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08-15-2020, 08:17 PM   #31
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The K-5 IIs was a significant upgrade over the still very good K-5. I used both extensively. The KP is an even greater upgrade over the K-5 IIs, even though the former is still very worthy. The original K-5 is a significant upgrade over the K-r, better VF, far better controls, far better build, far better features, far better design, and far better overall image quality. Yet it trails quite a bit behind several subsequent models that trail behind the KP in advancement.

Many who have both the KP and the K-1 II use them alternately with very satisfying results. Actually, the KP was designed with one goal being to have a compact alternate available to the K-1 with build and imaging capability close enough for people wanting to have the advantages of both FF and APS-C to be thus pleased with owning both. The KP has proven a success in attaining this goal. We see at least two such people right here in this thread! Very fine wide angle options are available for both APS-C and FF use.

As to the DFA 28-105, everyone who owns one swears by its fine performance. If one does not need the f/2.8 aperture, then why spend more and carry more weight with a lens having less zoom range? But being used to the DA* 16-50mm's f/2.8 advantages, which is still a very capable quality lens, such a far slower aperture lens might too often be less satisfying. When one needs that f/2.8 aperture, there is no substitute.

08-16-2020, 04:13 PM - 1 Like   #32
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I think after all of this discussion I'm going to hold off until mid october (Baby due in November and I really want a new body before then for portraiture) and see if the new APS-C body is out yet... fingers crossed. If not, I'll probably go for the KP, and start building some FF capable lenses in case I decide to go FF later in life.
08-16-2020, 08:13 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dtabbler Quote
I think after all of this discussion I'm going to hold off until mid october (Baby due in November and I really want a new body before then for portraiture) and see if the new APS-C body is out yet... fingers crossed. If not, I'll probably go for the KP, and start building some FF capable lenses in case I decide to go FF later in life.
Sounds like a good decision to me.

The KP is compact for what it is, but it is really a beast of a camera- just a compact beast. As soon as you get your hands on one, you will feel its higher quality. Adding to its unique character, is its modular aspect. Changing the grips to provide a different feel according to preference, and for the use of different lenses, is a very innovative and sometimes useful feature. I tend to use the smallest grip with one of the very compact Limited lenses, which is a delightful combo, and switch to the largest supplied grip with larger lenses.

Then one can change the character of the camera even more by adding the optional battery grip. Then it is really a beast, yet still the combined weight is just about the same as a K-3 II alone, but can deliver even greater battery life. All of the Pentax models starting with the K-5 IIs have discontinued the use of the common AA filter, which tends to smear fine detail. That alone will mean better fine detail compared to your K-r. The later models feature a switchable filter simulator if moire should arise as a problem in subject matter. If you like the convenience of often shooting high-quality JPEG images, the KP's in-camera processing is exceptional. Just be sure to setup "Fine Sharpening" in the Custom Image menus, especially in the most often-used Bright" category. This will improve fine detail even more. This will most likely be true of the new model as well.

Even if I decide to get the forthcoming new APS-C model, which promises to be outstanding but a totally different animal than the KP, my KP is not going anywhere. Image quality is that good, and its versatility is that useful and accommodating. The new one will simply replace my K-5 IIs as my larger model with a couple more dedicated on-body controls when this sort of setup is more convenient.

The only reason for me even to consider getting a FF body at some future date, is the fact I already own some exceptionally fine FF lenses, some from my film-shooting days. I really would like to use them again in their original FOV. Other than that, the quality I am getting now is certainly very fine, even though often dealing with low-light conditions! I will wait and see when the new FF model finally comes along. Definitely a luxury acquisition for me rather than a need, and then for times not involving biking nor much trekking, so needing to keep weight and bulk down would not be an issue.

Last edited by mikesbike; 08-16-2020 at 08:32 PM.
08-17-2020, 12:54 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dtabbler Quote
I think after all of this discussion I'm going to hold off until mid october (Baby due in November and I really want a new body before then for portraiture) and see if the new APS-C body is out yet... fingers crossed. If not, I'll probably go for the KP, and start building some FF capable lenses in case I decide to go FF later in life.
All good reasons, and in addition, when the new one comes out, the prices on the older models may drop - plus (if the baby will hold off on emergence), you may be able to get "black friday" deals.

08-21-2020, 08:23 PM   #35
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In thinking about the DA lenses (designed for crop cameras) vs. all non-DA lenses (designed for full-frame/35mm cameras), I got to wondering: Does the stated focal length on a DA lens relate to the APS-C cameras only, and the stated focal length on all other lenses relate to full-frame cameras only? For example, I have the DA 12-24mm and the DA 20-40mm lenses; are these the effective focal lengths for my K10D camera, but when put on a K-1 camera they would effectively be 8-16mm and 13-30mm focal lengths, respectively, with the 1.5x factor from FF to APS-C (and 0.67x from APS-C to FF)? Or are the 12-24mm and 20-40mm numbers meant for FF cameras (even though they are not designed for FF cameras), meaning that on my APS-C camera they are effectively 18-36mm and 30-60mm, respectively?
08-21-2020, 08:30 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by cometguy Quote
In thinking about the DA lenses (designed for crop cameras) vs. all non-DA lenses (designed for full-frame/35mm cameras), I got to wondering: Does the stated focal length on a DA lens relate to the APS-C cameras only, and the stated focal length on all other lenses relate to full-frame cameras only? For example, I have the DA 12-24mm and the DA 20-40mm lenses; are these the effective focal lengths for my K10D camera, but when put on a K-1 camera they would effectively be 8-16mm and 13-30mm focal lengths, respectively, with the 1.5x factor from FF to APS-C (and 0.67x from APS-C to FF)? Or are the 12-24mm and 20-40mm numbers meant for FF cameras (even though they are not designed for FF cameras), meaning that on my APS-C camera they are effectively 18-36mm and 30-60mm, respectively?
Hi

Quick answer the mm of the lens has nothing to do with what the format of the camera is.
The FOV is the only change hence 'crop'

Dave
08-21-2020, 09:10 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by cometguy Quote
In thinking about the DA lenses (designed for crop cameras) vs. all non-DA lenses (designed for full-frame/35mm cameras), I got to wondering: Does the stated focal length on a DA lens relate to the APS-C cameras only, and the stated focal length on all other lenses relate to full-frame cameras only? For example, I have the DA 12-24mm and the DA 20-40mm lenses; are these the effective focal lengths for my K10D camera, but when put on a K-1 camera they would effectively be 8-16mm and 13-30mm focal lengths, respectively, with the 1.5x factor from FF to APS-C (and 0.67x from APS-C to FF)? Or are the 12-24mm and 20-40mm numbers meant for FF cameras (even though they are not designed for FF cameras), meaning that on my APS-C camera they are effectively 18-36mm and 30-60mm, respectively?
Focal length is focal length.

When I use the {"FF"} FA 28-105 lens on my K-30 in widest position, I get the same view that I would get with a DA 28 if there were such thing.

Likewise, if I could set my Sigma 10-20mm {an "APS-C' lens, exactly the same as a DA lens} at exactly 17mm while using it on my KP, I would get exactly the same view as I would get while using my "AdaptAll" {"FF"} 17mm lens on the camera.
08-22-2020, 05:31 AM   #38
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I agree with @DBS and @REH321, but, and in other words, the focal length is stated as though you were using a 35mm film camera. They really should be using that phrase to describe the difference between APS-C lenses and full-frame lenses. That difference is merely a matter of viewing angle; because the size of the APS-C sensor is smaller, it loses data at the sides and top compared to a FF lens focused at the same distance with the same focal length. Hence DBS' reference to "FOV" (field of view).

08-23-2020, 11:54 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by cometguy Quote
In thinking about the DA lenses (designed for crop cameras) vs. all non-DA lenses (designed for full-frame/35mm cameras), I got to wondering: Does the stated focal length on a DA lens relate to the APS-C cameras only, and the stated focal length on all other lenses relate to full-frame cameras only? For example, I have the DA 12-24mm and the DA 20-40mm lenses; are these the effective focal lengths for my K10D camera, but when put on a K-1 camera they would effectively be 8-16mm and 13-30mm focal lengths, respectively, with the 1.5x factor from FF to APS-C (and 0.67x from APS-C to FF)? Or are the 12-24mm and 20-40mm numbers meant for FF cameras (even though they are not designed for FF cameras), meaning that on my APS-C camera they are effectively 18-36mm and 30-60mm, respectively?
Here's my best analogy:

Stand in a room with a wide picture window. Then imagine someone partially closing curtains that cover the sides and the top and bottom a bit. That's what happens with a full frame lens on a cropped camera. Now imagine that instead of a window it was a projector screen. Imaging we set a projecter but the lens isn't able to correctly cover the entire screen, the corners are darker and maybe even completely black. That's a crop lens on a full frame sensor.

Note that the apparent size of the items in the images you saw with your eye standing in the room weren't affected, just how much each lens was able to show you was changed by the angle of view it could present.

Slightly more complicated is the fact that some crop cameras have higher density pixels which means for those crop cameras they can seen like they have zoomed in on the subject a bit...
08-27-2020, 04:49 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by cometguy Quote
In thinking about the DA lenses (designed for crop cameras) vs. all non-DA lenses (designed for full-frame/35mm cameras), I got to wondering: Does the stated focal length on a DA lens relate to the APS-C cameras only, and the stated focal length on all other lenses relate to full-frame cameras only? For example, I have the DA 12-24mm and the DA 20-40mm lenses; are these the effective focal lengths for my K10D camera, but when put on a K-1 camera they would effectively be 8-16mm and 13-30mm focal lengths, respectively, with the 1.5x factor from FF to APS-C (and 0.67x from APS-C to FF)? Or are the 12-24mm and 20-40mm numbers meant for FF cameras (even though they are not designed for FF cameras), meaning that on my APS-C camera they are effectively 18-36mm and 30-60mm, respectively?
As others have said, if using a 50mm lens designed for a FF body for example, on APS-C bodies, the FL is the same, but the APS-C body would not be using the full width of the lens's glass elements, the outer portion would be eliminated in your shot. So this means it is also less wide angle than it would be on a FF body where you would include the outer portion of the glass and more of the scene would be in your picture. So with the APS-C body you conversely get a narrower angle of view, resulting in an image having more telephoto effect and less wide angle effect. At least a 50mm lens made for FF use is fully usable on either, just with the difference in angle of view but without any adverse consequences.

But if using a 50mm lens (same FL) designed for APS-C use, its glass elements will be cut less wide which is appropriate for the smaller sensor so the lens can be lighter in weight than the FF 50mm lens, yet since its glass elements are cut to a narrower width it cannot be used on a FF camera body. The FF sensor format would be wider than the lens's glass coverage so you'd get vignetting- darkening around the outer area of the shot.

Last edited by mikesbike; 08-27-2020 at 04:58 PM.
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