in hand and can judge for yourself. At the very least, the KP allows for greater freedom to crop in PP.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-21-2020 at 08:15 AM.
06-21-2020, 08:24 AM - 1 Like   #8
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Following this line of reasoning is how I sold my k3ii and some apsc lenses, after deciding I can just use crop mode on the k1ii. Looking back at my decision, maybe I should have tried using just the k1ii for at least a month before selling the k3ii. What I missed the most was having a lighter weight camera for hiking/biking.In addition to the k1ii, I eventually got a panasonic g95 mft camera for my lightweight setup (with the kit zoom) and a second lens for wildlife. I'm primarily now using the k1ii with the 43 and 100 primes. Overall, it works better for me, but it did require some gear shuffling to get here

06-21-2020, 08:29 AM - 1 Like   #9
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If you have a K1, the apsc body is either for more tele reach or lighter packing.
Crop mode is possible, but a serious criterion to select a camera. Half the viewfinder area is not used...
06-21-2020, 08:51 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
If you have a K1, the apsc body is either for more tele reach
More "tele reach" only makes sense if you specify the MP of the apsc being used.

I still have my old K10. That certainly does not have more "tele reach" that the K1
06-21-2020, 09:37 AM   #11
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When you shoot a couple of shots with a lens both in full-frame mode and crop-mode on the K-1, does the depth of field change between images for a set f-stop?
06-21-2020, 10:40 AM - 2 Likes   #12
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This is why I don't use crop mode. I find it to be a lot of extra work to keep my subject in frame using crop mode. It doesn't do much good if I can get twice the number of frames when in many of them the subject is not where it should be. I find it much better to not rely on spray and pray and crop in post instead.

For me I only half wish for a higher frame rate on my k-1. I do miss the cool sound a fast firing shutter makes, especially when I am standing next to somebody who can hear it. I don't miss all the extra frames I have to go through in post.

---------- Post added 06-21-20 at 10:42 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
If you have a K1, the apsc body is either for more tele reach or lighter packing.
Crop mode is possible, but a serious criterion to select a camera. Half the viewfinder area is not used...
This is why I don't use crop mode. I find it to be a lot of extra work to keep my subject in frame using crop mode. It doesn't do much good if I can get twice the number of frames when in many of them the subject is not where it should be. I find it much better to not rely on spray and pray and crop in post instead.

For me I only half wish for a higher frame rate on my k-1. I do miss the cool sound a fast firing shutter makes, especially when I am standing next to somebody who can hear it. I don't miss all the extra frames I have to go through in post.
06-21-2020, 12:36 PM - 2 Likes   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
When you shoot a couple of shots with a lens both in full-frame mode and crop-mode on the K-1, does the depth of field change between images for a set f-stop?
This is where the whole DOF vs FF/aps-c is a nonsense. A K1 shot at FF , cropped in post to the same fov as the crop-mode image shows the same dof. Crop it more and it will show less. Crop it less it will show more.

DOF is dependent on image size and viewing distance. Your original question as it stands is pointless, you need to define an image size. DOF does not exist in a vacuum.
06-21-2020, 08:53 PM - 1 Like   #14
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Did a test shot today;

KP


K-1




There's a difference in composition due to different camera heights, and different colours and ambient light between the two images, but no additional sharpening or anything has went on. Not bad, definitely usable from the K-1.
06-21-2020, 09:40 PM   #15
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Slight more seperation of the 'm' in 300ml and detail in the hops but wouldn't notice without pixel peeping.
Now try with your sharpest lens. I bet there is more difference.
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