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09-14-2020, 05:45 AM - 1 Like   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
It should be noted that while it's true that the K-new has to compete it today's market, the D500 didn't launch at $1,500. and launch prices do come down,
The D500 price comes not only from the body, but from the system: Nikon has a bunch of fast, very expensive teles that the D500 could push with their 3D-tracking and the AF module is the same of the $6499 D5 which had been announced the same day - they sold the D500 to the numerous people in their userbase who wanted a lighter $6500 camera for birding with their expensive glass.

They also have a different market segmentation, because the then-current D7200 already had a 51-point very good AF module, which is I guess the "class" the K-New is shooting for*. Therefore, they could charge a hefty surcharge on the "super premium" body (which again, was sold as a crop-sensor D5). I'd say that it's not the same situation, system-wise. Many K-3 users looking to upgrade are advanced amateurs who don't want a KP, not necessarily hardcore birders with $10K in glass. Pricing them out won't get them to upgrade. I still think that $1800 is the absolute reasonable maximum...

And according to some members, having a tilting touchscreen clearly accounts for half the cost of the D500 :D

*Although I have exactly 0 doubts that the K-New will be a better product because of a myriad reasons.

09-14-2020, 05:54 AM   #62
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I don't think prices are set according to what people are willing to pay, but to make a reasonable profit. Although one can overcharge a product if the market demand is very high. In today's reality it is probably not an option. Neither is the idea that Pentax could sell the camera cheap. It is a new platform. So it has been expensive to develop
09-14-2020, 05:55 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Pricing them out won't get them to upgrade. I still think that $1800 is the absolute reasonable maximum...
No argument there

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
And according to some members, having a tilting touchscreen clearly accounts for half the cost of the D500
;D
09-14-2020, 05:58 AM - 2 Likes   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I don't think prices are set according to what people are willing to pay, but to make a reasonable profit.
The normal logic is that you price to make a profit then add what you can get away with, isn't it?

09-14-2020, 06:30 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
The normal logic is that you price to make a profit then add what you can get away with, isn't it?
That's a myth except for some luxury products. I think it is hard to make money on cameras these days.....
09-14-2020, 06:38 AM   #66
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When you think of how many cameras they would have to sell to make up for the development cost of the new viewfinder mechanism alone, I doubt they are going to make money on these cameras. If it is true that they have spent years working on it, the salaries alone to their R&D employees will be hard to recoup. But I think camera bodies are largely made to sell lenses anyway.
09-14-2020, 06:41 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flubber Quote
When you think of how many cameras they would have to sell to make up for the development cost of the new viewfinder mechanism alone, I doubt they are going to make money on these cameras. If it is true that they have spent years working on it, the salaries alone to their R&D employees will be hard to recoup. But I think camera bodies are largely made to sell lenses anyway.
The cost can certainly be spread over several models - the new viewfinder isn't tied to the K-New. There's no saying how much it cost them to develop the camera (or all the tech that goes into it). We'll know the price soon enough.

09-14-2020, 06:48 AM   #68
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You're right. But the development of more cameras probably in part depends on the succes of this one. If it turns out to be a hard sell, and largely a loss for them, then the newly developed technology may not necessarily lead to other models. But yes.. We're all just guessing.

Some people mention that the camera is probably going to be cheap because Pentax usually is. But as a company I am not sure you want to be known as the cheaper brand - ideally you want to charge as much as you can, instead of selling at the bare minimum.
09-14-2020, 06:48 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flubber Quote
I have a question for you guys. Since I said that I was willing to go as high as $2000-$2500, which is K1-II range, would I be better off buying the K1 anyway? Most of my lenses are full frame lenses anyway, and I haven't invested in ApS-c specific lenses. I also only shoot in manual, because I find it fun, so autofocus is not important to me. Would I theoretically be better off buying full frame, to get more out of the gear that I already own?

Just a theoretic question - thinking out loud here. This thought didn't occur to me earlier.
Only you can answer this question---and add your comment below that for you IQ trumps portability. I think the advice to wait to see what the Knew offers is sage. That said, unless the Knew offers some compelling specs for you and your use-case, then I'd say the K1/K1mkII is a no-brainer, based on what you have shared with us.
09-14-2020, 06:50 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
The cost can certainly be spread over several models - the new viewfinder isn't tied to the K-New. There's no saying how much it cost them to develop the camera (or all the tech that goes into it). We'll know the price soon enough.
The developing cost of the MZ-D was $20 000 000.....
09-14-2020, 06:51 AM   #71
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Thank you Tex. I will wait and see like you suggested. There is no rush anyway, and I feel that the announcement is close either way, so it makes no sense to rush out and buy anything immediately. Unless I magically stumble upon some kind of no-brainer deal.
09-14-2020, 06:52 AM - 1 Like   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flubber Quote
I have a question for you guys. Since I said that I was willing to go as high as $2000-$2500, which is K1-II range, would I be better off buying the K1 anyway? Most of my lenses are full frame lenses anyway, and I haven't invested in ApS-c specific lenses. I also only shoot in manual, because I find it fun, so autofocus is not important to me. Would I theoretically be better off buying full frame, to get more out of the gear that I already own?

Just a theoretic question - thinking out loud here. This thought didn't occur to me earlier.
In a word, yes. They can put all the improvements they want into this new camera, but it is still going to be an APS-C camera in around 24mp. No amount of whiz bang features can get around that simple fact.
09-14-2020, 07:01 AM - 1 Like   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
The developing cost of the MZ-D was $20 000 000.....
There's a difference between entering a new market with a project that had runaway costs so high the entire thing had to get shut down* (and pushing forward trying to make the same doomed sensor work was the end of Contax) and building upon a tried-and-true system.

As an anecdote, it took me more than a year to get our first production protocol going. The first subsequent "fork" to make a fairly different product took about two months.

*And I can guarantee that they didn't pull the plug at the first sign of trouble; the budget probably had bloated itself into orbit at that point.
09-14-2020, 07:24 AM   #74
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True, but it still cost lots of money. There aren't that many DSLR makers in the world, or even MILC makers, and this reflect that fact....
09-14-2020, 07:38 AM - 1 Like   #75
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The thing is, if the K-new is priced too ambitiously it will compete with the K-1. Some will say "for just a little more I can get that K-1 I have been dreaming about." That's good for Ricoh - one more K-1 sold. It is also not so good - fewer sales of K-new to recoup development costs. Or not too bad, cross subsidizing applies between models.

A bad scenario are those who will say "for that sort of money I can get a used K-1." That's good for the Pentax community but bad Ricoh - used camera sales do not contribute to their bottom line. Perhaps in the sense that it sells lenses, but there is a used market for that as well.

The worst case scenario are those who will say "for that money I can get a Nikon Z5 or Z50 and a K mount adapter." Perish the thought!

There is the buyer with a collection of crop frame lenses who will not find the K-1 appealing. For them the extra money of a K-new over a KP must hold a compelling value proposition. If the gap is too great, the KP will get the nod. There are no easy answers here.
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