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07-22-2020, 06:13 AM - 2 Likes   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I somewhere, in a photo magazine, I read that there was a mount between FD and the current EOS that canon had offered an adaptor for, exclusively to pros so they didn’t have to scrap their current lenses. That makes cannon changing their mounts 3 times in slr game, not counting the cropped sensor smaller lenses and mount that left no full frame upgrade path.

What made canon different than Pentax, and Nikon, is that cannon offered no back compatibility but it seems they don’t care, or they are big enough to adapt a take it or leave it position

They deserve to be left, IMO
That's the reason why I left Olympus when they killed 4/3. I always asked the question, if they're not loyal to their base customers, will the leave m4/3 in the future. We'll in the end they ditched the camera industry.

That's also one of the reasons why I chose Pentax. The long history of support of the k-mount. Sure I was upset that he k-5ii/s series can't use the KAF4. But at least newer bodies can still use older lenses.

07-22-2020, 06:40 AM   #32
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I have a K-5 II and while it feels a little limiting to not be able to use KAF4 lenses there's not much on that list today I would really want. I can't think of any, actually, that I would spend my money on right now. Not that they aren't good, I just wouldn't bother with them on a crop body at the level of performance provided by the K-5 II.


If I really had to use a KAF4 lens right now I would go shopping for a KP. I think, money no object, waiting for the next K crop body or going for a K-1 makes the most sense in this case.
07-22-2020, 07:36 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I somewhere, in a photo magazine, I read that there was a mount between FD and the current EOS that canon had offered an adaptor for, exclusively to pros so they didn’t have to scrap their current lenses. That makes cannon changing their mounts 3 times in slr game, not counting the cropped sensor smaller lenses and mount that left no full frame upgrade path.

What made canon different than Pentax, and Nikon, is that cannon offered no back compatibility but it seems they don’t care, or they are big enough to adapt a take it or leave it position

They deserve to be left, IMO

If you remember where you read that please post it. I loved through the fd to eos era and my father was in the industry in multiple capacities and I don't recall that 3rd mount.

I do recall reading about the original R mount which preceded FL mount lenses, but it was a short lived lineup. Canon has a history of leaving photographers holding the bag and abandoning lens mounts.

Last edited by UncleVanya; 07-22-2020 at 07:46 AM.
07-22-2020, 09:34 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
If you remember where you read that please post it. I loved through the fd to eos era and my father was in the industry in multiple capacities and I don't recall that 3rd mount.

I do recall reading about the original R mount which preceded FL mount lenses, but it was a short lived lineup. Canon has a history of leaving photographers holding the bag and abandoning lens mounts.
Actually, I think there might be a reference to the exact article here on PF. I wrote to the editor because they were discussing lens compatibility and adaptors, and had omitted Pentax, and specifically the AF 1.7x adaptor. A forum member actually saw the published comment and posted it here. I will search to find the link back to the publication.

Edit note.

I found the link To the post on PDF

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/137-photographic-industry-professionals/...-good-one.html

And also tracked down the original article on shutterbug

https://www.shutterbug.com/content/something-old-something-new-are-“older”-3...-d-slr-cameras

Seems they had 2 different adaptors but no reference to 2 different lens mounts.

From what I recall I think they had a manual focus mount between FD and EOS that was very short lived, but I don’t now recall the reference. It might even have been my BIL that dropped cannon when they went to AF and replaced it with Nikon because they were not committed to the mount.


Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 07-22-2020 at 10:02 AM.
07-22-2020, 10:04 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
There's an EVF in every DSLR, Wasp. That thing on the back. Put a Hoodman loupe or similar on it, if you like.
True, but it's not quite the same. I would rather not be seen in public with a great big loupe thing on the back of my camera.

To be pedantic, only DSLRs with live view can do this. A loupe on my K200D, for instance, would make the menus more readable or I perhaps could use it to pixel peep in playback mode.

Last edited by Wasp; 07-22-2020 at 10:15 AM.
07-22-2020, 10:48 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
True, but it's not quite the same. I would rather not be seen in public with a great big loupe thing on the back of my camera.

To be pedantic, only DSLRs with live view can do this. A loupe on my K200D, for instance, would make the menus more readable or I perhaps could use it to pixel peep in playback mode.
K-200D?
Please tell me you have a Pentax body newer than a K-200D.
I'd rather not be seen in public with a K-200D, so I guess it's all about what we'd be seen in public with now.

Last edited by normhead; 07-22-2020 at 10:55 AM.
07-22-2020, 11:29 AM - 3 Likes   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
K-200D?
Please tell me you have a Pentax body newer than a K-200D.
I'd rather not be seen in public with a K-200D, so I guess it's all about what we'd be seen in public with now.
I do have a K-x but it needs duct tape to hold the batteries in. The bottom plate is cracked. I don't mind being seen in public with a K200D or K-x, even with duct tape.

07-22-2020, 12:47 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote

Of course, the change from DSLR to mirrorless is not really very fundamental at all, they are just different ways of seeing the subject before the shot. The resulting shot will be the same. Both methods pre-view TTL, use basically the same lenses lenses, and identical sensors. The change is nothing like film to digital, or even rangefinder to SLR, but it gives the salesmen something to work on, and I do think they will have a tough time.

Last year I set out to purchase a full frame Canon body. I tried the RP and the 6dmk2. I really did not like the smaller size of the RP body. Also, the EVF is nowhere near true optical quality. The RP felt like a slightly oversized Panasonic mirrorless.

I tried taking a a few test shots with both cameras, and I really did not like the feel of the RP. I own two mirrorless cameras (Panasonic), so it's not like I wasn't familiar with EVF; the design/ergonomics of the RP was off for me. The grip and design of the 6dmk2 balanced perfectly well with my 16-35mm f4.0 L. Placing any lens larger than a small prime on the RP made it feel awkward and out of balance. So, I ended up purchasing the 6dmk2 without any regrets (at the time). Had I known Canon's plan in advance I definitely would not have wasted my money on the 6dmk2.

On a side note, 3 months after purchasing that 6dmk2, I tried to sell it together with my Canon lenses (16-35mm f4.0L, 70-200mm f2.8L), but was only made an offer for less than half the price I paid for the body! I decided to keep it and purchase a few primes (28mm f1.8 USM, 35mm f2.0 IS, 85mm f1.8 USM and 50mm f1.8 STM). There is no way I will ever recoup 1/4 of what I paid, so I'm stuck with that system.
07-22-2020, 02:24 PM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by snegron1 Quote
Last year I set out to purchase a full frame Canon body. I tried the RP and the 6dmk2. I really did not like the smaller size of the RP body. Also, the EVF is nowhere near true optical quality. The RP felt like a slightly oversized Panasonic mirrorless.
EOS R feels better in hand than RP and has better EVF also. But, I think that R5 will offer a OVF kind of experience with its resolution and 120fps refresh rate. RP is a great travel and all around camera due to size and weight, but as you said, it's unbalanced with bigger lenses and its grip doesn't help too much either.

QuoteOriginally posted by snegron1 Quote
So, I ended up purchasing the 6dmk2 without any regrets (at the time). Had I known Canon's plan in advance I definitely would not have wasted my money on the 6dmk2.
Your lenses will work without any compromise on RP, R and I assume that this is also valid with R6 and R5. There is no reason to sell your lenses if you go to mirrorless in the future.

QuoteOriginally posted by snegron1 Quote
There is no way I will ever recoup 1/4 of what I paid, so I'm stuck with that system.
What's your concern? You have one exceptional lens, the 16-35mm f4L, which will be a strong performer with high resolution cameras also. You have the 70-200mm f2.8L lens that will focus on EOS R better than on 6D Mark II and probably even better on R6 and R5. The primes you have are cheap and can be replaced with similars once the RF versions will be release...

So that you understand my point, I replaced my 5D Mark IV with EOS R after extensive testing and I won't replace my EF L lenses until I will have a good reason to do it. A few lenses are in bad shape due to extensive use so those will be replaced with RF lenses. But going to mirrorless for you means at this point only replacing the body first and in time you can replace the lenses also.

It was obvious that Canon will push hard on the mirrorless system once they:
1. Came out strong with pro RF lenses
2. Said online that no more EF lenses will be released.

And if you would like to upgrade from 6D Mark II, 5D Mark IV at current prices will be a big upgrade until new mirrorless cameras will be released, with better and better EVFs.

At this point, if your main focus was and still is DSLR, then I really don't know how Canon or Nikon can take someone by surprise when comes to their future cameras. I started to play with lots of mirrorless cameras 2-3 years ago in order to adapt to EVFs so that I can make the transition once I got used to them and once I was sure that there are reasons to switch.

If you really want to stick with DSLRs, I'm sure that trading your current lenses for Pentax similar lenses is doable without paying extra. The Pentax 15-30mm f2.8 can be bought with the money from Canon 16-35mm f4L. Pentax DA 50mm f1.8 can be bought with the money from Canon 50mm f1.8 and it is a little better optically than Canon equivalent (Canon was weak on the 50mm focal lenght before they released the RF 50mm f1.2 which is a different story anyway).

What you will do if Pentax will stop making DSLRs in the next 5-7 years and start focusing on mirrorless? At this point mirrorless seems a safer bet, at least for the ones not interested in shooting with vintage lenses (I'm talking about compatibility). Don't get me wrong... depending on what you shoot, a 5D Mark IV, a D850 or a K1 Mark II can all be strong contenders in the next 6-8 years when comes to image quality. By then, all your current lenses will probably need replacement anyway. So, if I were you, I would start making some plans based on your investment, on your goals, on your financial situation, on alternatives to your system for long term.

All cameras take more than enough quality images for regular shooters. You won't loose a client due to image quality these days. As for lenses and this is a personal opinion, I replace them between 5 to 7 years due to:
1. Extensive use
2. Changing my style and/or my approach (these days I won't put a zoom lens on my camera for example). So, if I want to switch systems, I would do it once my lenses need to be replace.
07-22-2020, 02:54 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
2. Changing my style and/or my approach (these days I won't put a zoom lens on my camera for example). So, if I want to switch systems, I would do it once my lenses need to be replace.
Expedience, not serendipity, that gets the Norm Head 100% approval vote.

---------- Post added 07-22-20 at 06:00 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
I do have a K-x but it needs duct tape to hold the batteries in. The bottom plate is cracked. I don't mind being seen in public with a K200D or K-x, even with duct tape.
We gave out K-x to my daughter in law, so it's still going strong with our slightly decnetered Sigma 18-250 on it. That's a great camera. There are still images taken with it in my various collections.

But, you haven't contributed much to Pentax camera design lately, given that each design pays of the next one, you've been out of the loop for a while. You wouldn't believe what Live View does for manual focus.
07-22-2020, 03:19 PM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I really do think the MILC players are going to have an increasingly tough time going. They are coming up with improvements, but who really needs them?
People screems about IBIS for example and now, with Canon announcing up to 8 stops of image stabilization due to body and lens communication, we wonder who need this improvement? We also have available on mirrorless animal eye af that along with 100% af coverage (R5 and R6) will make BIF a hole new experience.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Who is really wanting 8K or 12K video?
A short example: stock videographers. Times are changing and video became really important for stock photographers also. For stock you need to upload 10 to 60 seconds videos and quality pays off. 4k at 120fps is already a dream come true for the ones who don't want to spend 30000$ on video cameras. 8k converted to high definition 4k and the ability to make crops and still maintain 4k resolution...yes please! Not to mention the option to extract 35mp images from video... Bare in mind that stock photography is open to everybody so the excuse of not being a pro doesn't stand when comes to microstock.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Who thinks that they need 80 megapixels because 40 just wasn't enough?
You have to think at the possibility that Ricoh will get the 65mp sensor from Sony and not the 45mp one from D850. I doubt that Ricoh will have 2 full frame models: a lower resolution one and a high resolution one (low investment budget, difficult times for photography, etc.). Given that landscape is one of their biggest interest, we will probably see higher resolution cameras in Pentax land also. At that point what you will do for example or your wife who shoots weddings? Will you both use 65mp cameras if Ricoh won't give you alternatives?

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I know there are answers to each of these questions, like high end movie makers and sports photographers (are there sports photographers in these days of COVID?) but they seem even smaller and more niche than those interested in OVF over EVF.
4000$ can be covered in just one month or less from stock photography and videography. This market is increasing year after year and you don't have to be a high end movie maker, you just have to think smart and be creative when comes to content uploaded. I make between 700$ and 1000$ each month with a portfolio that varies from 300 images to 1200 images, depending on agency. I started stock photography more seriously one year ago and I'm planning to start video also once I finish my training. 4k at 60 or 120fps will mean higher prices so an R6 will do the job until I will have enough experience to upgrade to another camera.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 07-22-2020 at 03:54 PM.
07-22-2020, 03:54 PM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
4000$ can be covered in just one month or less from stock photography and videography. This market is increasing year after year
Almost nobody can, Dan, here's an example:

Realistic Income from Selling Stock Photos - Is it worth it?

The value of images has actually plummeted because of agencies and prices being driven lower and lower. I pity people except for a handful, trying to pay rent or raise a family on stock photography!

Last edited by clackers; 07-22-2020 at 04:11 PM.
07-22-2020, 04:02 PM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Almost nobody can, Dan, here's an example:

Realistic Income from Selling Stock Photos - Is it worth it?

The value of images has plummeted because of agencies and prices being driven lower and lower. I pity people except for a handful, trying to pay rent or raise a family on stock photography!
Park photography was going to be my second income when I retired. The park used to pay $250 an image. Now they get so many submitted for free, they won't even take an images unless it's absolutely stellar, and you get a credit in the publication it's used in, not money.

It's hard to calculate what the percentage for the reduction in price was if the current price is zero.
07-22-2020, 04:05 PM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Almost nobody can, Dan, here's an example:

Realistic Income from Selling Stock Photos - Is it worth it?

The value of images has plummeted because of agencies and prices being driven lower and lower. I pity people except for a handful, trying to pay rent or raise a family on stock photography!
This is your refference? We need more like him to write about so that we can keep people away from stock in order to have less competition.

I quote from his article "EyeEm Total Earnings for 2019: $9.73
Adobe Stock Total Photo Earnings for 2019: $30.68
Shutterstock Total Photo Earnings for 2019: $147.20".

I have a portfolio that based on agencies policy varies from 300 to 1200 images. I started to uplod more seriously images in February 2019 when I changed my approach to stock. I make between 700$ and 1000$ each month so you want me to tell you that the guy you quoted is right? Only at Eyeem I made this month more than he did in 2019 on those 3 agencies.

And I haven't started to upload video...
07-22-2020, 04:10 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
True, but it's not quite the same. I would rather not be seen in public with a great big loupe thing on the back of my camera.
C'mon, Wasp, I'm sure you're not that soft!

I use one occasionally, when using Face (eye) Detection on sunny days.
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