Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-03-2020, 02:12 PM   #31
Pentaxian
Wasp's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Pretoria
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,219
The Ford would be more economical, usable and reliable than the Ferrari...

08-03-2020, 04:27 PM   #32
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
RobA_Oz's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,247
QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
The Ford would be more economical, usable and reliable than the Ferrari...
You’re obviously not talking about a GT40.

Anyway, isn’t the test really the one you find yourself using most, as with cameras? Someone had to drag this back on topic.
08-03-2020, 05:58 PM   #33
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5th floor
Posts: 1,479
QuoteOriginally posted by ggascay Quote
What if Pentax gives us a K-3 APS-C style camera that can take K-1 images?

What if the new Full Frame Optical ViewFinder is only half the equation that we must first fully understand, to a much larger, groundbreaking announcement?
What if all this specific talk about a Full Frame Optical ViewFinder, specifically in an APS-C camera, is to prepare us for a new “industry first” feature, never before seen in APS-C cameras?
What if they were able to “reverse” the K1 crop mode, to allow the APS-C sensor to have a Full Frame mode that takes a Full Frame picture? Is this why all the fanfare about why they really want us to know how big and how good the optical viewfinder is?
I had thought about this for a while and how it could be done, and have come up with part of the solution. By using the sensor shift functionality (improved system) the sensor can be moved within the image circle to capture more of the image than APS-C normally would. Similar to a pixel shift image, but by combining the first standard image with increased edge extensions to expand the entire image into a much larger field of view...
You could not frame such an image in an EVF, only in optical, so it is tech that could only be used in a DSLR.
What if Pentax gives us an APS-C K3 style camera that can take K1 images?
If I understand you correctly - Leica SL2 does this, or something similar.

Leica SL2 Firmware v2.0 with 187MP Multi-Shot | Red Dot Forum
08-04-2020, 02:48 AM   #34
Pentaxian
Wasp's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Pretoria
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,219
QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
If I understand you correctly - Leica SL2 does this, or something similar.

Leica SL2 Firmware v2.0 with 187MP Multi-Shot | Red Dot Forum
Well spotted. I believe that this is what the OP has in mind. The article does say that only full frame lenses will work. In principle, a Pentax DSLR should be able to it as well. This is just pixel shifting on a bigger scale. There is not enough movement in the SR mechanism to cover the entire full frame but images will be bigger and better. That is a Good ThingTM. No movement allowed of course, but landscapes don't move around much. So how about it, Ricoh software/firmware guys? When will this firmware enhancement be released?

08-04-2020, 11:06 AM   #35
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
MossyRocks's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Minnesota
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,652
QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
This is just pixel shifting on a bigger scale. There is not enough movement in the SR mechanism to cover the entire full frame but images will be bigger and better. That is a Good ThingTM. No movement allowed of course, but landscapes don't move around much.
A few months after I got my K-3 I did that sort of thing manually with the image composition editor function and would shoot 5 to 9 shots and combine in Photoshop and in some cases I could see it being worthwhile but a lot of the time the marginal expanded field of view just wasn't worth the effort. I went and looked things up and the max movement on the K-3 sensor appears to be 3mm stop to stop in either the horizontal or vertical direction (+/-1.5mm from center) so that would give about 15% to 20% more in each direction so no where near the 50% more needed for full frame. If it were automated I could see myself possibly using it but seemed like a feature that never did it for me and I haven't really used it since. There is one shot I want to use it on but that is one where I need about 5% more than I can get with my zoom that go down to 70mm so would probably use the 77 ltd instead and composition editor for that shot.

I was still at the stage of playing with features and really big into computational photography at the time so thought it might be worthwhile exploring. As such I played, explored, experimented and then got bored because it just didn't give a big improvement. Same thing with playing with super resolution images. They both have their place but it is far rarer than you think, especially stitching composition editor images. In both cases I find that going to a different lens size and doing a properly stitched panorama to be a better solution. Like using my 50mm instead of the wide or ultra wide, or using the 35 instead of the 28 + image composition.
08-05-2020, 12:15 AM - 3 Likes   #36
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Cynog Ap Brychan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucester
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,171
QuoteOriginally posted by MossyRocks Quote
A few months after I got my K-3 I did that sort of thing manually with the image composition editor function and would shoot 5 to 9 shots and combine in Photoshop and in some cases I could see it being worthwhile but a lot of the time the marginal expanded field of view just wasn't worth the effort. I went and looked things up and the max movement on the K-3 sensor appears to be 3mm stop to stop in either the horizontal or vertical direction (+/-1.5mm from center) so that would give about 15% to 20% more in each direction so no where near the 50% more needed for full frame. If it were automated I could see myself possibly using it but seemed like a feature that never did it for me and I haven't really used it since. There is one shot I want to use it on but that is one where I need about 5% more than I can get with my zoom that go down to 70mm so would probably use the 77 ltd instead and composition editor for that shot.

I was still at the stage of playing with features and really big into computational photography at the time so thought it might be worthwhile exploring. As such I played, explored, experimented and then got bored because it just didn't give a big improvement. Same thing with playing with super resolution images. They both have their place but it is far rarer than you think, especially stitching composition editor images. In both cases I find that going to a different lens size and doing a properly stitched panorama to be a better solution. Like using my 50mm instead of the wide or ultra wide, or using the 35 instead of the 28 + image composition.
Only yesterday I used this technique to take a photo of a castle when I couldn't physically get far enough back to get the whole edifice in frame. The 16-85 mm lens I was using on my K-3 II wasn't wide enough. As it was raining quite heavily, I didn't want to change lenses, and in any case I don't think my 8-16mm Sigma is weather sealed. Three quick shots, which I later stitched together in Photoshop, and the job was done.
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3 II  Photo 
08-05-2020, 03:24 AM - 1 Like   #37
Pentaxian
Lord Lucan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: South Wales
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,008
QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
If I understand you correctly - Leica SL2 does this, or something similar.

Leica SL2 Firmware v2.0 with 187MP Multi-Shot | Red Dot Forum
That looks like Pixel Shift to me. To move the APS-C around enough to cover a FF area you would need a larger body to accommodate it, and if you have that you might as well put a FF sensor into it. If you want FF photos, get a FF camera.

SLR/DSLR viewfinder coverage and brightness have nothing to do with the sensor size. The view does not involve the sensor. The view depends on the mirror, pentaprism and eypiece, and the view you get may be reduced in area or otherwise comprimised in the interest of keeping camera size/weight/cost down. For example you could engineer a 6x7 mirror and pentaprism on a 4/3 sensor camera with eyepiece optics to show the 100% field of view that the sensor will actually record; but it would make for a very large and heavy 4/3 camera and defeat the advantages of the small sensor. Oh wait - I forgot about the Olympus_OM-D_E-M1X !
08-05-2020, 08:52 AM   #38
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
MossyRocks's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Minnesota
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,652
QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
Only yesterday I used this technique to take a photo of a castle when I couldn't physically get far enough back to get the whole edifice in frame. The 16-85 mm lens I was using on my K-3 II wasn't wide enough. As it was raining quite heavily, I didn't want to change lenses, and in any case I don't think my 8-16mm Sigma is weather sealed. Three quick shots, which I later stitched together in Photoshop, and the job was done.
Nice shot there and good used of the feature. However I think yours is the example that proves the point I was trying to make. It isn't something that really warrants a special feature as it is something that is rarely used and if one knows about composition editor they can use it on the rare occasion when it is needed.

08-05-2020, 11:48 AM   #39
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2017
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 529
QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
If I understand you correctly - Leica SL2 does this, or something similar.

Leica SL2 Firmware v2.0 with 187MP Multi-Shot | Red Dot Forum
That mentions moving the sensor microns...not millimeters. So sounds more like pixelshift.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
adjustment, aps-c, camera, composition, dslr, field, frame, image, images, k1, k3 aps-c, pentax news, pentax rumors, photography, pixel shift, sensor, shift, shot, shots, shutter, view, viewfinder
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale - Sold: Package with SMC Pentax-DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 ED AL [IF] DC WR FarmerJim Sold Items 2 10-13-2018 12:16 PM
If you can't afford the 24-70 and 70-200 for the K1 what would you get? John Hales Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 73 07-05-2018 09:10 PM
You get a k1000, you get a k1000! disconnekt Pentax Film SLR Discussion 26 04-15-2018 01:17 PM
(k1 v k3) thoughts if you had to pick one. kurrawinya Pentax DSLR Discussion 68 05-20-2017 07:27 AM
Will you leave APS-C for the K1? SteveM Pentax Full Frame 95 02-21-2016 07:00 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:43 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top