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10-01-2020, 05:06 PM - 3 Likes   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by troika Quote
I think there was miscommunication, I didn't mean to imply anything contrary to what you are saying.

My poorly articulated point is that I see the K7 - K5 - K3 to be an evolution of a specific camera line. I see the KP as a nice surprise that has appealed to and worked out great for people like you.

It is still an ASP-C and is in fact a better ASP-C (at image quality) than the most recently available camera in the line mentioned above, so I would have really liked to see those advancements released into a camera of that line, but they didn't make that option available. Therefore, I'm looking forward to the to-be-released camera.
I believe the new camera is KP plus K-3ii things plus some things that were only dreams when the KP was released.
In summary, something well worth waiting for.

10-01-2020, 05:34 PM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
My interpretation is that the new camera was not available as soon as the executives expected it to be.
I really thought that was implied in one of the videos or somewhere, due to slowing down because of covid.

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I believe the new camera is KP plus K-3ii things plus some things that were only dreams when the KP was released.
In summary, something well worth waiting for.
I agree, I envision this camera to be very advanced with some brand new type advances. They always do have a few, but they don't always match every users wants. I would guess they are already planning the "II" version with additional features some that are still in development.
10-01-2020, 06:26 PM - 4 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
The K-7 was pretty much just a K20D in a new body.
I beg to differ with you on this point. Everything the K20D did, the K-7 simply did better and did so in the context of a much more capable platform.*

I also am somewhat confused by this concept of series. If one means chassis platforms, the breakdown would be:
  • *istD series
  • K10D series
  • K-7 series

If one means technology stages:
  • *istD series
  • K10D/K20D series
  • K-7/K-5 series
  • K-3/K-3II series
  • K-new series

Of course, my perspective is based on having owned or handled/shot with every flagship from the K10D forward and is slanted as a result.


Steve

* I saw the K-7 before it was generally available as part of a road-trip event show-casing the camera and the then new DA Limited lenses.
10-01-2020, 06:33 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
If one means technology stages:
*istD series
K10D/K20D series
K-7/K-5 series
K-3/K-3II series
K-new series
I actually really appreciate this perspective.
I guess my main point was that the K-3 should be held distinct from the K-7/K-5, and this perspective works well with that.

10-01-2020, 06:46 PM - 2 Likes   #20
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One of my thoughts on the "early" discontinuing of the K-3 II might be to reduce the inventory of the KP. I don't know how they do production runs, but if they were sitting on a bunch of KP bodies, were about out of K-3 II bodies, and knew they had a killer camera in the works, it might be a strategic decision to sell the KPs on hand without a more appealing new camera to compete with.
10-01-2020, 06:57 PM - 2 Likes   #21
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My vision (for what little that is worth) is that Pentax has had two lines of APS-C cameras. The entry level body (K-30, K-50, K-70) and the pro-sumer level body (K-7, K-5, K-3). Each iteration has had improvements but the size, battery, controls, features have been somewhat distinct. The other models such as KS2 and KP have seemed to me to be technology demonstrators rather than a part of the 'lines'.

I am not sure what Pentax intended with the K-1. Surely they had heard the demand for a digital FF from its film era user base. And in some ways it was a gamble that it would sell. At that time Pentax was 100% focused on APS-C. I suspect they got the green light for it but that higher expected it to be a slow seller and it would be a one off. But sales met or exceeded expectations which allowed further development and releases. But much of the technology in the K-1 is simply K-3 wrought larger.

The question in my mind is whether the K-new will be the next step in the existing K-7/5/3/1 line or if it is the beginning of a completely new series. I think that the answer to that is what defines the future of Pentax.
10-01-2020, 07:15 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
it is the beginning of a completely new series.
RI have stated that its completely new.When is the Q!
10-01-2020, 07:20 PM   #23
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Pentax needs a new nomenclature. They have counted down as far as they can go!

Let's start counting up:

Any new full-frame could be KF-n (where F = Full, n = 2 or higher, but keep going up)

A new APS-C camera (= K-New?) could be KA-nnn, perhaps KA-1

Gives you a feeling for what sensor version is being upgraded, and leaves plenty of room for future products.

10-01-2020, 07:27 PM - 5 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
Hey all, I'd like to stir up some discussion on how I think people perceive the Pentax APS-C flagship series:
To stir the discussion even further, I wonder if Pentax (or Hoya or Ricoh) even thinks in "flagship" terms.

The problem with "flagships" is that although everyone loves the concept of a best-of-the-best all-features-included camera, too few people are willing and able to actually pay the highest-of-high prices for all the bells-and-whistles plus R&D to design in all the bells-and-whistles plus the higher price point required by a camera with so few sales to support all those high costs.

From what I've seen, the Pentax philosophy from the K-10D on has been to make a very good camera at a very good price rather than try to make the very best camera for the very highest price. It seems like all the bigger camera makers that have put out true flagships have asked for prices above $4,000.

In essence, Pentax makes cameras that make good pictures using a nice set of features rather than stroke photographer egos with a boat load of flagship bells-and-whistles.
10-01-2020, 07:56 PM - 3 Likes   #25
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The KP is a very capable camera, but it's not nearly as comfortable to hold as the K-5II. Its battery life is poor, made worse because the top LCD is missing - I have to use the back LCD as a substitute periodically. The tilt screen is really useful at times for waist-level shooting and live-view focus continuous single point tracking & recompose - I'm addicted to that very accurate and reliable AF method, only available in LV - it's also in the K-5. It can be marvellously convenient at times. Holding the camera at waist level with the screen tilted can also give me more physical control of the composition at times. The KP is everything I want in a stills camera, except for the small battery and lack of IR.

I suspect Ricoh designed the KP to be as small as possible, to distinguish it from the K-1. But they made a mistake in not keeping the large battery and K-7/5/3 grip design.
10-01-2020, 08:09 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
... I suspect there may have been one or more key components in the K-3 / K-3II that were no longer available in sufficient quantities to support another production batch run and warranty repair stocks. ...
I have the same opinion regarding why the K-3 vanished. Pentax has a very long design process, so by the time a product reaches market it already has some "obsolete" parts at risk of being discontinued.
10-02-2020, 12:45 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by cometguy Quote
... K-3 II and add a better sensor with smaller pixel sizes (with, say, 26, 28, or 30 Mpx, or even more) and thus better resolution...
You're mixing concepts.
A better sensor doesn't necessarily mean more MP, it could be better dynamic range or noise, both of which aren't helped by increased MP.
Current trend seems to be improving DR and noise over generations, not MP. Current APS cameras are around 20-26, with no signs of increasing.
They're talking about improved noise, so don't expect a big increase in MP, if any, even with an improved processor.
10-02-2020, 01:27 AM - 1 Like   #28
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I think the term flagship is not really applicable to the Pentax DSLRs, regardless of ownership.

First, regarding the frequency of new cameras. Let's not forget that between 2000 and 2016 (more or less), each year has seen a lot of progress regarding the technology per se. Be it sensors, hardware behind it, software. It is not surprising that the companies including Pentax were pumping out cameras at a higher pace than today. Since the technology reached its plateau (ad smartphones killed a good part of the market), mirrorless is now "the" new thing. However, Ricoh is not going that path. So, Ricoh can take the necessary time to develop a new camera every so and so years. We already learned that the market share is minute, so why bother with the rat race?

Now, they will have a new DSLR, which some might consider flagship, but I think that is not what Ricoh has in mind. They will deliver a camera with (very) advanced features. We will see if they continue to produce a lower priced/spec'ed APSC model. Same for FF. When it came out, it may have been planned as a one time offer to please the FF crowd. However, I think they will continue with FF and MF since both sell. Every so and so years, they will offer a new body in each line with advanced features. It cant be a flagship, however, if there is no lower spec'ed series like CaNikon offers or offered in the past. If you only have two models, a lower spec and a higher spec (eg APSC), that's not a fleet which has a flagship. If any, 645z would be the flagship.

And if you look here, it's not always the most advanced vessel which is considered flagship.
10-02-2020, 02:33 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
One of my thoughts on the "early" discontinuing of the K-3 II might be to reduce the inventory of the KP. I don't know how they do production runs, but if they were sitting on a bunch of KP bodies, were about out of K-3 II bodies, and knew they had a killer camera in the works, it might be a strategic decision to sell the KPs on hand without a more appealing new camera to compete with.

This is spot on. The KP at launch costed about the same as the K-3II and the end of its sales life. Making two cameras at the same price point would just simply divide the sales between two bodies. A new batch of K-3s was probably not seen as viable in this context. In addition, a new body with sufficient new tech to distance it enough from the K3 and the KP was not ready. Hence the delay....
10-02-2020, 02:34 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
I have the same opinion regarding why the K-3 vanished. Pentax has a very long design process, so by the time a product reaches market it already has some "obsolete" parts at risk of being discontinued.
By the time any space mission is launched by NASA or ESA or whoever, it contains many components that are years out of date. Hardware is locked in a long time before launch, as systems have to be tested and benchmarked many times over in conjunction with everything else on the spacecraft.

I expect it is the same for camera manufacturers; they cannot be expected to adopt a new sensor (say) only months from launch, even if it is a major advancement. The new hardware gets rolled over to the next model, by which time it is old.
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