Pentax K-1 II is still market leader in FF sensor dynamic range in 2020

beholder3 · 10-23-2020, 05:41 AM - **8 Likes**

I find it interesting that the fantastic Pentax K-1 II even in 2020 is leading the pack with regards to maximum dynamic range and corresponding detail resolving power.

None of the newer and much more expensive competing cameras like Z7, A7R4 or D850 manage to compete here, even using a ISO 64 setting and much worse on a level exposure playing field at ISO 100.

Look at how no other camera is able to resolve the vertical details of the skirt here:

Image comparison: Digital Photography Review

The Sony with a nominal much higher pixel count only produces moire and mud.

I do hope any successor model doesn't drop this industry gold standard.

gatorguy · 10-23-2020, 05:52 AM - **1 Like**

Wow, that's actually pretty impressive. I have a buddy who just bought the Z7 but I won't mention it to him

texandrews · 10-23-2020, 05:56 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

I find it interesting that the fantastic Pentax K-1 II even in 2020 is leading the pack with regards to maximum dynamic range and corresponding detail resolving power.

None of the newer and much more expensive competing cameras like Z7, A7R4 or D850 manage to compete here, even using a ISO 64 setting and much worse on a level exposure playing field at ISO 100.

Look at how no other camera is able to resolve the vertical details of the skirt here:

Image comparison: Digital Photography Review

The Sony with a nominal much higher pixel count only produces moire and mud.

I do hope any successor model doesn't drop this industry gold standard.

Yeah, we Pentaxians know our cameras are impressive performers. One interesting thing I've noticed over the years is how different cameras can respond to different parts of that test image. I've seen comparisons in which one camera does best in one spot, and another in another. I'm guessing it's lens related.

gatorguy · 10-23-2020, 06:09 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by texandrews

Yeah, we Pentaxians know our cameras are impressive performers. One interesting thing I've noticed over the years is how different cameras can respond to different parts of that test image. I've seen comparisons in which one camera does best in one spot, and another in another. I'm guessing it's lens related.

The Pentax lens used was the HD FA24-70.

The Sony used the FE85 Gold Master which presumably would be a better lens. Ditto for Nikon's test which used their 85 F1.8G prime on both cameras. Why wouldn't they have used the Pentax HD FA85 prime or at least the FA77 rather than a zoom? Oh, I know, that would have been fairer.

Didn't matter, K1 still tested better.

EDIT: For details look under the "i" on the test images.

Last edited by gatorguy; 10-23-2020 at 06:58 AM.

beholder3 · 10-23-2020, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by texandrews

Yeah, we Pentaxians know our cameras are impressive performers. One interesting thing I've noticed over the years is how different cameras can respond to different parts of that test image. I've seen comparisons in which one camera does best in one spot, and another in another. I'm guessing it's lens related.

In the image you can easily see that the Pentax image degrades towards the right hand side. That is either a lens issue or poor alignment of camera/lens to target. On the left side all combos resolve pretty well.

gatorguy · 10-23-2020, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

In the image you can easily see that the Pentax image degrades towards the right hand side. That is either a lens issue or poor alignment of camera/lens to target. On the left side all combos resolve pretty well.

Center resolution is very good on the Pentax lens they used (HD FA24-70), but degrades significantly towards the edges according to the PF lens review.

C_Jones · 10-23-2020, 02:55 PM

i have one, and it is really fantastic.

**mikesbike** · 10-23-2020, 07:23 PM

This is good information. I appreciate its being pointed out. I also noticed the other 3 cameras were oriented for more contrast, which of course would simultaneously reduce DR. The K-1 II is certainly holding its own high ranking. It has only been a bit over 2 years since its appearance, with its performance to still being first-rate, so I don't see why it will not continue to be highly-regarded for quite some time to come. That is a short time in terms of FF bodies.

**Rondec** · 10-24-2020, 03:22 AM

Unfortunate, really that this is the case. It isn't that there haven't been sensor improvements, it is just that those improvements have only added more megapixels, faster read frame rates and better video while the still image quality remains fairly static. There is still plenty of room for improvement on a K-1 II sequel, but I'm afraid that single still shot dynamic range and high iso performance likely won't be much different from the K-1 and K-1 II.

totsmuyco · 10-24-2020, 09:53 PM

Pentax image quality is excellent. No question about it. Other brands just won't accept it.

lesmore49 · 10-24-2020, 11:01 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by gatorguy

Wow, that's actually pretty impressive. I have a buddy who just bought the Z7 but I won't mention it to him

Sure you will,

Let us know his response.

**luftfluss** · 10-25-2020, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by gatorguy

The Pentax lens used was the HD FA24-70.

The Sony used the FE85 Gold Master which presumably would be a better lens. Ditto for Nikon's test which used their 85 F1.8G prime on both cameras. Why wouldn't they have used the Pentax HD FA85 prime or at least the FA77 rather than a zoom? Oh, I know, that would have been fairer.

The DFA* 85/1.4 was released 2 years after DPR reviewed the K-1 II.

gatorguy · 10-26-2020, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

The DFA* 85/1.4 was released 2 years after DPR reviewed the K-1 II.

Thanks Luftluss, that makes sense then. When was the FA77 released?

bdery · 10-26-2020, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by gatorguy

Thanks Luftluss, that makes sense then. When was the FA77 released?

Some 15 years before.

LeeRunge · 10-26-2020, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Unfortunate, really that this is the case. It isn't that there haven't been sensor improvements, it is just that those improvements have only added more megapixels, faster read frame rates and better video while the still image quality remains fairly static. There is still plenty of room for improvement on a K-1 II sequel, but I'm afraid that single still shot dynamic range and high iso performance likely won't be much different from the K-1 and K-1 II.

Yes ^

It feels like sensor performance hit the limits of physics and they went for more megapixels or adding BSI for a tiny bit more high iso performance (usually at expense of DR).

I looked at the comparison's with K-1 and initially thought it was worse in the compare tool. Then I downloaded both RAW and JPEG and it's just that Pentax doesn't do JPEG processing as well IMO. The RAWS look great. This is the same thing that happens with my K-3 which is why I almost exclusively use it in RAW.

Taking everything in perspective ALL of these cameras have great performance though for the sensors as well as they're all pretty close in DR and ISO now. For me personally it's not purely the sensor that's going to sell the camera, it's the ergonomics of the camera body, the lense options, autofocus performance etc that is more important than minute differences in the sensor when zoomed in at the pixel level and then overexposed in post to see differences.

I'm much more excited to see something like Apple's ProRAW (combined RAW's) in the iPhone making it to FF cameras in the future and then we actually see a huge jump in RAW performance in DR because we'll get the cherry-picked data of a dozen RAW's into one great image to work with. If that ever happens, I hope it does.

10-23-2020, 05:41 AM - 8 Likes	#1
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Pentax K-1 II is still market leader in FF sensor dynamic range in 2020 I find it interesting that the fantastic Pentax K-1 II even in 2020 is leading the pack with regards to maximum dynamic range and corresponding detail resolving power. None of the newer and much more expensive competing cameras like Z7, A7R4 or D850 manage to compete here, even using a ISO 64 setting and much worse on a level exposure playing field at ISO 100. Look at how no other camera is able to resolve the vertical details of the skirt here: Image comparison: Digital Photography Review The Sony with a nominal much higher pixel count only produces moire and mud. I do hope any successor model doesn't drop this industry gold standard.

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10-23-2020, 05:52 AM - 1 Like	#2
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,094	Wow, that's actually pretty impressive. I have a buddy who just bought the Z7 but I won't mention it to him

10-23-2020, 05:56 AM	#3
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by beholder3 I find it interesting that the fantastic Pentax K-1 II even in 2020 is leading the pack with regards to maximum dynamic range and corresponding detail resolving power. None of the newer and much more expensive competing cameras like Z7, A7R4 or D850 manage to compete here, even using a ISO 64 setting and much worse on a level exposure playing field at ISO 100. Look at how no other camera is able to resolve the vertical details of the skirt here: Image comparison: Digital Photography Review The Sony with a nominal much higher pixel count only produces moire and mud. I do hope any successor model doesn't drop this industry gold standard. Yeah, we Pentaxians know our cameras are impressive performers. One interesting thing I've noticed over the years is how different cameras can respond to different parts of that test image. I've seen comparisons in which one camera does best in one spot, and another in another. I'm guessing it's lens related.

10-23-2020, 06:09 AM - 1 Like	#4
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,094	Originally posted by texandrews Yeah, we Pentaxians know our cameras are impressive performers. One interesting thing I've noticed over the years is how different cameras can respond to different parts of that test image. I've seen comparisons in which one camera does best in one spot, and another in another. I'm guessing it's lens related. The Pentax lens used was the HD FA24-70. The Sony used the FE85 Gold Master which presumably would be a better lens. Ditto for Nikon's test which used their 85 F1.8G prime on both cameras. Why wouldn't they have used the Pentax HD FA85 prime or at least the FA77 rather than a zoom? Oh, I know, that would have been fairer. Didn't matter, K1 still tested better. EDIT: For details look under the "i" on the test images. Last edited by gatorguy; 10-23-2020 at 06:58 AM.

10-23-2020, 06:19 AM	#5
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112 Original Poster	Originally posted by texandrews Yeah, we Pentaxians know our cameras are impressive performers. One interesting thing I've noticed over the years is how different cameras can respond to different parts of that test image. I've seen comparisons in which one camera does best in one spot, and another in another. I'm guessing it's lens related. In the image you can easily see that the Pentax image degrades towards the right hand side. That is either a lens issue or poor alignment of camera/lens to target. On the left side all combos resolve pretty well.

10-23-2020, 06:30 AM	#6
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,094	Originally posted by beholder3 In the image you can easily see that the Pentax image degrades towards the right hand side. That is either a lens issue or poor alignment of camera/lens to target. On the left side all combos resolve pretty well. Center resolution is very good on the Pentax lens they used (HD FA24-70), but degrades significantly towards the edges according to the PF lens review.

10-23-2020, 02:55 PM	#7
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084	i have one, and it is really fantastic.

10-23-2020, 07:23 PM	#8
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,562	This is good information. I appreciate its being pointed out. I also noticed the other 3 cameras were oriented for more contrast, which of course would simultaneously reduce DR. The K-1 II is certainly holding its own high ranking. It has only been a bit over 2 years since its appearance, with its performance to still being first-rate, so I don't see why it will not continue to be highly-regarded for quite some time to come. That is a short time in terms of FF bodies.

10-24-2020, 03:22 AM	#9
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Unfortunate, really that this is the case. It isn't that there haven't been sensor improvements, it is just that those improvements have only added more megapixels, faster read frame rates and better video while the still image quality remains fairly static. There is still plenty of room for improvement on a K-1 II sequel, but I'm afraid that single still shot dynamic range and high iso performance likely won't be much different from the K-1 and K-1 II.

10-24-2020, 09:53 PM	#10
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Pentax image quality is excellent. No question about it. Other brands just won't accept it.

10-24-2020, 11:01 PM - 1 Like	#11
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,350	Originally posted by gatorguy Wow, that's actually pretty impressive. I have a buddy who just bought the Z7 but I won't mention it to him Sure you will, Let us know his response.

10-25-2020, 09:41 PM	#12
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,627	Originally posted by gatorguy The Pentax lens used was the HD FA24-70. The Sony used the FE85 Gold Master which presumably would be a better lens. Ditto for Nikon's test which used their 85 F1.8G prime on both cameras. Why wouldn't they have used the Pentax HD FA85 prime or at least the FA77 rather than a zoom? Oh, I know, that would have been fairer. The DFA* 85/1.4 was released 2 years after DPR reviewed the K-1 II.

10-26-2020, 03:28 AM	#13
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,094	Originally posted by luftfluss The DFA* 85/1.4 was released 2 years after DPR reviewed the K-1 II. Thanks Luftluss, that makes sense then. When was the FA77 released?

10-26-2020, 05:22 AM	#14
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,362	Originally posted by gatorguy Thanks Luftluss, that makes sense then. When was the FA77 released? Some 15 years before.

10-26-2020, 07:20 AM	#15
LeeRunge Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 996	Originally posted by Rondec Unfortunate, really that this is the case. It isn't that there haven't been sensor improvements, it is just that those improvements have only added more megapixels, faster read frame rates and better video while the still image quality remains fairly static. There is still plenty of room for improvement on a K-1 II sequel, but I'm afraid that single still shot dynamic range and high iso performance likely won't be much different from the K-1 and K-1 II. Yes ^ It feels like sensor performance hit the limits of physics and they went for more megapixels or adding BSI for a tiny bit more high iso performance (usually at expense of DR). I looked at the comparison's with K-1 and initially thought it was worse in the compare tool. Then I downloaded both RAW and JPEG and it's just that Pentax doesn't do JPEG processing as well IMO. The RAWS look great. This is the same thing that happens with my K-3 which is why I almost exclusively use it in RAW. Taking everything in perspective ALL of these cameras have great performance though for the sensors as well as they're all pretty close in DR and ISO now. For me personally it's not purely the sensor that's going to sell the camera, it's the ergonomics of the camera body, the lense options, autofocus performance etc that is more important than minute differences in the sensor when zoomed in at the pixel level and then overexposed in post to see differences. I'm much more excited to see something like Apple's ProRAW (combined RAW's) in the iPhone making it to FF cameras in the future and then we actually see a huge jump in RAW performance in DR because we'll get the cherry-picked data of a dozen RAW's into one great image to work with. If that ever happens, I hope it does.