[LensBeginner]

Facts? Which facts are those?

Add me to the 3 list with a healthy cup of 10 for reality..

I mean competing on "the pleasure of the experience" rather than improving measurable specifications.
Or improving the AF...

[clackers]

I fall as a 3 if I can get things I want to use I am happy, but I use m43 as well and enjoy the use of both types. I had a Sony A7, just did not enjoy using it even though the images from it were very good. Choice is good, I did read someplace that Canon were stopping development of EF lenses, but then the catalog of EF lenses is pretty massive so could see them stop bringing out new DSLR models in the next few years.

It's already rumoured the 5D series of pro Canon EF cameras have stopped development. If so, the only release in that series might be one or two that are already too far in the product pipeline to cancel.

If Canon can't afford to produce DSLRs and MILCs together, smaller and more troubled Nikon definitely can't.

And remember, a new R owner can use a legacy EF lens with an adapter, a current EF owner cannot use the current or future mirrorless lenses at all.

[richard0170]

Given where I stand in the Pentax system, the best development for me would be to see Canon or Nikon fail. Pentax could pick up some of the scraps; if a small percentage of those users convert it might double Pentax' USA market overnight.

Totally with you on this.

I would not wish that on all their users.

Whilst I would feel empathy for the Canikon crew. It would not stretch to sympathy. Canon abandoned FD users a long time ago. Nikon is slowly doing the same with the F mount. In fact I would suggest that Nikon's behaviour is even worse, as it keeps its existing customer base hanging on in the hope something new and great will appear, only to disappoint them. These companies have not behaved in a way to deserve their customer loyalty. I have Pentax, Nikon and Fuji digital systems on the go at the moment. Nikon has been the biggest disappointment in the camera department for a number of years, as they have not released a camera I would want to aspire to since the D700. The only reason I have a Nikon DSLR is to use some rather nice F mount glass on it. Not because it is a nice camera to use. Pentax, despite some disappointment from me, with its tardy new releases, still produces desirable cameras even if they are a little outdated in the specifications. Fuji are showing every body else how to do it at present, but I am reluctant to commit solely to a mirrorless system. I like the feel, heft and experience of a camera with a proper optical viewing system. Battery life and more importantly the fact that a DSLR does not require you to keep turning the thing back on to view subjects, trump many of the advantages of mirrorless cameras for me. Ideally I want both a DSLR and a mirrorless camera. I am fortunate that I do.

Anyway back to the OP question. I fall into cat 2 and 3.

[RobA_Oz]

13. because a niche based on mystique rather than facts is probably bound to be more expensive and less bang-per-bucks (see Apple, Leica etc.)

Apple makes mid and high range products, and their level of sales hardly puts them in the sort of niche that Leica occupies (who else makes a digital rangefinder?). Apple’s market segment In phones and computers is more like that of BMW or M-B in automotive, neither of whom is regarded as a “niche” player, although you could say that of McLaren or Bugatti. Samsung occupies much the same spaces as Apple (in performance as well as price, in spite of what its fans would have you believe), but also makes some cheaper phones. They all could be said to have an element of “mystique” but it’s usually associated with the concept of “prestige”, and in those cases it isn’t based on either – the mystique is added by marketers and buyers, just as it is for Canon, Nikon and Sony.

[monochrome]

I mean competing on "the pleasure of the experience" rather than improving measurable specifications.
Or improving the AF...

What if they do both? Suppose the measurable specifications - technical attributes - like tracking AF are improved to the level of “competitive” and modern conveniences such as touch screen, eye-AF, throughput are also.

The User Experience meme, built around the OVF, is then one of the affinity brand identifiers, which is what marketing is all about. We’ve been begging for marketing for fifteen years. Affinity marketing and competitive measurable specifications are not mutually exclusive,

EVF is not the only way.

[Kunzite]

Suppose the measurable specifications - technical attributes - like tracking AF are improved to the level of “competitive” and modern conveniences such as touch screen, eye-AF, throughput are also.

The User Experience meme, built around the OVF,’ are then affinity brand identifiers, which is what marketing is all about. We’ve been begging for marketing for fifteen years. Affinity marketing and competitive measurable specifications are not mutually exclusive,

EVF is not the only way.

This ^^^ is Pentax' marketing.

Specs... they can be easily outcompeted, even as Pentax improves. Someone would have excellent AF coverage - more than can be done with a SLR, and even in borders where no sane photographer would ever put his subject. Someone would have great FPS, with AF and metering locked - more than could be done with a moving mirror. Someone would have a high number of pixels in the EVF, and focus peaking, and Tetris. Someone would make a camera dedicated to video.
Let's imagine the K-new has 2xMP, 10fps and a new AF system with 151 AF points. For every number I've mentioned, someone has more of it. Yet it would be a fantastic camera, right?

Pentax can only strive to reach a balance. I have high expectations out of their new SLR line, but that won't be enough to "win" on spec-based marketing terms.

[lesmore49]

Number 13 for me...and my fill in your own...is who knows and we'll see.

[LensBeginner]

What if they do both? Suppose the measurable specifications - technical attributes - like tracking AF are improved to the level of “competitive” and modern conveniences such as touch screen, eye-AF, throughput are also.

The User Experience meme, built around the OVF, is then one of the affinity brand identifiers, which is what marketing is all about. We’ve been begging for marketing for fifteen years. Affinity marketing and competitive measurable specifications are not mutually exclusive,

EVF is not the only way.

I _sincerely hope_ they do both.

@RobA_Oz ok, Meyer-Görlitz/Lomography etc. then?

[totsmuyco]

14.
I wanted to choose 13 but it's an unlucky number. Besides, I'm simply "dazed and confused". So I'd make that as the 14th choice.

[Kunzite]

Oh, I forgot about the OP's question... nobody chose #8? OK, I'll do it then.

[Paul the Sunman]

Oh, I forgot about the OP's question... nobody chose #8? OK, I'll do it then.

There were a couple of others who chose 8; the honest ones. I think there are a lot more "number 8s" on PF than will admit to it.

[monochrome]

There were a couple of others who chose 8; the honest ones. I think there are a lot more "number 8s" on PF than will admit to it.

I’ll probably be grumpy no matter what happens*, but that will be in response to whatever posts are made after K-new is revealed.


* hmmm.

[MikeMcE]

Just cause I'm grumpy, doesn't mean much to me.........#3 will still be

[DeadJohn]

I would not wish that on all their users.

I don't "wish that" on camera users or the employees of a camera company. The reality, though, is that the camera market has shrunk a lot due to smartphones. Samsung left. Olympus is leaving. More brands will depart, and I'd prefer that Pentax lasts because that's the main system I use.

[garywakeling]

I don't "wish that" on camera users or the employees of a camera company. The reality, though, is that the camera market has shrunk a lot due to smartphones. Samsung left. Olympus is leaving. More brands will depart, and I'd prefer that Pentax lasts because that's the main system I use.

Keeping them going as a company means buying the products they produce, so that's what I'm doing, 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.4 in hand, will buy the 21mm when it appears and the K-new as well, no wonder I tended to a grumpy 3, all this support is costing me a fortune