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12-30-2020, 08:13 PM   #1
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Hyper Program vs TAv

Happy Healthy New Year.
I was wondering about the difference between HP with Auto ISO and TAV modes. Why would one use one instead of the other, any scenarios where one is preferable?

12-30-2020, 09:40 PM   #2
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I've never investigated HP on my KP (sounds like a bad rap!)so I'm not sure exactly how that works.Plus I use back button focus and had to disable the green button as I found I often hit it by mistake.

I exclusively use TAv mode.That way I set the sweet spot for the lens I'm using,generally f8,dial in the minimum shutter speed for handheld shots,then check the ISO.

If the ISO is within tolerable limits,I fire away.Underexposed/too high ISO, I'll open up the lens. Overexposed-I'll bump up the shutter speed.That's just how I've adapted my shooting to account for the exposure triangle,YMMV.

Last edited by timb64; 12-30-2020 at 09:49 PM.
12-30-2020, 10:56 PM - 1 Like   #3
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With TAv you control both shutter speed and aperture and camera control ISO.
With HP you control one of shutter speed and aperture and camera control the other one. With auto ISO the camera also control ISO.

It is a matter of how much control you want and what you can let the camera control.
More control is sometimes an advantage when you know exactly what settings you need, but too much manual control can be an disadvantage if speed is a priority. The camera is much faster in conpensating if light conditions change.

My most used mode is Av with or without auto-SO. It works well in most situations.
In more critical situations I may use TAv or full manual.
12-30-2020, 11:46 PM - 3 Likes   #4
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You may have a look here where it is explained by Ricoh

The PENTAX Hyper Control system: A quick, effortless way to find the optimum exposure settings / explore | RICOH IMAGING

12-30-2020, 11:52 PM   #5
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What Fogel70 said. If you are not very experienced, P mode is an excellent starting point. Eventually, you may find you want to control both aperture and shutter speed, and let the iso take care of itself, in which case TAv is the go. But it requires more decision making from the operator. I used P almost exclusively for several years, but swapped to TAv when trying to avoid shutter shake on the K1. It is now second nature, and I use it for most of my shooting.
12-31-2020, 01:22 AM - 2 Likes   #6
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I don't care about ISO because I know on my camera where is the ISO limit I'm comfortable with so I've set it not to go above that limit. I also don't print large my images and therefore staying at the lowest ISO possible it's not a priority for me.

On the aperture and shutter speed I'm very much interested in so I want full control over these 2 settings. By having in control these 2 settings, I can keep under control ISO also once it's set to Auto ISO. Therefore, Manual mode with Auto ISO enabled (TAv mode) it's my to go option in 99% of the cases because I also have available in this mode the Exposure compensation feature which I use quite a lot.
12-31-2020, 01:30 AM   #7
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I’ve tried the P mode, didn’t work well with my routine. TAv is my go -to, 9/10 times. I know the shutter speed range I need, set a pleasing ISO range and just play with depth of field.

12-31-2020, 02:16 AM   #8
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Happy New Year
You also have MTF Priority (see page 50 manual) which works with all AF lenses beginning with the FA-Series.
See:
Program Line at MTF Priority. - PentaxForums.com

Last edited by photogem; 12-31-2020 at 02:24 AM.
12-31-2020, 04:27 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
With TAv you control both shutter speed and aperture and camera control ISO.
With HP you control one of shutter speed and aperture and camera control the other one. With auto ISO the camera also control ISO.

It is a matter of how much control you want and what you can let the camera control.
More control is sometimes an advantage when you know exactly what settings you need, but too much manual control can be an disadvantage if speed is a priority. The camera is much faster in conpensating if light conditions change.

My most used mode is Av with or without auto-SO. It works well in most situations.
In more critical situations I may use TAv or full manual.
I have been using Av, too. Then I started using TAv, because it seemed more convenient when I was trying to freeze my 18 month old Then I started using M because it seemed easier to reshot when I had missed the shot but nailed the exposure. I think it is easier than trying to lock exposure or use compensation. Oh well, too many options is a "bad" thing sometimes.
To be honest, I have almost never used P mode, and was wondering if it is worth giving it a try.
12-31-2020, 05:05 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by nskan Quote
I have been using Av, too. Then I started using TAv, because it seemed more convenient when I was trying to freeze my 18 month old Then I started using M because it seemed easier to reshot when I had missed the shot but nailed the exposure. I think it is easier than trying to lock exposure or use compensation. Oh well, too many options is a "bad" thing sometimes.
To be honest, I have almost never used P mode, and was wondering if it is worth giving it a try.
I went to Hyper P (mode + dials) after years of Av and TAv. All have uses, but I find Hyper P advantageous for my conditions as I live in an often rather dark clime--Newfoundland--that also gets extremely bright in winter with sea, ice, and snow. Plus a lot of trails vary from deep, quite dark woods (especially now with the sun so low) to open brilliant tundra/ocean. Finally I'm constantly going from close shots, say shrooms, to landscape shots all the time as offerings on the trails or on the water change.These all require vastly different settings which are easy to access several ways with the various P/Av/TAv modes, but I have come to find it easier in Hyper P. Set the camera in P. Now if you use the shutter speed dial only and you're automagically in Tv. Use the aperature dial only and you're now in Av. Use both and now you're in TAv. Use the green button and you're suddenly back in pure P. TONS of flexibility once you see what the creators were at. (Took me a while, actually. Years. Never did figure it while I owned a K-50.)


While confusing at first, I appreciate now that there are multiple ways to get to the same end.

K-70/KP bodies at present.

Last edited by jgnfld; 12-31-2020 at 05:27 PM.
12-31-2020, 05:14 PM   #11
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When in P mode... won't the camera adjust the other "2 settings" based on the program line?... ie for a operator set apperture.... "running man" is action so fast shutter and higher iso over "normal"setting?.... I aways thought of P mode as .... rotate apperture wheel and camera is effectively in Av..... rotate front wheel and camera switches to Tv mode etc.
12-31-2020, 09:12 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by nskan Quote
Happy Healthy New Year.
I was wondering about the difference between HP with Auto ISO and TAV modes. Why would one use one instead of the other, any scenarios where one is preferable?
Welcome to the forum! Which mode or sets of modes you prefer depends on the conditions you are facing and your interests and goals you have in mind.

With the Av mode, you control the aperture, while the camera sets the shutter speed. This mode was the first ever type of automatic exposure available to SLR cameras, or perhaps any cameras. When I started into photography, the Manual mode with the ISO (ASA) also being self-set, was the only mode. These days, the most obvious reason for choosing the Av mode is being primarily interested in controlling depth-of-field (DOF), meaning how much or little of the rest of the scene behind and in front of your main subject will appear in sharp focus.

With the Tv mode, the most obvious reason for choosing it would be in dealing with moving or action subjects, to freeze that action or to establish some degree of blur to indicate motion. In both cases, if you have the ISO set on "Auto", the camera will set that as well as part of the automation, but in my opinion including this in either case here would intrude upon the control of the factors being sought after.

When choosing the Manual mode, this is when you wish control over both action and DOF, and also when you want an exposure to remain the same based on the main subject of interest, even when moving the camera to follow a subject as that subject moves past changing backgrounds. However, if you want to control both DOF and shutter speed for a subject in a stationary situation, but lighting conditions keep changing, then the TAV mode will allow you to do this, while the camera will change the ISO value to compensate exposure for the changing circumstances. So it it is like having the control offered by the Manual mode as to shutter speed and aperture, but with automation that is needed for some circumstances.

The P mode can be a very convenient option for general shooting. It allows for concentrating on composing, framing and shooting. Especially when lighting can change suddenly, as in passing clouds, or just changing your camera position which can change the lighting on and behind subjects. It allows more flexibility than the Av or Tv modes, so you will not be likely to run into compromised situations where shutter speed drops too low, or aperture too wide, as the lighting or background changes. I use this quite often in the way I operate. I usually like to set my ISO value, according to the overall circumstances, but if one also chooses auto-ISO over a given range, this will allow even broader scope for the P mode- say as the daylight is getting dimmer, the camera will then boost ISO also.

But you can also go into menus to adjust the program line. If you are dealing with a lot of activity under these changing conditions, etc. you can bias for action, so there is a tendency for higher shutter speeds, or if wishing a generally greater DOF, you can bias for smaller apertures (higher numbers). If doing this, just remember to change back to normal afterwards.

With Pentax alone, however, they recognized that there can be a quick change in needs. Suddenly, one might need to get control of shutter speed or of aperture. So they came up with the Pentax Hyper System, allowing just that when using the P mode- you can switch into Tv or into Av operation immediately (Hyper Program) by just using the thumb or finger dial to select your preference, without having to reset your mode dial first. Then just hit the green button to return to full P operation. In Manual mode, you can just use the green button to set a meter-centered exposure immediately (Hyper Manual) without having to do the usual time-consuming twirling of thumb and finger dials while watching the meter indicator to get the exposure on target. Then make any needed change of either shutter speed or aperture from there, but if you first hit the AE-L button to lock that exposure value, as you dial the change you are making in either, the other will follow along to preserve the exposure! Very fast and efficient. Great when spot-metering around various parts of a scene. This is the fastest, most efficient operational system out there. Dpreview tested the Pentax K10D and found this system years ago, deeming it "brilliant".

But it was not new, in fact going way back to the Pentax PZ-1 film camera of the mid 1990's. In the late 1990's, I acquired the upgraded PZ-1p, and became acquainted with this system for the first time. Unlike these days, it came with a very good owner's manual. I have used this feature ever since, too many times to count, with various Pentax camera models. Getting the shot at just the right moment is often the most important factor, so then time is a big issue. I remember, after having the PZ-1p for quite some time, Pentax ran a $100 off rebate sale on their Limited prime lenses. I bought the FA 43mm and the FA 77mm Ltd's. I had them along on a hike with a young friend through a woods and down a long slope to a beach. I had the 77mm on camera, and was licking my chops at getting my first shot ever with that lens, and that it would be a portrait. Handily, we came to a large, flat area of a wooden staircase system half-way down that slope, still in the woods. Sunny, with high thin clouds, lighting was excellent, but of course changing as we walked among the trees, so I had the camera on "P" mode. I said to my young friend, "Hey, let me get a picture of you", so he stopped and I walked ahead on the flat area. I turned and raised the camera for an upper-half portrait, ready to execute Hyper control as needed. His body and expression were relaxed and natural with a characteristic smile, and as I looked through the VF I saw the shutter speed was plentiful and aperture at f/4.5, about right with that FL to render the somewhat distant background somewhat blurred so he stood out from it, but still recognizable since it was woodsy and scenic. So I fired the shot instantly. Just one shot and we were on our way. My first shot with the fabulous FA 77mm!! The prints came back, and I was very pleased. I gave him several copies for his family. etc... and the reaction was special, because the result was special, indeed! He was delighted. They all said it was the best photo ever taken of him, including his graduation studio photos! Had the aperture been less than ideal, I could have changed it instantly with HP and got that shot anyway. If you have to fiddle with a camera, your subject's body language and expression often then becomes more posed and no longer as natural.

A Happy New Year to you too, and to all- may it be far better than 2020!!

Last edited by mikesbike; 12-31-2020 at 10:05 PM.
12-31-2020, 09:38 PM   #13
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OT. TAv is native to Pentax and I use it a lot when I shoot action shots. I also use it when taking low light shots inside museums so I can still have raw files as I shoot Raw + JPEG. Other brands would have to go manual mode and set the ISO to auto to come up with the same function as TAv. I'm just curious, are the results of TAv vs manual mode with auto ISO of other brands the same? I know Pentax can't go to auto ISO in manual mode.

Last edited by totsmuyco; 12-31-2020 at 09:59 PM.
12-31-2020, 10:29 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by nskan Quote
I was wondering about the difference between HP with Auto ISO and TAV modes.
With HP + auto-ISO you can have fine control of aperture or shutter speed, just not both at the same time, with sensitivity ramping according a mystic algorithm.

With TAv mode you have full control of both aperture and shutter speed with sensitivity ramping in EV increments according to changes you make to aperture and shutter speed. Because of that last, TAv is not truly M mode with auto-ISO (no mystic algorithm), though the upper limits for auto-ISO still apply.

As for applicability of each? I can't remember using either in the almost seven years I have owned my K-3. Hyper Manual on the other hand is both useful and cool.

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/explore/technic/002/#part2


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 12-31-2020 at 10:35 PM.
01-01-2021, 05:50 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
When in P mode... won't the camera adjust the other "2 settings" based on the program line?... ie for a operator set apperture.... "running man" is action so fast shutter and higher iso over "normal"setting?.... I aways thought of P mode as .... rotate apperture wheel and camera is effectively in Av..... rotate front wheel and camera switches to Tv mode etc.
You can also adjust both though I am not entirely sure how the algorithm in Hyper P adjusting both relates to Hyper M adjusting both. (The AE-lock button settings factor in here too, I think.) I haven't explored fully enough deeper issues. I would say as a first shot to study the logic behind Hyper P until it makes sense and becomes 2nd nature. From there even more flexibility is possible with M and Hyper M, but Hyper P's a brilliant system in itself, I've come to find, for my purposes.

Basically, I shoot in Newfoundland--certainly now with COVID it's ALL Newfoundland :-( --under conditions which range from foggy dim subarctic ocean, rockscapes, tundrascapes, and woodscapes plus flora and fauna to these same subjects in brilliant sunshine and snow. Basically environmental issues lead to huge dynamic range, contrast, and sensitivity issues for the photog that exist here that don't in many other common photo environments. Photogs in England, Ireland, and Scotland's northerly areas have these same issues, of course. Japan and many other polar and subpolar maritime environments (e.g. Hokkaido, Aleutians, southern Chile, etc, etc). Hyper P is a godsend as far as I concerned under such conditions!

Partially off topic: Plus Pentax weather sealing is a godsend as well and has come in very handy on many occasions on back country trails. To date while I've destroyed 2 PLMs and 1 K-70 in falls/slips on rocks, trails and docks over the years, I've had zero H2O ingress events ever with a Pentax (fondling rabbit's food while knocking on wood, here). That said it is dim sunshine filtering down through thick low-hanging clouds, with snow (on ground and in air), sleet, and rain right now. That will change to bright sunlight as the little microfront moves by. [Added 2 hours later: Bright sun on melting snow now!] Terrible contrast, terrible color, poor lighting. Quite normal shooting conditions :-) . I--perhaps a bit snobbily/arrogantly (!)--find 95% of the pics in the "bad weather/good pics" thread often a bit boring examples of my normal days with an emphasis just on being out there taking "a" picture, not "the" picture of something you're trying to record and to communicate seeing which Hyper P helps me with, personally! (but that's snobby, as I said.)

Last edited by jgnfld; 01-01-2021 at 08:15 AM.
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