Challenging the APS-C Flagship Series

ZombieArmy · 10-09-2020, 02:47 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Lord Lucan

They need to attract new users because they will run out of existing loyal ones for three simultaneous reasons :

I got into Pentax a few years ago because the brand is probably one of the more accessible ones for beginners. I'm in my 20s, I don't have some old attachment to the brand.
However the bodies used were cheap and the old glass extremely available. It made getting into the hobby very easy and cheap and have since bought a brand new body.

**jpzk** · 10-09-2020, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

I'm with you on that one... Indeed, I'll go one further and admit I'm too lazy to go back and find the various sources of information (some official, some not) - but they include Ricoh announcements, videos and product shots as well as people close to privileged information on the new camera's development.

Thanks, Mike.

After (not) much consideration, I'll patiently wait for real news from Ricoh ... I mean, the whole official "shebang" !

**BigMackCam** · 10-09-2020, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

Thanks, Mike.

After (not) much consideration, I'll patiently wait for real news from Ricoh ... I mean, the whole official "shebang" !

It's worth watching the videos if you can find the links for them by searching the forums (or maybe some kind member has a record of them and will post them here). The viewfinder, screen and "improved AF" are discussed, amongst other things. Interestingly, the Japanese-to-English translations describe the new camera as a "flagship" model (which more-or-less settles argument around use of the term

)...

**mikesbike** · 10-09-2020, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by cometguy

When I need a quick photo that needs fill-in flash nowadays and I don't have my DSLR camera with built-in or mounted flash available, I'll just use my 12-Mpx iPhone camera that's always with me anyway.

But I'll bet it can't use a larger aperture and/or longer FL to blur the background, making your subject stand out from it, and with good bokeh!

**mikesbike** · 10-09-2020, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

I got into Pentax a few years ago because the brand is probably one of the more accessible ones for beginners. I'm in my 20s, I don't have some old attachment to the brand.
However the bodies used were cheap and the old glass extremely available. It made getting into the hobby very easy and cheap and have since bought a brand new body.

Good for you! And I know you love your KP- it's got the goods!

Lord Lucan · 10-10-2020, 01:37 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jpzk

Just curious, and I'm too lazy to browse the entire thread,where is all that "official information"?

PENTAX PRINCIPLES | brand | RICOH IMAGING

Links to two important videos are right at the bottom

leekil · 10-11-2020, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by Lord Lucan

PENTAX PRINCIPLES | brand | RICOH IMAGING

Links to two important videos are right at the bottom

That page actually shows young people using Pentax! So presumably they are interested in those users.

**stihlmania** · 10-11-2020, 06:37 PM - **2 Likes**

Volume #3, Pentax product stories- " Because the new APS-C-format flagship camera now in development features a range of entirely new components — including the image sensor, imaging engine and accelerator unit — it assures outstanding imaging performance, not only in the high-sensitivity ranges, but at levels of sensitivity as low as ISO 100. All PENTAX SLR cameras also provide a selection of Custom Image modes to provide the fine adjustment of various parameters, making it possible for users to create images with the desired finishing touch right there at the shooting location.

In addition, incorporating an angle-adjustable screen in a compact body often makes it difficult to increase the size of the LCD monitor. That’s why PENTAX decided to equip this new camera with a fixed-type 3.2-inch monitor. This was a decision based on our goal of allowing the photographer to confirm the image’s quality and composition on a larger screen at the shooting location, while still keeping with the basic design concept of a compact, sturdy body. " ...........I guess that answers the flippy screen question.....

Lord Lucan · 10-12-2020, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by stihlmania

[quoting Pentax words] incorporating an angle-adjustable screen in a compact body often makes it difficult to increase the size of the LCD monitor. That’s why PENTAX decided to equip this new camera with a fixed-type 3.2-inch monitor

That statement negates all the arguments we have seen here that the screen is fixed because Pentax want you to use the superb improved OVF, and discourage you from using the screen.

Where did you find that BTW? Have you a link to it?

Anyway, I detect BS. A moveable screen would add depth than a fixed one, and we can debate just how much, but there is no reason it should require more area around it.

**Serkevan** · 10-12-2020, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by Lord Lucan

That statement negates all the arguments we have seen here that the screen is fixed because Pentax want you to use the superb improved OVF, and discourage you from using the screen.

Where did you find that BTW? Have you a link to it?

Anyway, I detect BS. A moveable screen would add depth than a fixed one, and we can debate just how much, but there is no reason it should require more area around it.

Product Stories of New APS-C Vol.3?Wakashiro? | PENTAX official New APS-C product stories, volume 3.

In the same article they say "Since a reduced body depth makes for a greater protrusion of the viewfinder eyepiece — which provides the benefit of keeping the photographer’s nose from coming in contact with the LCD monitor — it can make viewfinder shooting more comfortable", which is a massive 'nope, doesn't work like that'. I know this because not only do I have 3 mm-thick glasses, I have the O-ME53 magnifier on my K-1 so I have an entire cm of clearance compared to the 3mm of the K-New, and I would need at least another cm to not smush my nose and cheeks against the LCD, which is anyway a non-issue...

From that alone, I'm inclined to believe it's mostly marketing throughout, but it's true that the 'glassed over' part of the LCD on the K-New extends a good bit to each side like in the GRiii, so maybe a touchscreen does require more clearance to the sides. The A7R4 also has the same additional area glassed over, in fact. Then again, the D850/D500 don't... might be a thing with the model of LCD they sourced.

**Rondec** · 10-12-2020, 02:53 AM - **11 Likes**

Originally posted by Lord Lucan

That statement negates all the arguments we have seen here that the screen is fixed because Pentax want you to use the superb improved OVF, and discourage you from using the screen.

Where did you find that BTW? Have you a link to it?

Anyway, I detect BS. A moveable screen would add depth than a fixed one, and we can debate just how much, but there is no reason it should require more area around it.

Can we just say that they deliberately chose to use a fixed screen, even if it wasn't a good choice from some points of view? I feel like I'm trying to explain to my wife why I decided to buy a gallon of apple cider at the grocery. It was a deliberate decision on my part, but maybe it wasn't the smartest decision I have ever made and maybe our kids don't need apple cider right now, but I guess they'll just have to deal with the consequences of my decision.

**stihlmania** · 10-12-2020, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by Lord Lucan

That statement negates all the arguments we have seen here that the screen is fixed because Pentax want you to use the superb improved OVF, and discourage you from using the screen.

Where did you find that BTW? Have you a link to it?

Anyway, I detect BS. A moveable screen would add depth than a fixed one, and we can debate just how much, but there is no reason it should require more area around it.

Check the link in the post from Serkevan...

MarkJerling · 10-12-2020, 03:32 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

Can we just say that they deliberately chose to use a fixed screen, even if it wasn't a good choice from some points of view? I feel like I'm trying to explain to my wife why I decided to buy a gallon of apple cider at the grocery. It was a deliberate decision on my part, but maybe it wasn't the smartest decision I have ever made and maybe our kids don't need apple cider right now, but I guess they'll just have to deal with the consequences of my decision.

Well said.

I do wonder how many more months of flippy screen talk there will be. I can count on my one hand the number of times I have shot with the K-1's screen in any position other than 'docked'.

Paul the Sunman · 10-12-2020, 03:34 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MarkJerling

I can count on my one hand the number of times I have shot with the K-1's screen in any position other than 'docked'.

Mine gets a lot of use, especially for low nature shots, waist-level street photography, and overhead shots in crowds.

MarkJerling · 10-12-2020, 04:11 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

Mine gets a lot of use, especially for low nature shots, waist-level street photography, and overhead shots in crowds.

Maybe so, but I wager that the K-new designers have designed the camera more for people like me who shoot almost exclusively with the viewfinder.

10-12-2020, 01:33 AM	#129
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,960	Originally posted by stihlmania [quoting Pentax words] incorporating an angle-adjustable screen in a compact body often makes it difficult to increase the size of the LCD monitor. That’s why PENTAX decided to equip this new camera with a fixed-type 3.2-inch monitor That statement negates all the arguments we have seen here that the screen is fixed because Pentax want you to use the superb improved OVF, and discourage you from using the screen. Where did you find that BTW? Have you a link to it? Anyway, I detect BS. A moveable screen would add depth than a fixed one, and we can debate just how much, but there is no reason it should require more area around it. Last edited by Lord Lucan; 10-12-2020 at 01:48 AM. Reason: Added last para

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10-09-2020, 02:47 PM - 2 Likes	#121
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210	Originally posted by Lord Lucan They need to attract new users because they will run out of existing loyal ones for three simultaneous reasons : I got into Pentax a few years ago because the brand is probably one of the more accessible ones for beginners. I'm in my 20s, I don't have some old attachment to the brand. However the bodies used were cheap and the old glass extremely available. It made getting into the hobby very easy and cheap and have since bought a brand new body.

10-09-2020, 02:50 PM	#122
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by BigMackCam I'm with you on that one... Indeed, I'll go one further and admit I'm too lazy to go back and find the various sources of information (some official, some not) - but they include Ricoh announcements, videos and product shots as well as people close to privileged information on the new camera's development. Thanks, Mike. After (not) much consideration, I'll patiently wait for real news from Ricoh ... I mean, the whole official "shebang" !

10-09-2020, 03:02 PM	#123
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,657	Originally posted by jpzk Thanks, Mike. After (not) much consideration, I'll patiently wait for real news from Ricoh ... I mean, the whole official "shebang" ! It's worth watching the videos if you can find the links for them by searching the forums (or maybe some kind member has a record of them and will post them here). The viewfinder, screen and "improved AF" are discussed, amongst other things. Interestingly, the Japanese-to-English translations describe the new camera as a "flagship" model (which more-or-less settles argument around use of the term )...

10-09-2020, 03:31 PM	#124
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	Originally posted by cometguy When I need a quick photo that needs fill-in flash nowadays and I don't have my DSLR camera with built-in or mounted flash available, I'll just use my 12-Mpx iPhone camera that's always with me anyway. But I'll bet it can't use a larger aperture and/or longer FL to blur the background, making your subject stand out from it, and with good bokeh!

10-09-2020, 04:55 PM	#125
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	Originally posted by ZombieArmy I got into Pentax a few years ago because the brand is probably one of the more accessible ones for beginners. I'm in my 20s, I don't have some old attachment to the brand. However the bodies used were cheap and the old glass extremely available. It made getting into the hobby very easy and cheap and have since bought a brand new body. Good for you! And I know you love your KP- it's got the goods!

10-10-2020, 01:37 AM - 1 Like	#126
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,960	Originally posted by jpzk Just curious, and I'm too lazy to browse the entire thread,where is all that "official information"? PENTAX PRINCIPLES \| brand \| RICOH IMAGING Links to two important videos are right at the bottom

10-11-2020, 05:39 PM	#127
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Originally posted by Lord Lucan PENTAX PRINCIPLES \| brand \| RICOH IMAGING Links to two important videos are right at the bottom That page actually shows young people using Pentax! So presumably they are interested in those users.

10-11-2020, 06:37 PM - 2 Likes	#128
stihlmania Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Spring Branch, Tx Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 705	Volume #3, Pentax product stories- " Because the new APS-C-format flagship camera now in development features a range of entirely new components — including the image sensor, imaging engine and accelerator unit — it assures outstanding imaging performance, not only in the high-sensitivity ranges, but at levels of sensitivity as low as ISO 100. All PENTAX SLR cameras also provide a selection of Custom Image modes to provide the fine adjustment of various parameters, making it possible for users to create images with the desired finishing touch right there at the shooting location. In addition, incorporating an angle-adjustable screen in a compact body often makes it difficult to increase the size of the LCD monitor. That’s why PENTAX decided to equip this new camera with a fixed-type 3.2-inch monitor. This was a decision based on our goal of allowing the photographer to confirm the image’s quality and composition on a larger screen at the shooting location, while still keeping with the basic design concept of a compact, sturdy body. " ...........I guess that answers the flippy screen question.....

10-12-2020, 02:30 AM	#130
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by Lord Lucan That statement negates all the arguments we have seen here that the screen is fixed because Pentax want you to use the superb improved OVF, and discourage you from using the screen. Where did you find that BTW? Have you a link to it? Anyway, I detect BS. A moveable screen would add depth than a fixed one, and we can debate just how much, but there is no reason it should require more area around it. Product Stories of New APS-C Vol.3?Wakashiro? \| PENTAX official New APS-C product stories, volume 3. In the same article they say "Since a reduced body depth makes for a greater protrusion of the viewfinder eyepiece — which provides the benefit of keeping the photographer’s nose from coming in contact with the LCD monitor — it can make viewfinder shooting more comfortable", which is a massive 'nope, doesn't work like that'. I know this because not only do I have 3 mm-thick glasses, I have the O-ME53 magnifier on my K-1 so I have an entire cm of clearance compared to the 3mm of the K-New, and I would need at least another cm to not smush my nose and cheeks against the LCD, which is anyway a non-issue... From that alone, I'm inclined to believe it's mostly marketing throughout, but it's true that the 'glassed over' part of the LCD on the K-New extends a good bit to each side like in the GRiii, so maybe a touchscreen does require more clearance to the sides. The A7R4 also has the same additional area glassed over, in fact. Then again, the D850/D500 don't... might be a thing with the model of LCD they sourced.

10-12-2020, 02:53 AM - 11 Likes	#131
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by Lord Lucan That statement negates all the arguments we have seen here that the screen is fixed because Pentax want you to use the superb improved OVF, and discourage you from using the screen. Where did you find that BTW? Have you a link to it? Anyway, I detect BS. A moveable screen would add depth than a fixed one, and we can debate just how much, but there is no reason it should require more area around it. Can we just say that they deliberately chose to use a fixed screen, even if it wasn't a good choice from some points of view? I feel like I'm trying to explain to my wife why I decided to buy a gallon of apple cider at the grocery. It was a deliberate decision on my part, but maybe it wasn't the smartest decision I have ever made and maybe our kids don't need apple cider right now, but I guess they'll just have to deal with the consequences of my decision.

10-12-2020, 03:22 AM	#132
stihlmania Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Spring Branch, Tx Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 705	Originally posted by Lord Lucan That statement negates all the arguments we have seen here that the screen is fixed because Pentax want you to use the superb improved OVF, and discourage you from using the screen. Where did you find that BTW? Have you a link to it? Anyway, I detect BS. A moveable screen would add depth than a fixed one, and we can debate just how much, but there is no reason it should require more area around it. Check the link in the post from Serkevan...

10-12-2020, 03:32 AM - 1 Like	#133
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,403	Originally posted by Rondec Can we just say that they deliberately chose to use a fixed screen, even if it wasn't a good choice from some points of view? I feel like I'm trying to explain to my wife why I decided to buy a gallon of apple cider at the grocery. It was a deliberate decision on my part, but maybe it wasn't the smartest decision I have ever made and maybe our kids don't need apple cider right now, but I guess they'll just have to deal with the consequences of my decision. Well said. I do wonder how many more months of flippy screen talk there will be. I can count on my one hand the number of times I have shot with the K-1's screen in any position other than 'docked'.

10-12-2020, 03:34 AM - 1 Like	#134
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,842	Originally posted by MarkJerling I can count on my one hand the number of times I have shot with the K-1's screen in any position other than 'docked'. Mine gets a lot of use, especially for low nature shots, waist-level street photography, and overhead shots in crowds.

10-12-2020, 04:11 AM - 1 Like	#135
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,403	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman Mine gets a lot of use, especially for low nature shots, waist-level street photography, and overhead shots in crowds. Maybe so, but I wager that the K-new designers have designed the camera more for people like me who shoot almost exclusively with the viewfinder.

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