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10-06-2020, 07:12 PM   #16
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To me it would not be a question, newer technology, new camera has a warranty vs used camera with no knowledge of history. And as Ismael said: +Pentax Forums.

10-06-2020, 07:32 PM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxxoid Quote
I would be stuck with much more expensive FF lenses. This is indeed a factor, but I am willing to bite it.
There is a lot of used Nikon glass available at reasonable prices, and also a large number of quality third party lenses for Nikon.

I think to make the best decision you will need to carefully consider the genres of photography you intend to engage in.
10-06-2020, 07:39 PM   #18
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A newer (and new) camera versus a used camera with 50k + actuations. A no brainer IMO. And you get a Pentax.
10-06-2020, 07:44 PM   #19
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I should probably specify my lenses
The only Pentax lens I have AND LOVE is FA 50/2.8 macro. Even though it is a film lens, I use it every time I can.
My standard zoom is cheap, and I was going to replace it with either DA 16-85/3.5-5.6, or DA 20-40/2.8-4. 20-40 is more appealing emotionally, but 16-85 is more practical.
The other lens I have is FA 100-300/4.7-5.8.

I do not have any Nikkor's, but I was thinking of getting NIKKOR 24-85/3.5-4.5G ED VR as my first Nikon lens. There are SO MANY MORE used Nikkor lenses than (autofocus) Pentax lenses, and it seems possible to get used pro lenses for the same $ as new Pentax lenses.

So, for me the only real loss would be 50/2.8 macro.

I got Pentax 25 years ago because I loved the people who used Pentax, and I had a lot more respect for Asahi than I did for Canon/Nikon. Currently, I have K110D. What I do not appreciate in K110D (besides 6Mp): autofocus (speed, accuracy, and performance in low light), and extremely long file saving time. I loved my film MZ-6 way better. I want a camera that would be adequate for the next 10 years in a USD1000 budget for the body. I am not a pro. I photograph mostly my kids (for memories), and landscapes (for emotional vacation).

10-06-2020, 08:07 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxxoid Quote
I photograph mostly my kids (for memories), and landscapes (for emotional vacation).
That Nikon will do landscapes quite well but i'm wondering if its fast enough for your kids activities? As your kids grow up there maybe a need for more speed?

Importantly,go and hold a KP(As someone else suggested).Its not everyones cup of tea,even though it produces lovely images.

The FF has a great reputation( I know a Nikon pro who owned it,then updated to 810,then 850).50K isnt a great amount for your purposes.

Also consider that after the Knew comes,their will be quite a few KPs in reasonable condition coming onto the used market.

Last edited by surfar; 10-06-2020 at 08:14 PM.
10-06-2020, 08:11 PM   #21
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.
I have owned both.

I agree that lenses should be your first consideration.

Maybe your second consideration should be "ergonomics". Having owned both, I greatly preferred the grip, menus, buttons/controls, and overall feel of the Pentax camera. Nikon full frame cameras just seem to have a whole bunch of little irritations that when combined keep me coming back to Pentax.
10-06-2020, 08:13 PM   #22
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QuoteQuote:
if you are considering those 2.... then you should get a lightly use K1.
I was looking for one, but a used K1 is about twice as expensive as used D800. I love Pentax, but I love my wife more.
QuoteQuote:
May I suggest you try to handle both cameras?
I would love to, but there is not a single Pentax available in any of the brick stores in my city. Nikon felt OK. I tried it with the battery grip (that it comes with) and without. Either way is OK. I am not than fussy about ergonomics.
QuoteQuote:
The allure of full frame is strong,
THIS is the only reason why I even consider D800.
QuoteQuote:
but I think it has been conclusively proven by several people on this forum that for most people you really will not be able to see the difference. And one of the true advantages of full frame is that the larger sensor gains about 1 stop in better noise and dynamic range. But in this case that isn't true because the newer sensor in the KP trounces the D800.
Now we are getting somewhere! So, would most agree that there is less than 20% difference between them in perceived resolution, and micro contrast?
QuoteQuote:
Is stabilization important to you?
Yes, this is the biggest plus for K1!
QuoteQuote:
Is the D800 weather sealed? Is that important to you?
Not important.
QuoteQuote:
Is size and weight important to you?
Not really.
QuoteQuote:
Is autofocus critical for you? I don't have experience with D800 but I've read it is great, but I have no idea how it compares to KP.
Yes, very important.
QuoteQuote:
Is flash exposure critical?
Nope, don't use flash.
QuoteQuote:
Is high ISO important to you?
Nope, I tend to stick with ISO200.
QuoteQuote:
Is frames per second important?
Nope.
QuoteQuote:
Do you know the story behind those 50,000 clicks?
This is a big one. I do not know anything about this D800. I just found it at a local used photo store.
QuoteQuote:
That depends on what you mean by IQ. Is IQ the amount of detail your camera captures?
It is details and bokeh. I do not care for high ISO or fps.

---------- Post added 10-06-20 at 08:17 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
As your kids grow up there maybe a need for more speed?
This is indeed a factor, but I assumed D800 would actually be faster than KP.
QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Also consider that after the Knew comes,their will be quite a few KPs in reasonable condition coming onto the used market.
I was thinking the same, but I am afraid the influx of those used KP's won't happen until the end of 2021 at best. I am willing to wait until Christmas, but really itching to get a new camera. Kids are growing every day
10-06-2020, 08:18 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxxoid Quote
I was looking for one, but a used K1 is about twice as expensive as used D800. I love Pentax, but I love my wife more.
Have you seen these deals? (Tell your wife, Christmas is near!)
Pentax K-1 Limited Silver - OPEN BOX - Ricoh
K-1 KIT WITH 28-105mm LENS - OPEN BOX - Ricoh

10-06-2020, 08:27 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by carlb Quote
A newer (and new) camera versus a used camera with 50k + actuations. A no brainer IMO. And you get a Pentax.
This.^^

And the KP is especially good at preserving detail at higher ISO in general, with rare exception in subject matter, as well as having especially good detailed results from its exceptionally good in-camera processor delivering JPEG images right out of the camera. Just be sure to set up "Fine Sharpening" in the Custom Image menus.
10-06-2020, 08:35 PM   #25
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Would you agree that this comparison reflects lack of real life differences in IQ?
Pentax K-1 vs Nikon D800 vs
10-06-2020, 08:40 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxxoid Quote
What I do not appreciate in K110D (besides 6Mp): autofocus (speed, accuracy, and performance in low light), and extremely long file saving time. I loved my film MZ-6 way better.
The KP's design is as close as you'll ever find in a DSLR to that MZ series!! If you like that handling, you'll have no trouble adjusting to the KP. And, it also has a very useful battery grip available you could acquire later to expand gripping surface with large lenses and battery life.

As to lenses, APS-C lenses of similar quality and field-of-view (FOV) are smaller, lighter, and less expensive than lenses for a FF DSLR. In addition, with Pentax offering in-body shake reduction, older Pentax lenses, including those from the MZ era and before, will have that advantage compared with Nikon not having any. For a fast all-around zoom lens, rather than the DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 (which is soon to be replaced, I believe) a very cost-effective alternative is the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM. Very fine imaging, but without the WR of the Pentax. I'm not sure of your location, but since you have an MZ camera instead of a ZX, It seems not in the US so I can't provide a guide as to price.

There is no comparison between your K110D and the KP in any performance aspect! AF, Low light, etc- are far superior with the KP.

And, welcome to the forum!

Last edited by mikesbike; 10-06-2020 at 08:48 PM.
10-06-2020, 08:49 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
The KP's design is as close as you'll ever find in a DSLR to that MZ series!! If you like that handling,
Yes, that was the best ergonomics ever.
QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
rather than the DA* 16-50mm f/2.8
I was thinking of DA 16-85. It is a bit slower, but has longer range and people seem to love it the best among normal zooms.

QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
I'm not sure of your location, but since you have an MZ camera instead of a ZX, It seems not in the US so I can't provide a guide as to price.
I am in Canada. Ideally, I would like to stay within USD800 for the body (USD1000 if I really push it). This Pentax K-1 Limited Silver - OPEN BOX - Ricoh is indeed a fantastic deal, but still 50% over intended budget. The D800 I am talking about is USD640.
10-06-2020, 08:54 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxxoid Quote
Would you agree that this comparison reflects lack of real life differences in IQ?
Pentax K-1 vs Nikon D800 vs
I would first consider what lenses your are looking for. This would be my starting point.
Next I would look at how important AF and more importantly tracking is to you
The Difference inbetween the K1 and the D800 is very minor, if you are a base iso shooter I would look at a used D810 as it can be used at a lower iso giving you a little bit more IQ over the D800/ K1
10-06-2020, 09:06 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxxoid Quote
I was looking for one, but a used K1 is about twice as expensive as used D800. I love Pentax, but I love my wife more.

I would love to, but there is not a single Pentax available in any of the brick stores in my city. Nikon felt OK. I tried it with the battery grip (that it comes with) and without. Either way is OK. I am not than fussy about ergonomics.

THIS is the only reason why I even consider D800.

Now we are getting somewhere! So, would most agree that there is less than 20% difference between them in perceived resolution, and micro contrast?

Yes, this is the biggest plus for K1!

Not important.

Not really.

Yes, very important.

Nope, don't use flash.

Nope, I tend to stick with ISO200.

Nope.

This is a big one. I do not know anything about this D800. I just found it at a local used photo store.

It is details and bokeh. I do not care for high ISO or fps.

---------- Post added 10-06-20 at 08:17 PM ----------


This is indeed a factor, but I assumed D800 would actually be faster than KP.

I was thinking the same, but I am afraid the influx of those used KP's won't happen until the end of 2021 at best. I am willing to wait until Christmas, but really itching to get a new camera. Kids are growing every day
Consider K-1's flexible screen!
10-06-2020, 10:00 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxxoid Quote
Yes, that was the best ergonomics ever.

I was thinking of DA 16-85. It is a bit slower, but has longer range and people seem to love it the best among normal zooms.


I am in Canada. Ideally, I would like to stay within USD800 for the body (USD1000 if I really push it). This Pentax K-1 Limited Silver - OPEN BOX - Ricoh is indeed a fantastic deal, but still 50% over intended budget. The D800 I am talking about is USD640.
I am right across from Canada. Here in the US you can get a new KP for under $800. I bought mine from B&H in silver finish, and it is a beauty. I have found the best way to acquire good stuff in a budget-friendly way is to get one thing at a time. Perhaps there in Canada Amazon might be the best option.

Yes, the DA 16-85mm has a good following. If you don't need the speed, it should do well. And the excellent higher ISO low light capability of the KP will provide more stops of ISO usability to compensate for that lack of aperture. For my all-around zoom, I have long had the DA 18-135mm lens, which is amazingly compact for its zoom range, a very good performer- very useful for times when wanting to avoid lens-changing yet also want quality imaging. Its compactness is a perfect complement for the KP's compact concept. It can even deliver very good quality closeups, even with a background having quite good bokeh! You can see for yourself the capabilities in the lens section of the forum, with threads such as- "DA 18-135mm WR show what it can do". Go to the thread's last page (most recent) first, and go backward. Similar thread for the DA 16-85mm.

But of course, in your case it does not appear you absolutely need to get a lens right away. You could think about that for a while. I also have the higher-end types, including that Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 and since I do quite a lot of low light or high speed work myself, I can say having the f/2.8 available does make a difference, even with the KP's extraordinary ISO capability. I got these two lenses far apart in time. Previously, for my fast zoom lens, I was using my Sigma 24-60mm f/2.8 EX DG, quite good really, and available used at low cost. This is a FF design, but in having 24mm available it still will provide some wide angle for APS-C. So for me, having a fast zoom lens for what the f/2.8 can do, and also having a compact slower lens offering much more zoom range, has given me the tools to address many scenarios. Just as with a FF body, for which both fast f/2.8 zoom lenses are offered in addition to the usual f/3.5-5.6 slower models. I did finally also add the DA 20-40mm f/2.8-4 Limited. Got the silver version. Very compact, fits on the KP like a glove. Very fine imaging, though somewhat limiting in zoom range, yet still very useful when that is all you need, especially for very compact carrying with fine quality!

Two primary goals in designing the KP were to offer a very high quality compact DSLR alternative to the APS-C mirrorless crowd, and also to provide a compact APS-C field model for advanced and pro photographers as an alternative to their K-1 or K-1II FF body when needing to travel lighter while not sacrificing significant quality! We have regular posters here in the forum who have both the K-1 or K-1 II and also the KP, who are quite satisfied with the KP's performance!

Last edited by mikesbike; 10-06-2020 at 10:09 PM.
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