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03-07-2007, 06:46 PM   #31
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I would just like to see them get the K10D performing a bit better. My wife's K100D works flawlessly, but I have occational hiccups like totally black or totally white shots that followed a great exposure of the exact same scene, camera settings, lighting, etc.
A bit better Jpg performance as far as image quality would be nice as well.

cheers

randy

03-07-2007, 07:18 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dana G Quote
Or, you can turn up the sharpness level in the menu.
"Pentax may well have been aiming for a smooth film-like appearance but I at least feel that the inability to tweak this out by increasing sharpness is a mistake." - Phil Askey (Excerpt from DPR K10D Review Conclusion )
03-07-2007, 07:22 PM   #33
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But I, trooly-rooly, honest to god, cross-my-heart-and-hope-to-die, would dearly love to have a wholely manual, totally minimalised, inexpensive, robust, high quality, photo-imaging device that doesn't require a 'tweenager (the quickest learning creatures on the planet) to set it up in order to take a photograph of my old F100 ex-ambulance!!!
You guys can have all your A.I. whistles and bells, but I'm pretty well content with my well programmed (if somewhat antiquated) intracranial information processing device.
SR and a modicum of accurate focussing assistance would be useful, however.
03-07-2007, 07:24 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by chrisman Quote
The major criticism is usually that the JPG's are a little soft which could be fixed with a firmware release (this does not apply to RAW images).
"To get that absolute crisp appearance you'll need to shoot RAW, and use Adobe Camera RAW or another third party converter (as the supplied converter produces similar results to the camera)." Phil Askey - DPR K10D Review Conclusion.

03-07-2007, 07:33 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
while I don't think that K10D needs to be updated, I agree with RiceHigh regarding K100D/K110D. New SDM lenses automatically makes those bodies obsolete. Pentax should bring out entry level body with SDM support as soon as possible.
I have a very similar view as yours, except that I think the K10D shall have an enhanced version whereas the K100 should be replaced, that's why I suggested there should be a "K10Dn" and a "K200D" in the OT.

I just list out some of the problems of the existing K100D and K10D below:

K100D: No SDM support, No DR function, Rechargeable Battery Problem, Auto ISO Bug, 6M Pixel only, Not Compact as Nikon and Canon's entry level DSLRs

K10D: Blurry Jpeg, Ineffective DR, Outdated and Inaccurate Metering System, Bulky and Heavy, AF Problems, Noisy Pics from ISO 400.
03-07-2007, 09:11 PM   #36
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K100D: No SDM support,... not a real problem to me.. at least not for quite some time..

Rechargeable Battery Problem, .. no problem to me i dont need or want proprietary lithiums..

Auto ISO Bug,.. yep shame about that one but it shouldnt need a new camera to fix it..

6M Pixel only,.. nope.. an ISO plus point to me.. i dont want ten..

Not Compact as Nikon and Canon's entry level DSLRs.. all meaningless when u stick some "larger" lenses on the thing..

but i dont supose i am the type of buyer they will be thinking of..

trog
03-07-2007, 09:32 PM   #37
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Trog, it's not about what you need We're here talking about what market possibly would want to get from Pentax and what Pentax should do to be succesful.

Currently I'm happy with what I have, but it doesn't mean Pentax should stop their camera development and not release any new products until I decide that I need something new

Camera and lens lineup should be matched. If you sell SDM lenses it is nonsence to sell cameras, which doesn't support SDM. Afterall, I don't think that adding SDM support requires a lot of R&D, I bet it should be rather very simply upgrade to current K100D/K110D: add electrical contacts and update firmware to incorporate SDM support.

Current entry level DSLR market is like consumer electronics market: you should update your products very often. In other case ordinary Joe won't buy that "old camera released last year" when he can get just a few weeks ago released camera for the same price.
03-07-2007, 11:11 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
I think the K10D shall have an enhanced version - a "K10Dn"
Not acceptable.

You don't take $1000 from me for a camera, and solve its obvious problems in an updated version a few months later to avoid a recall, or firmware update.

That blows loyalty. I wouldn't be the only one to sell my K10D, and go another brand. Therefore, no future lens, body, or accessory purchases. I'd suffer any shortcomings of another brand just to not buy Pentax again if thats the reaction to the issues of already purchased cameras.

They just won't do that to K10D owners.

Larry

03-07-2007, 11:24 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dana G Quote
Or, you can turn up the sharpness level in the menu.

When will this advice ever die?

Upping the sharpness does not correct the K10D soft jpeg issue. Period. It adds undershoot/texture sharpening that doesn't work well.

A choice of edge/USM sharpening instead of the textural sharpening (and vica versa) needs to be put in the menu by firmware update along with whatever necessary algorithms and adjustments to the tweaking room Pentax already said they left in the ADC's for this to happen. The same goes for a user defeatable NR option for normal exposure times (not just long exposure hot pixel subtraction).

And VPN fixed. This should be announced at PMA as forthcoming, not just an updated version that offers this.

Larry
03-07-2007, 11:34 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Phil Askey (Excerpt from DPR K10D Review Conclusion )
Ha! Quoting Phil? Most Pentax users here and dpreview disagreed with Phil's biased review. What would it achieve by quoting him?

Phil's biggest problem is that he reviewed the image by analysing the pixels (pixel peeping), and not the whole image. Not once did he look at the big picture or an actual print (yes, how a photo should be appreciated). And his K10D samples did not even include a single portrait.
03-07-2007, 11:41 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
I just list out some of the problems of the existing K100D and K10D below:
Your dislike of K10D is well known. But I disgree with all your points, which border on the absurd.

QuoteQuote:
K10D: Blurry Jpeg,
Blurry jpeg? What blurry jpeg? (And don't give me that Phil's quote).

QuoteQuote:
Ineffective DR,
It's not as effective as Olympus' one; but not any worse than Canon's.

QuoteQuote:
Outdated and Inaccurate Metering System,
I have no idea what you are talking about. It works very well for me.

QuoteQuote:
Bulky and Heavy,
Geez, you want quality and weather seal, and you want feather light weight? It is not any bulkier or heavier than Nikon's or Canon's counterpart.

QuoteQuote:
AF Problems,
With firmware v1.1 debug mode, you can iron out most AF problems.

QuoteQuote:
Noisy Pics from ISO 400.
In one review, K10D scores the lowest in terms of noise when compared with D80 and A100 up to ISO 1600.
03-07-2007, 11:43 PM   #42
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yes edvinas.. i dont they dont make cameras to suit me.. he he he

i was just kinda disagreeing with RHs reasons for wanting a newer model 100d.. but the masses never have wanted what they should want have they.. he he

i assume by being succesful u mean selling to the masses..

trog
03-08-2007, 01:51 AM   #43
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Regarding soft JPEGs...

Depends if you print your pictures or not, and your preferences... personally I find when I print pictures, esp larger prints that textural sharpened images with softer edges print much nicer than less texture sharpness with over-sharpened edges (like some other brands)...

Its a matter of preference Pentax has always done things this way, and if RH et all would switch the K100d into natural mode they would discover the same "soft" edges... It is a feature that to me differentiates Pentax from the pack (like Canons Plastic look) and many like it, so why should they change because Phil doesn't... And RH I (and many people here) couldn't care less what Phil thinks, if I would be talking on his forum, not here..

As for the K10d being too large? you have got to be joking? show me a weather-sealed DSLR smaller than the K10d... please.. I would love to see it..

Both my meter and AF system work fine... Must be lucky I guess ;-)

As has been said the Noise levels are better than the A100 and D80.. The Canon D400 does have less noise at higher ISOs and it also has much less detail.. I would prefer slightly more noise and retained detail, but hey I'm just crazy I guess...

Last edited by joele; 03-08-2007 at 01:59 AM.
03-08-2007, 02:16 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Ha! Quoting Phil? Most Pentax users here and dpreview disagreed with Phil's biased review. What would it achieve by quoting him?

Phil's biggest problem is that he reviewed the image by analysing the pixels (pixel peeping), and not the whole image. Not once did he look at the big picture or an actual print (yes, how a photo should be appreciated). And his K10D samples did not even include a single portrait.
"Most Pentax users"? Maybe, for those current K10D owners. "Biased", I don't know. But from the evidence Phil presents, I must say I am agreed with his findings and conclusion.

"Pixel Peeping"? Yes. But K10D loses in the game of pixel peeping, see?

I did an experiment (which I think is a very fair one) here sometimes ago, you can try it also and see what you can find:-

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/2423-lets-play-interesting-game.html

Finally, I am not in defense of Phil Askey, but I think he does and did post so many reallife sample photos and I do think he is a good photographer too (besides being a "professional" measurbator, who earns a living from his big website).
03-08-2007, 02:27 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
Its a matter of preference Pentax has always done things this way, and if RH et all would switch the K100d into natural mode they would discover the same "soft" edges...
Nope. I *always* use natural mode for my Pentax DSLRs, both DS and the K100D. I have never discovered any soft jpegs with my K100D but only with my DS (and *ist D too). Here is a head-to-head comparison, with sample pics:-

RiceHigh's Pentax K100D Full Review

QuoteQuote:
It is a feature that to me differentiates Pentax from the pack (like Canons Plastic look) and many like it, so why should they change because Phil doesn't... And RH I (and many people here) couldn't care less what Phil thinks, if I would be talking on his forum, not here..
Yes, one of the things what I don't like Canon DSLRs most is the "plastic skin" symptom. But actually I would say the K10D is going along this path, unfortunately. Indeed, the DS is just better than the K100D for better skin texture reproduction (but K100D has better colors and more accurate AWB).

QuoteQuote:
As for the K10d being too large? you have got to be joking? show me a weather-sealed DSLR smaller than the K10d... please.. I would love to see it..
So, I wish to se a non-sealed Pentax DSLR which can be made smaller!

QuoteQuote:
Both my meter and AF system work fine... Must be lucky I guess ;-)
Well, I must be the most unlucky Pentax user on Earth, then! ;-D
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