[ShutterStuck82]

Hey there my Pentax pals! I have a question that I could REALLY use your help with. I work with a K3II and love it. It’s fast to work with, makes great pictures and I have a lot of glass for it. However, I would like to print (on rare occasion) large prints, say 30x40 or what have you.
Now.....I also shoot a first generation 645 film camera for fun and develop in a darkroom, so I have 645 glass as well. I love that camera for my black and white work.
My question is this.....there is a local camera store that has a 645D for sale for about $2400 plus tax. Is there ANY benefit to picking it up over working with my K3II? I know it’s a slower camera and quite old for a digital, but does it have any benefit that would be apparent to me for the price they are offering it at? It only has about 1200 actuations on it. I like to take landscape shots and especially lightning photography to name some subjects.
Any opinions as to whether it’s worth my time and money? Any help making this decision would be very much appreciated from this knowledgeable group!

[Fenwoodian]

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The 645D has a CCD seonsor in it. The K3ii has CMOS. Some, like me, believe that colors are richer and more vibrant on a CCD sensor.

The 645 with have shallower DOF, and for a bokeholic like me that's a big plus too.

For my type of photography, I'll take a camera with a CCD sensor and shallower DOF any day.
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[ShutterStuck82]

Thanks for replying Fenwoodian! Is the price a little steep or is $2400 a good deal for the 645D in 2020 with only 1200 actuations? I’ve never stepped up to medium format, so I don’t know what I’m missing and can’t imagine what the image quality difference would be like out of the two cameras due to the age between them.

[jatrax]

Price seems reasonable but not great. A quick search shows pricing from $1,800 to $2,700 but condition will vary.

Advantages I think Fenwoodian covered and if you already have 645 glass then that makes it more attractive.


Disadvantages are the size and weight compared to the K-3II and the much older technology. Personally for the price I would get a new K-1ii and lens and have a brand new, modern camera. But if you want to work with medium format then its not a bad deal. I would check other places such as ebay and B&H for alternatives and pricing before committing.

[KiloHotelphoto]

I just ordered a 645Z from Ricoh refurbished for $2999, scheduled to be delivered today. It’s a good amount of money but maybe $600 more for the Z may be worth it.

[jatrax]

One question to ask is are looking to move to more pixels or to medium format? 645D is 40MP and the K-1II is 36MP. If just more pixels look at the K-1II, if medium format then the 645D.

[ShutterStuck82]

I’m hearing some fantastic suggestions here! Thank you all for contributing your thoughts. Keep em’ coming as I don’t want to part with the money unless the benefit is going to be significantly improved image quality. And $3000 for a 645Z sounds like a heck of a deal KiloHotelphoto!

---------- Post added 07-22-20 at 07:54 AM ----------

I’m looking at the distinct look of Medium format, for sure. Pixel count is only part of the equation. I guess, in short, would the 645D give better printed results at large size prints than my current K3II? Or does the K3’s more modern tech make it more of an even match? I mean, the D is over 10 years old now. Does it still hold up and beyond the modern crop sensors in image quality?

[bkpix]

One thing to consider is how useful your old 645 glass will be on the 645D. I rented one a while back as I also have several manual focus 645 lenses. It's a beautiful camera and, as mentioned, the CCD sensor creates nice colors. But I found my manual focus lenses too fussy to use for my style of photography, which admittedly is more spontaneous than will allow much tripod use.

[SteveinSLC]

That does seem a little steep for a 645D, but the shutter count is very low. If you like the CCD look, seems like a good deal.

[Sykil]

I’m looking at the distinct look of Medium format, for sure. Pixel count is only part of the equation. I guess, in short, would the 645D give better printed results at large size prints than my current K3II? Or does the K3’s more modern tech make it more of an even match? I mean, the D is over 10 years old now. Does it still hold up and beyond the modern crop sensors in image quality?

I think so. An APS-C sensor is little more than a quarter of the size of a 645D sensor. There are certain advantages to such a large sensor that can be imitated, but not replicated. That said, even the newer APS-C sensors handle light much, much better, and that is one of the distinguishing factors between the 645D and 645Z in terms of bottom-line image quality: high ISO and dynamic range improvements that are appreciable to the eye. Another thing to consider: the K3II has much better continuous shooting speeds – 8.1 vs 3.1 and 1.1 frames per second for the K3II, 645Z and 645D respectively. I think the K3II still has the highest continuous shooting speed of any Pentax DSLR so far, but I could be wrong about that. Certainly not relevant to everyone's photography, but it's a large enough difference to be worth noting.


Here are some spec comparisons that may be helpful:
Pentax 645D vs Pentax K-3 II
Pentax 645Z vs Pentax K-3 II
Pentax 645D vs Pentax 645Z

And here are some studio scene comparisons from DPReview. They changed their test scene between the 645D and Z, but I tried to pick some contemporary cameras for each that could be helpful points of reference:
Old DPReview Studio Scene: 645D vs K-01 vs K5II vs K5IIs
New DPReview Studio Scene: 645Z vs K1II vs K3II vs KP


There are a lot of considerations. Beyond the physical capabilities of each camera model, each one processes images differently. For example, in the new studio scene, there's a mole or freckle near the crease of the upper right East Asian woman's left nostril (our right) that only the 645Z and K3II capture. I've been comparing that spot in particular with different cameras from various manufacturers; I think many newer cameras may throw it away as noise.

I'd also consider lenses. The 645 is a smaller and potentially more expensive ecosystem of lenses, and you have even fewer options in terms of adapting (if that matters to you).

If the bottom line is image quality, I think the 645Z wins hands down. I do really like colors of Pentax's old CCD sensors, but the cost of a 645D is hard to justify against the other image quality advantages of a comparably priced K-1 – to say nothing of the lens ecosystem or other features.

Edit: Bleh, the old studio scene doesn't want to preserve those camera selections for linking. You can just put in the cameras I mentioned or whichever you prefer.

[Apet-Sure]

I definitely DO like the colors from the CCD sensor on my K10D, but I can't set the ISO higher than 400 without seriously degrading IQ. Since you shoot landscapes you'll probably be using relatively small apertures, and higher ISO capability may be important. I don't know what a good highest ISO setting would be on the 645D, but I think it should be a consideration since ISO noise affects IQ. What are some of your common ISO settings on your K-3II? Could the 645D give you good IQ at those settings?

If some of the lenses you use on your K-3II cover FF, I would think the K-1 deserves serious consideration. The difference between 40mp on the 645D and 36mp on the K-1 doesn't seem to make a big difference when printing large prints. That may be too simplistic a comparison though.

[MJKoski]

For me, the primary trigger going "medium" format (GFX) was 4:3 aspect ratio with almost pixel-shift quality of K-1 with one exposure.

645D will also do both compared to K-3 when carefully focused and used on tripod.

[Wasp]

Do keep in mind that the 645D sensor is 44x33mm, i.e. smaller than a 645 negative. So there is a crop factor at work here. Results will be different from a 645 film body. Your wide angle won't be quite as wide and depth of field will be different. Pretty much the same deal as APS-C versus full frame (35mm negative size).

[RICHARD L.]

Could you try it for a week before committing to buying, to see if you like the handling and the results ? If it's in very good shape and has only 1200 actuations, it seems tempting. Could you negotiate the price, like saving the sales tax ? Put some effort into this deal and you may get a very good deal. (I have a K3, a K1 and a 645Z : all are top-notch).

Regards

P.S. Lenswise, I purchased 4 FA zooms (33-55 mm, 45-85 mm, 80-160 mm and 150-300 mm) used on eBay in Japan for 1250 $ and I couldn't be happier.

[EXman]

Check out my new thread in FS