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09-20-2020, 01:32 AM - 1 Like   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
The KP release price was USD 1099(todays exchange rate is 1507 AUD).

The NIPS(ar'ent getting bigger) said Knext will be more expensive and implied by a lot.So it possibly could be over 2000 AussieScholars or a bit more.



Get ready for a BIG difference from previous bodies!
We’ve had this discussion a few times, but the new body will have to present a good value proposition, if that’s the case. Only Ricoh knows what their market posture will be, whether this body will be aimed at present users, or seeking to attract significant numbers of new users.

While it may be that there’s a sufficiently large group of invested Pentax users willing to pay a big amount to upgrade to the new body, I’d have thought that selling almost exclusively into their existing user base would have a fair amount of risk, not least of which is the age profile and, more importantly in the immediate term, the financial capacity of that base.

So, if the strategy is to attract new users, we’re looking at a value proposition that stacks up against the competition, much of which is fairly new and being given significant coverage in the various photography media.

A big price rise inherently means a spectacular feature/performance specification, if that’s the case. As noelpolar says, we haven’t seen anything like that yet, but there’s still a lot to be revealed.

09-20-2020, 01:48 AM - 1 Like   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
It would need some wow (maybe even wow wow) features for that price point.... maybe it will have them.... but no mention so far.... so far I only see a K3II with KP IQ and improved viewfinder.... incremental at best.

I'm not being critical... just analytical as far as value price point goes.... maybe I'm calibrated to dcxpert 20% off......
Do you really think they design a completely new camera from ground up in order implement incremental features (at best)?
How can you assume a reasonable price for a camera when it its features are unknown?
09-20-2020, 04:34 AM - 2 Likes   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Do you really think they design a completely new camera from ground up in order implement incremental features (at best)?
How can you assume a reasonable price for a camera when it its features are unknown?
Ahhh.... we are just talking stuff..... like one does on forums. Off course, if this is the place where we are sorting out world hunger then let me know.....

Anyway.... I reckon after the K7 it's all sorta been incremental in that series (K7 to K5 to K3)... a little bit more of this and that..... nothing to justify a 1.5 to 2x price increase from one model to the next.... (like say K3 to might K1).

Also.... it would be rare.... sort off.... if the new Toyota Corolla was twice the cost of the last one..... one expects some advancement in tech and some price increase off course.... so I added about 30% to K3ish price to cover that. I'm not proposing I am right.... I'm expecting in Aust it might be more like $2k.... Hopefully they have solved some issues (ie AFC) to make this a great action camera for the 2021 to 2025 period.

Last edited by noelpolar; 09-20-2020 at 04:49 AM.
09-20-2020, 05:01 AM - 2 Likes   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
Ahhh.... we are just talking stuff..... like one does on forums. Off course, if this is the place where we are sorting out world hunger then let me know.....

Anyway.... I reckon after the K7 it's all sorta been incremental in that series (K7 to K5 to K3)... a little bit more of this and that..... nothing to justify a 1.5 to 2x price increase from one model to the next.... (like say K3 to might K1).

Also.... it would be rare.... sort off.... if the new Toyota Corolla was twice the cost of the last one..... one expects some advancement in tech and some price increase off course.... so I added about 30% to K3ish price to cover that. I'm not proposing I am right.... just forum talk. Hopefully they have solved some issues to make this a great action camera for 2020 to 2025.
Yeah, APS-C sensor tech is what it is and PDAF sensor tech is what it is. Pentax will charge a premium for better-than-typical-Pentax AF.C performance and the improved OVF, but apart from that it will 100% be an incremental improvement - not that it's a bad thing.

I'm not sure whether it was AsahiMan or Kimio Tanaka that said that it was "evolution, not revolution". That of course means they are not going to blow any other manufacturer's offerings out of the water* because technology right now is at the incremental-improvements stage... so it will be 'just' a very good camera in the vein of the K-7 platform. Probably the most noticeably step up between generations, though: K-7 to K-5 was mostly a massive sensor improvement. K-5 to K-3 improved AF/burst shooting a fair bit and added dual SD slots, Pixel Shift, Astrotracer, and WiFi. From what we know, K-3 to K-New improves the OVF, adds the third dial, more AF improvements and probably a touch screen. So, you know, an excellent camera, like the ones before it. But... not necessarily an "almost twice the price" camera. Not with the competition that's flying around.


*Another reminder that:
-Canon's 90D has good AF (including OVF face detection) that shoots at 10/11 fps with a decent buffer (25/58 raw/JPG), good IQ, the flippin' flip screen and is a solidly built body for about a grand (1300€ in Germany right now). This is a camera that was mostly built "from the ground up" (RGB sensor for OVF AF, completely new sensor, etc.). It's still, arguably, an incremental improvement over the 80D.
-Nikon has the D7500 selling for 850€ right now in Germany, which is a camera with reportedly excellent IQ and AF (8 fps isn't that much, but 50 raw files or 100 JPG is excellent), nicely weather sealed and all that jazz.


Last edited by Serkevan; 09-20-2020 at 05:41 AM. Reason: I forgot to finish a couple sentences, yay me.
09-20-2020, 05:36 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote


*Another reminder that:
-Canon's 90D has good AF (including OVF face detection) that shoots at 10/11 fps with a decent buffer (25/58 raw/JPG), good IQ, the flippin' flip screen and is a solidly built body for about a grand (1300€ in Germany right now). This is a camera that was mostly built "from the ground up" (RGB sensor for OVF AF, completely new sensor, etc.). It's still, arguably, an incremental improvement over

-Nikon has the D7500 selling for 850€ right now in Germany, which is a camera with reportedly excellent IQ and AF (8 fps isn't that much, but 50 raw files or 100 JPG is excellent), nicely weather sealed and all that jazz.
The 90D is about $1,700Aud here.... with a bonus 50/1.8....
09-20-2020, 05:38 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
The 90D is about $1,700Aud here.... with a bonus 50/1.8....
Oh, wow, that's a big difference (1050€?). Do you guys quote prices with or without taxes down under? The ones I posted are Amazon.de including 19% VAT, just in case part of the difference comes from there.
09-20-2020, 05:48 AM - 1 Like   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Oh, wow, that's a big difference (1050€?). Do you guys quote prices with or without taxes down under? The ones I posted are Amazon.de including 19% VAT, just in case part of the difference comes from there.
with tax included (GST of 10%).... our dollar is a bit like the candian dollar for the most part minus a few cents....... 1050€ is about $1700aud....... took me a while to find the € on the keyboard.... but I guess to really compare one needs country income type stats to understand affordability... anyway... 32mp would be nice..... especially if noise performance was current.... I found the K5 to K3 step a bit of give and take as far as resoloution and noise went.
09-20-2020, 06:05 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
I guess to really compare one needs country income type stats to understand affordability
Yeah, as an extreme example, India we peeked at the local Canon store during a shopping mall stop (in case the lady could get an interesting deal or something). Nope. Not at all, basically the same price - a middle-end camera costs what amounts to a lot of money for a significant portion of the population.

If production is centralized to a factory as is the case with camera stuff, the production costs are locked - which means there isn't a lot of wiggle room to do regional pricing. The end result is that non-local consumer stuff is only affordable in affluent countries. Despite purchasing power being fairly similar in Spain and Germany, for example, a camera is a much harsher expense in Spain because it costs a much higher proportion of salary.

09-20-2020, 09:33 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
I'm expecting in Aust it might be more like $2k...
at least

---------- Post added 09-21-20 at 03:41 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
$1,800Aud would be it....

Seems like inflation has set in.
09-20-2020, 09:57 AM   #145
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Not sure new sensor IQ will be the main draw

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The new sensor IQ may be another consideration, of course, but we won’t know how heavily it influences a potential buyer until we see the new body in action.
Pentax's apsc sensor IQ is already pretty good, and the upgrade path to FF and then the medium format is very good again. So, I'd say it's other features that would be the main draw, unless the new sensor can deliver iso 100 quality at iso 6400, which I think is highly unlikely, at least from the DR standpoint.

Plenty of places for the Knew to be better outside of IQ. How much better will determine how many will upgrade. I think we're talking upgrades mostly, because it's unlikely at this juncture that Pentax will gain tons of new customers with this release.
09-20-2020, 10:08 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
.

I think we're talking upgrades mostly, because it's unlikely at this juncture that Pentax will gain tons of new customers with this release.
Definitely. Anyone who was interested in Pentax cameras for the IQ is either one of us already, or the K-New won't quite change the game enough for a jump.
Those who want a "do everything" camera and need also better-than-previous-Pentax AF (at, say, D7500 level) probably won't justify the switch, either, particularly if they have a decent lens stable.
Those who needed absolute AF are certainly not going to move to Pentax because of the lack of PLM-like options so far.

Some who left Pentax because of AF woes but appreciated the rest of the system for what it was might come back to the fold. Most importantly, the host of people who use K-5/3 bodies ought to be a chunky enough crowd to sustain the business.

I don't think Pentax needs a huge market share, that hasn't been their game in a while. As long as some people get into photography through my path -even if it was overwhelmingly used stuff so far- to get some new blood into the Pentaxian hivemind, they should be alright.
09-20-2020, 12:31 PM   #147
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I am just curious, as I am not an engineer. I am wondering if brighter viewfinder can help AF work better? I am thinking no. In the end, improvement in user experience is great, but it needs to translate to better images at the end. Sensor performance of Pentax APS-C cameras are pretty good already, and what hampers it often is the AF in my view. So - one of the biggest selling point for a new Pentax camera of any kind with incremental changes is the AF. I may buy it just for that reason alone. With faster and more accurate AF I can certainly be more efficient.
09-20-2020, 12:42 PM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
I don't think Pentax needs a huge market share, that hasn't been their game in a while.
^ This. Cannot compare Pentax to Sony/Nikon/Canon. Pentax only needs enough volume to pay overhead and R&D. The others have huge marketing/advertising/distribution expenses. Pentax is more like a small mom & pop business. As long as the local (with local defined as Pentaxians) keep buying all is good. Eventually that customer base might too small for various reasons. But until then all is good.
09-20-2020, 12:51 PM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
^ This. Cannot compare Pentax to Sony/Nikon/Canon. Pentax only needs enough volume to pay overhead and R&D. The others have huge marketing/advertising/distribution expenses. Pentax is more like a small mom & pop business. As long as the local (with local defined as Pentaxians) keep buying all is good. Eventually that customer base might too small for various reasons. But until then all is good.
And that's why the camera needs to be compelling enough to make enough Pentax users want to upgrade.
The only thing we know about this camera so far, based on what Pentax have been saying, is that the vewfinder will be great, image quality will be at a level so far only associated with FF, and that it will have many new features and a fixed screen. Everything else is speculation.
09-20-2020, 12:57 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
And that's why the camera needs to be compelling enough to make enough Pentax users want to upgrade.
Let us hope it is. There is enough pent up demand for a modern K-3II that I think the camera will do very well even if it is not the magical upgrade some speculate about. There is plenty of volume just in K-5 and K-3 series owners who have waited years for a new body.

But if they want to price it above $1,800 there has to be something else to drive sales after the initial rush of buyers who have been waiting.
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