[aslyfox]

for me for BIF and other " moving targets "

the difference in AF points 27 vs. 11

and this

Hi: 8.3 fps up to approx. 60 frames (JPG), up to approx. 23 frames (RAW), M: 4.5 fps up to approx 100 frames (JPG), 32 frames (RAW), Lo: 3 fps uup to approx. 200 frames (JPG), up to appox. 52 frames (RAW)

vs

Hi: 6 fps up to 40 frames (JPG), 10 frames (RAW), Lo: 3 fps up to 100 frames (JPEG), 16 frames (RAW)

Pentax K-3 II vs. Pentax KP vs. Pentax K-70 - Pentax Camera Comparison - PentaxForums.com

would be of interest

however, the choice is not mine and therefore I do not know what is the best choice

---

Last edited by aslyfox; 08-28-2020 at 03:47 AM.

Well I would give him my KP and get another for myself.


Hang up and DRIVE!

Good advice on both points. Reminds me of a bit of lawyerly advice: what's the first thing you should do if you're involved in an automobile collision? Answer: "Hang up the 'phone."

[SSGGeezer]

The PLM would be usable on the current KS-2 since it is electronically controlled and has nothing to do with the solenoid from everything I have read here. Buy him the PLM and let him keep saving!

[aslyfox]

He actually is talking about getting an A series telephoto to try out the catch in focus feature!

take a look around and see if you might be able to find one of these - Vivitar Series 1 70-210mm ( ver. 3 ) PKA

Description:
This is the vaunted version three of Vivitar's Series One 70-210mm lenses. Can be found in PK and PKA mounts (and M42 and other mounts). Made by komine (28xxxxx serials).
This lens offers a relatively strong macro capability to 1:2.5 ratio at 210mm. There is an internal cam mechanism that automatically shifts you to 100mm focal length from 70mm when close focussing past 1.6m. Conversely, if focussed closer than 1.6m the zoom is stopped at 100mm. At M-R on the distance scale you are at the CFD and max macro ratio is achieved at 210mm, no change in focus. See scan of original user manual here

Focal range: 70-210mm
Aperture: f2.8-4 to f22 (+A position with PKA)
Iris: 9 blades
Focus/zoom sleeve.
Focus throw: ~ 160 deg to 1.6m, ~300 deg to cfd 0.8m
Filter: 62mm.
Weight: 860g/30oz
Optics: 14 elements in 10 groups.
Macro - 1:2.5 at 210mm.
CFD: 1.6m/5.1' at 70mm; 0.8m/2.7' at 100-210mm
CWD: ~ 30cm/2'.

Pic: L to R VS1 (kiron); VS1 (Tokina); VS1 (komine); Kiron zoomlock.

Mark Roberts' vivitar page.
Comparative review of this lens and 3 other classic 70-210mm TP's by Amateur Photography magazine, 1985 (scan, pdf).
Review and test chart results by Benjamin Govert - Vintage Lens Reviews.

Sticky iris issues due to lubricant degradation with age are not uncommon with this lens - this thread describes how to diy clean.

Read more at: Vivitar Series 1 70-210mm F2.8-4 Version 3 (komine) Lens Reviews - Vivitar Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

[gatorguy]

Even though failures are rarer in the K70, it would worry me a little. The KP is a beautiful thing but battery life isn't great unless you get a grip which also adds balance with bigger lenses, but that also adds $200. Aslyfox's suggestion of a K3ii is a good one. Great buffer, decent battery life, built like a tank, and that would give you room to get a plm, maybe?

The possibility of aperture failure on either one of my K-70's isn't even a momentary worry. I had the KP until earlier this year and currently a K1 too. I've been consistently shooting wildlife/landscapes during the shutdowns and finally more recently I've been fortunate to be able to do several portrait shoots. I'm finding my K-70's to be performing the same as my K1, nearly impossible to spot which images came from which camera. When I had the KP I'd always carry it and a K70 on a session. The "lowly" K-70 more than held its own, and in fact the KP was less convenient for me with the way the controls are placed and felt far less secure in hand. It was slower for me to shoot. Anyone moving from a KS-2 will be immediately comfortable with the grip and controls on the K70. The in-hand feel is nearly identical, and heck I can even dangle the K-70 (and K1) with just fingertips on the grip. Not so the KP.

The KP in my view is an outlier, a small frame fighting itself to find space to offer K1 controls. Obviously a lot of us adapted. I couldn't. I don't for a moment miss all those times having to reset my shot due to hitting the green button on the KP when I really wanted to focus (stupid position IMO), or the worry every time I reached for it that I might not have a firm grip on it. Even the largest grip felt small. It's the only Pentax camera I ever purchased that I took a disliking to. On other hand (!) the PF forum member I sold it to could not be happier. Several others here absolutely love the KP too and consider it their finest Pentax camera to date. I think MikeBike here is another member who has or had both, and he prefers the KP.

That's why it's great Pentax has given us two choices in budget-range cameras. For me I found zero advantage to the KP over a K70, so I bought it a twin. In most use cases they are even as effective a shooter as my K1. Most, not all Full-frame has it's place.

My opinion, and many others have different views. Ask your son which he prefers walking with, the KS2 or the KP, which one is the more comfortable camera for what he wants to shoot. If he likes what he has he might be happier with the K70.

EDIT: Was having a discussion with a guy on-line a few days ago. His grandson was using a pretty old PC and so with high school coming up he thought he'd surprise him: Make him a wonderful gift of a brand new mid-range Macbook, to him a major upgrade over anything Windows.

He was obviously excited to give it to him. BUT... The grandson didn't like it. Said he didn't like the MacOS, too weird to use, too much effort to figure it out, and he really wanted a PC because he knew how to use than. So thanks but no thanks. To make it acceptable he ended up buying and installing another drive so that he could load Windows on it and his grandson would then use it.

I suppose we should never assume what we believe to be the superior and smart choice is what someone else would choose if given the option.

[MikeMcE]

.

Ask your son which he prefers walking with, which one is the more comfortable camera for what he wants to shoot.

Wisdom, and the best answer here.


Hang up and DRIVE!

[reh321]

Consensus depends on who you ask. There is a dedicated cadre of about 4 or 5 PF members that will reliably contribute to threads like this with a broad claim that all non-flagship models from the K-30 forward are intrinsically prone to aperture control failure and that the risk is too great to justify a K-70 purchase. On the other side of the coin is the vast majority of happy K-70 owners who have have never had an issue with aperture control. Anecdotal evidence since the problem first surfaced on the K-30 is that owners of that model got hammered with many K-50 owners having similar problems. Reports regarding K-S1 and K-S2 seem to indicate much lower prevalence with the K-70 having even less problems.

As one of the "4 or 5 PF members", I would not take a chance on getting a snake-bitten K-70 - for $200 more you can get a KP and skip the drama.
Incidentally, we do not know even how many times the solenoid-controlled aperture control has failed on the K-30 and K-50.
Perhaps the failure rate for the K-30 and K-50 is 10% and on the K-70 is 1%. What we do know is that K-S2 and K-70 users occasionally show up here with a weird problem that turns out to be "Dark Image Syndrome" yet again; for me, the extra $200 is worth the cost of eliminating that possibility

[Cerebum]

The possibility of aperture failure on either one of my K-70's isn't even a momentary worry. I had the KP until earlier this year and currently a K1 too. I've been consistently shooting wildlife/landscapes during the shutdowns and finally more recently I've been fortunate to be able to do several portrait shoots. I'm finding my K-70's to be performing the same as my K1, nearly impossible to spot which images came from which camera. When I had the KP I'd always carry it and a K70 on a session. The "lowly" K-70 more than held its own, .......

Great post and I agree re grips, I have a K3 and KP. I dangle the k3 like the k30 before it and it always felt secure. As for aperture block, I believed it to be 30% of k30s and 50s but the fix is only £125 if you are out of warranty, like I was, which isn't a deal breaker. Like gatorguy said, get him what he likes best. I adore my K3 and my KP and the pleasure I get is more in the capture process than the image itself. My Nikon shooting friend calls Pentax a photographers camera. Bang on I'd say

[reh321]

Great post and I agree re grips, I have a K3 and KP. I dangle the k3 like the k30 before it and it always felt secure. As for aperture block, I believed it to be 30% of k30s and 50s but the fix is only £125 if you are out of warranty, like I was, which isn't a deal breaker. Like gatorguy said, get him what he likes best. I adore my K3 and my KP and the pleasure I get is more in the capture process than the image itself. My Nikon shooting friend calls Pentax a photographers camera. Bang on I'd say

I have a KP - which I use with the smallest grip - replacing my K-30.
I hold them exactly the same.
To me, the body aperture control is not an issue either; I got an FA 28-105 and now use 'green button' metering with the K-30, but I would miss TAv mode with my KP.
For me, I like the KP's flippy LCD more than the articulated LCD on the K-70, but honestly, the reassurance that the KP's aperture control won't go the way of the K-30's was - by itself - worth at least $200 to me - but I am 72 and I viewed the KP as possibly my last camera, so $200 was a small price for assuring myself of that.

[Cerebum]

I have a KP - which I use with the smallest grip - replacing my K-30.
I hold them exactly the same.
To me, the body aperture control is not an issue either; I got an FA 28-105 and now use 'green button' metering with the K-30, but I would miss TAv mode with my KP.
For me, I like the KP's flippy LCD more than the articulated LCD on the K-70, but honestly, the reassurance that the KP's aperture control won't go the way of the K-30's was - by itself - worth at least $200 to me - but I am 72 and I viewed the KP as possibly my last camera, so $200 was a small price for assuring myself of that.

I used the medium grip, right up to the point where I bought the battery grip, now I am slightly torn. The possibility of aperture control failure would be enough for me to pass on the K70 but the point I was making was the price of the repair doesn't kill the K70 for some people. I had my K30 fixed and would still have it if I hadn't need the money for my beloved KP. The fix on the K30 was worth it because I loved the camera. I just love the KP more I have never seen a K70 in the flesh but the images of it don't really move me, whereas the KP was love at first sight. I think the KP fits in a niche of its own. It doesn't really replace anything, has the best bits from several other models and divides opinion. If you like it there is no reason to get anything else, so, like you, this may well be the last camera I buy ........ Unless I see a really cheap K1

[stevebrot]

As one of the "4 or 5 PF members", I would not take a chance on getting a snake-bitten K-70 - for $200 more you can get a KP and skip the drama.

Nah...I always figure you to be the person who always recommends the KP over the K-70 because you are a happy KP owner.


Steve

[tonyzoc]

I had Aperture Block failure on my K-S2 and my K-70. So it can happen. My K-70 had 96 shutter actuations when I bought it used. Maybe sitting around unused for 2+ years contributed to the failure. Even so, I fixed the K-70 myself easily and I should have done the same with the K-S2 (if I had done more reading first). While I railed and ranted about "never again", truth is I really like the K-70 and wouldn't hesitate to buy one now (especially knowing how easy it is to fix).

Why not fix the K-S2? Buy the white solonoid on eBay and send it to me and I'll fix it for you for free.

[mikesbike]

The possibility of aperture failure on either one of my K-70's isn't even a momentary worry. I had the KP until earlier this year and currently a K1 too. I've been consistently shooting wildlife/landscapes during the shutdowns and finally more recently I've been fortunate to be able to do several portrait shoots. I'm finding my K-70's to be performing the same as my K1, nearly impossible to spot which images came from which camera. When I had the KP I'd always carry it and a K70 on a session. The "lowly" K-70 more than held its own, and in fact the KP was less convenient for me with the way the controls are placed and felt far less secure in hand. It was slower for me to shoot. Anyone moving from a KS-2 will be immediately comfortable with the grip and controls on the K70. The in-hand feel is nearly identical, and heck I can even dangle the K-70 (and K1) with just fingertips on the grip. Not so the KP.

The KP in my view is an outlier, a small frame fighting itself to find space to offer K1 controls. Obviously a lot of us adapted. I couldn't. I don't for a moment miss all those times having to reset my shot due to hitting the green button on the KP when I really wanted to focus (stupid position IMO), or the worry every time I reached for it that I might not have a firm grip on it. Even the largest grip felt small. It's the only Pentax camera I ever purchased that I took a disliking to. On other hand (!) the PF forum member I sold it to could not be happier. Several others here absolutely love the KP too and consider it their finest Pentax camera to date. I think MikeBike here is another member who has or had both, and he prefers the KP.

That's why it's great Pentax has given us two choices in budget-range cameras. For me I found zero advantage to the KP over a K70, so I bought it a twin. In most use cases they are even as effective a shooter as my K1. Most, not all Full-frame has it's place.

My opinion, and many others have different views. Ask your son which he prefers walking with, the KS2 or the KP, which one is the more comfortable camera for what he wants to shoot. If he likes what he has he might be happier with the K70.

EDIT: Was having a discussion with a guy on-line a few days ago. His grandson was using a pretty old PC and so with high school coming up he thought he'd surprise him: Make him a wonderful gift of a brand new mid-range Macbook, to him a major upgrade over anything Windows.

He was obviously excited to give it to him. BUT... The grandson didn't like it. Said he didn't like the MacOS, too weird to use, too much effort to figure it out, and he really wanted a PC because he knew how to use than. So thanks but no thanks. To make it acceptable he ended up buying and installing another drive so that he could load Windows on it and his grandson would then use it.

I suppose we should never assume what we believe to be the superior and smart choice is what someone else would choose if given the option.

Well, to each his own in terms of handling. As to zero advantages for the KP over the K-70, depends if one uses the advantages which do indeed exist and are numerous on top of not being subject to the aperture control failure. The new top controls are simply superior and more efficient beyond a doubt. But if they are of little or no advantage for your shooting style and needs, then it is zero for the controls. Just one example among others comes to mind for me- I often switch to spot metering when tricky lighting comes up. The best control among my cameras for this might be on my K-5 IIs, a lever atop the camera to switch between metering types without having to go to menus. The KP is nearly as good or maybe even quicker because once learned it may be possible to do this with the camera still in the shooting position. Top knob to AE then twirl the set dial. I have the same type of K-70 layout with my K-S2, so I know the differences. It is ok, but for fast accessibility, controls on the KP are superior.

As to a rear-button AF, I rarely use that, even though my K-5 IIs has a dedicated button for it. In my case I find just using the shutter button half press is better, after extensively using both methods. For me, simply using the one finger for both AF and firing the shot has been better after acclimating and experience. Faster, more sure and controlled, and better for stable holding of the camera, than pushing from the rear with the thumb, and then pushing from the front with the finger. But that is my preference.

The OP and family already know the differences, and as they learn more of the KP they might discover more, since they already have both the KP and the K-S2.

---------- Post added 08-28-20 at 02:50 PM ----------

I had Aperture Block failure on my K-S2 and my K-70. So it can happen. My K-70 had 96 shutter actuations when I bought it used. Maybe sitting around unused for 2+ years contributed to the failure. Even so, I fixed the K-70 myself easily and I should have done the same with the K-S2 (if I had done more reading first). While I railed and ranted about "never again", truth is I really like the K-70 and wouldn't hesitate to buy one now (especially knowing how easy it is to fix).

Why not fix the K-S2? Buy the white solonoid on eBay and send it to me and I'll fix it for you for free.

Yeah, not a bad idea to fix the K-S2 anyway, as it is a very nice lightweight but very capable camera and always good to have a backup body. But it is surely important to do so with that white solenoid because the usual fix is with the same type that is subject to failure! I like mine as a secondary body for casual snapshots and lightweight backup. Its imaging is very good, although I like my KP better in every way.

[The Squirrel Mafia]

Why not fix the K-S2? Buy the white solonoid on eBay and send it to me and I'll fix it for you for free.

Can't beat that with a baseball bat. Way cheaper than buying another camera!

[mikesbike]

Yes, surprising him with a KP would be fun! I got mine for $747USD which is only 200 more than the K 70. So putting in a little more is still on the table. He learns fast, so it won't take long to grow into a KP or K3. He has shot a little with the KP while I was at work. Yes, he outdid me!

He is evidently proving an advanced-level camera is appropriate in his case, despite his young age! And that price is quite amazing for what it is. What it is- is a rare design incorporating a high-end build and high-end performance. A very high-quality powerful photography tool in a compact form. Even more rare is having that in a modular design where that form can be expanded as the need arises! Try to find that in any other high-end class APS-C body of any brand. The KP might even be discontinued after the arrival of the new APS-C flagship, so get the unique KP while it is still here!

I'd also recommend eventually if not right off, getting the battery grip to allow maximum modular expansion, with high-level pro capability, definitely better balance with heavier lenses (in his future?), much more convenient vertical shooting, and much longer battery life so if shooting an event you don't have to be interrupted by battery changes. The weight will still only be about the same as the K-3 II by itself, yet with even greater battery life capability! Get the larger D- L190 for the grip, the same battery used in both the K-5 and K-3 series, but in the KP battery grip will be in series with its own smaller battery. A good idea too, get 1 or 2 extra of the standard batteries- I got a couple of Watson brand from B&H, which have been fine. The grip would likely be discontinued if the KP is. As you know, the KP is a compact beast of a camera, but a beautiful beast. I like mine in the silver/black 2-tone, but to each their own taste. Both finishes are of fine quality. With the grip it becomes a very impressive beast! It becomes something the K-70 could never be. If he should hold the KP with the grip attached, no doubt he'd get very excited- it is that different and impressive. By having two KP's this accessory could be used by various family members.

Does he know yet about varying depth of field (DOF) by varying aperture settings? Of either freezing action or showing some blur to show movement by varying shutter speed? These effects, as well as varying exposure according to especially challenging lighting conditions or for special effects by varying exposure? Or by using a fast lens (having wider aperture capability) which can provide adequately faster shutter speeds for shooting moving subjects with indoor lighting without flash? Or reducing DOF to blur background to make a subject stand out from it? These are just a few things one can control with a good DSLR that even the best phones cannot accomplish.

Do you know about the exclusive Pentax Hyper system?

In "M" Manual mode, you can exercise "Hyper Manual" simply by using the green button to instantly set meter-centered exposure instead of having to twirl the thumb (aperture) and finger (shutter speed) dials to get a meter-centered reading. This is extremely efficient, especially when taking meter readings of lighting around a scene to determine your exposure under tricky conditions. Then once you have the exposure value you wish, if you want to change the shutter speed (motion) or aperture DOF) next hit the AE-L button to lock the exposure, then as you select your aperture or shutter speed, the other will automatically follow along to preserve that exposure value. No other brand has this capability.

In the "P" Program mode, where the camera selects both aperture and shutter speed for fully automatic exposure, you can go into "Hyper Program" if you want to alter either aperture or shutter speed and override what the camera has chosen- simply by using the thumb or finger dial to instantly make your selection! You have then instantly switched the camera to either Tv or Av operation, and can instantly make your selection without having to first change the mode dial to Av or Tv! Very fast and efficient for making adjustments on the fly. Your selection will stay put until you restore full "P" operation by just a touch of the green button, or turn off the camera! No other brand has this capability. The K10D, K20D, K-5 series, K-3 series, the K-30, K-50, K-S2 and all current Pentax DSLR cameras have this design. it goes all the way back to the top Pentax 35mm bodies of the mid-1990's, but not all models had this feature until the more recent Penax model lineup.

I've used numerous Pentax DSLRs. Nearly all can deliver very good JPEG images right out of the camera. But I've found the KP's in-camera processing engine to be exceptional for right out-of-camera very fine highest quality JPEG results. If wanting this convenience rather than always going to post processing, the KP is tops. My usual tip for this, be sure first avoid having your mode dial set to the green auto mode, as the camera will be choosing many parameters based on what it "thinks" you will want, and most controls are disabled, and most adjustments are disallowed. Use the "P" mode if wanting fully automatic exposure. Then also set up "Fine Sharpening" in the Custom Image menus, especially in the most often-used "Bright" category. These are accessed via the "info" button, then after the quick adjustment screen comes up, the 4 buttons surrounding the "ok" button become navigation buttons. You should see the Custom Image department right away. It might already be on the "Bright" category by default, then you can go into its menu to implement "fine Sharpening" by using your thumb dial to put an "F" by the "S". This will allow exceptional fine detail to be realized in your images. The better the lens, the more this will be true.

Tips for future quality lenses- For a "fast" pro-style all-purpose zoom lens, the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM is a great choice and available at a very good price for a constant aperture f/2.8 lens. Excellent build, quality, though not having WR. Very sharp imaging. I often pair mine with the excellent Pentax DA* 50-135mm f.2.8 SDM WR for a very fine combo delivering exceptionally fine imaging, and for dealing with lower lighting situations, or whenever needing faster shutter speeds or reduced DOF. For very sharp imaging from prime lenses (non-zoom) for little money, both the DA 35mm f/2.4 and DA 50mm f/1.8 are excellent values. The 50mm is a very good portrait focal length and aperture capability, as well as various low-light uses.