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03-08-2021, 02:16 AM - 1 Like   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biff Quote
I may be way off in saying this, but it seems to me with the popular body and functionality of the KP it would make sense just to update it as the KP II, a camera many know and love, and it would still be well below price and specs of the flagship. Doesn't Fujifilm do something similar? The KP has a lot going for it.
Don't forget KP was "hated" when out in 2017 if I am not mistaken. Everyone was waiting for a K3ii successor and had more in mind than KP was bringing at that time. I honestly admit I was part of these negative ppl criticizing battery life, lack of a second memory slot etc
Then in 2019, due to a slow start, pentax heavily started discounting KP which faster adoption rate. I bought my black one for 2019 summer holidays and I noticed in these forums that many customers did the same over last 2 years, taking advantage of offers in the 700-800 USD region. Large number of these clients, including myself, are so satisfied with their KP that they dont have K3iii in mind anymore...
I come from k-x and K5ii and KP is a net improvement and fulfills all my current needs on top of a likeable design. I would hesitate to buy a 2000 USD K3iii with high specs, but would gladly put at least half of that for a KPii.

My understanding of all of this now is that Pentax messed up with initial KP pricing and this "K3ii successor" storytelling. Would it have been introduced at 999USD and selling in the 700-800 early in its lifecycle, this very capable body could have been a tremendous success for Pentax...

03-08-2021, 02:25 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by fsge Quote
Don't forget KP was "hated" when out in 2017 if I am not mistaken
Interesting comment. You only have to look at the now closed thread on the K3iii to see the amount of negativity new models generate, yet I am sure that the K3iii will be just brilliant.
To me though the KP looks how I would want a DSLR to look and when my K10d died I became a KP nut! If the K3iii was out late last year when I was in the market, I may have chosen that but still love the KP. Only regret was maybe not going for the silver one.
03-08-2021, 03:00 AM - 1 Like   #123
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The KP is such a beautiful camera. I like the retro look. We don't know why Ricoh discontinued the KP. I'm just assuming things and I think it has to do with the effects of COVID on the company's production budget that they have to focus their funds on the K-3III to make it successful. I'm also looking at the competition between both models as the KP's price is going down, people might choose this camera over the K-3III. After all, the KP's performance is excellent.
03-08-2021, 09:14 AM - 1 Like   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biff Quote
I may be way off in saying this, but it seems to me with the popular body and functionality of the KP it would make sense just to update it as the KP II, a camera many know and love, and it would still be well below price and specs of the flagship.....The KP has a lot going for it.
Not way off at all, but there is plenty in Pentax camera land that makes little sense.

QuoteOriginally posted by JensE Quote
I'm afraid the price point for a new KP II would have to be significantly above the current KP prices.....
There is no reason why an updated KP should cost much more than around 1000. They have done something similar before with the K-5 II and K-3 II. Those who can afford only that sort of price aren't going to affect the sales of the APS-C flagship costing twice as much, and those who can afford the flagship will buy it anyway, and might also buy a new KP II as a backup.

Is there any sense in Pentax 'marketing'?(!) All we're given is the semi-religious gobbledegook of their photography 'Principles', plus their esoteric videos - as is plain to see, just stalling tactics. And do they actually do any market research to find out the features their users really enjoy about Pentax DSLRs?

So far the Pentax Sales Dept have been lucky that none of their actions has caused the permanent injury or death of the brand. It seems that someone there has had yet another idea: "Our KP has become a success and a classic camera - I know, let's close its production line." If it's not soon replaced, let's hope that they don't come to regret that decision.

Philip

P.S. By the way, Pentax is the only brand I own and I love my APS-C DSLRs and lenses. Fortunately they include the wonderful KP, which many others will not now be able to obtain.

03-08-2021, 10:50 AM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevejo Quote
Therein lies the problem I think. The K3iii has to be successful. Even if the KP is a great camera (which it is of course), anyone looking for a new APSc Pentax will have to choose between the K70 and the K3iii. Retaining the KP will necessarily reduce sales of the K3iii so better to kill it off now. Retaining the K70 makes sense as it caters for people who just can't stretch to the K3iii. I am sure that a potential KP replacement may be considered down the line, once the K3iii has had a good run.

I don't think you can fault the sales strategy.
Yeah, I had similar thoughts, but kind of was hoping the KP would become the new K70, but maybe its feature set and price point is too close to the K3 III, although I'm not so sure.

For me a second KP may make sense more than the K3 III. I still have a lot to learn about the KP's capabilities. . . not to mention photography in general.

---------- Post added 03-08-21 at 09:54 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MrB1 Quote
here is no reason why an updated KP should cost much more than around 1000. They have done something similar before with the K-5 II and K-3 II. Those who can afford only that sort of price aren't going to affect the sales of the APS-C flagship costing twice as much, and those who can afford the flagship will buy it anyway, and might also buy a new KP II as a backup.
QuoteOriginally posted by MrB1 Quote
There is no reason why an updated KP should cost much more than around 1000. They have done something similar before with the K-5 II and K-3 II. Those who can afford only that sort of price aren't going to affect the sales of the APS-C flagship costing twice as much, and those who can afford the flagship will buy it anyway, and might also buy a new KP II as a backup.
Agree. And with the KP they hit on something really unique, that both stood out and performed. Wish they'd keep it while still creating a super flagship.
03-09-2021, 05:14 PM - 4 Likes   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrB1 Quote
There is no reason why an updated KP should cost much more than around 1000. They have done something similar before with the K-5 II and K-3 II.
That line of thinking is why Olympus are now out of business and Nikon's getting there, Philip!

You have to take in more money than you spend, and the entire camera market has been rocked by society shooting with its phones instead of buying a separate camera.

There can't be a 'high volume, low margin' strategy like Canon and Nikon used to do.

Whoever still wants to be in the camera business, like Ricoh, needs to release very few products at very high prices.

It's low volume, high margin. There isn't a middle ground because the capitulation of the market is incredible and still going on.

Some people thought I was crazy for saying that the new K-3 III would be nothing at release like the $1200 of the K-3 and K-3 II, that it would be so expensive you might as well buy the K-1 for the cash.

I think Ricoh's marketing financial experts understand this very well, it's why they're in those jobs and not you or I.

Pre-covid, they were the only camera company to make more money than the year before. They understand good profits are to be made selling industrial cameras like the Thetas to companies and GR IIIs to rich boys. It's a good portfolio. Only they have APS-C, FF and medium format offerings out of all the companies. They'll continue that as long as it doesn't cost money.
03-09-2021, 07:42 PM - 1 Like   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
That line of thinking is why Olympus are now out of business and Nikon's getting there, Philip!

You have to take in more money than you spend, and the entire camera market has been rocked by society shooting with its phones instead of buying a separate camera.

There can't be a 'high volume, low margin' strategy like Canon and Nikon used to do.

Whoever still wants to be in the camera business, like Ricoh, needs to release very few products at very high prices.

It's low volume, high margin. There isn't a middle ground because the capitulation of the market is incredible and still going on.

Some people thought I was crazy for saying that the new K-3 III would be nothing at release like the $1200 of the K-3 and K-3 II, that it would be so expensive you might as well buy the K-1 for the cash.

I think Ricoh's marketing financial experts understand this very well, it's why they're in those jobs and not you or I.

Pre-covid, they were the only camera company to make more money than the year before. They understand good profits are to be made selling industrial cameras like the Thetas to companies and GR IIIs to rich boys. It's a good portfolio. Only they have APS-C, FF and medium format offerings out of all the companies. They'll continue that as long as it doesn't cost money.
Thats one reason I think they should go with the "only 2 Aps-c dslr" route. Low end is pretty much a dead segment now/fighting against cellphones (both new & used).

I'd say they should beef up the K70 replacement a bit & price it ~$850.

The K3III will (probably) be priced ~$1400 when released.
03-09-2021, 08:27 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
The K3III will (probably) be priced ~$1400 when released.
In YOUR dreams!

03-09-2021, 09:23 PM - 2 Likes   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
Thats one reason I think they should go with the "only 2 Aps-c dslr" route. Low end is pretty much a dead segment now/fighting against cellphones (both new & used)
I really don't know what will happen when the K-70 clears from warehouses. It wouldn't surprise me if they have no true entry level model replacement. Perhaps a flippy screen, videocentric version based on the K-3 III internals.

And that's the way to think, a camera company doesn't want marketshare (who wants to own 70% of a sinking ship?) they want their revenues to be higher than their expenditures, a basic thing the various companies have failed to do, and covid just made the situation worse.

Reissuing the Limiteds with HD coatings instead of truly redesigning them with lens motors, WR, etc can be understood as an excellent cost effective strategy for the corporation. They paid off their design and tooling years ago, there's plenty of profit in each one that sells.

Last edited by clackers; 03-09-2021 at 09:29 PM.
03-09-2021, 09:51 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
The K3III will (probably) be priced ~$1400 when released.
Ricoh has already indicated the price will be greater than that. When current APS-C king Fuji X-T4 was released last year it was USD $1700, so it stands to reason the K-3 III will be at least that much.
03-09-2021, 11:33 PM - 2 Likes   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
that it would be so expensive you might as well buy the K-1 for the cash.
Which is exactly what I did, as it's serving well with the fine FF lenses I already have in addition to its kit lens, and it is armed with features the K-3 III has omitted.

The APS-C mirrorless crowd, and it has become a crowd, has sucked away the APS-C ILC market. I tend to agree that the discontinuance of the KP is to give the K-3 III a better chance, so Ricoh Pentax does not compete against itself. However, what they may discover is, the K-3 III is a narrower niche interest for those fully engaged in the idea of OVF use, and its advancement in this regard further underscores this interest, for which it will be admired. Its promise of being superior for fast action shooting is also a draw for many potential buyers. So it has its own set of advantages. However, with its size, and at nearly 30 oz. weight, it clearly will not and cannot be an alternate choice for those shopping along the mirrorless APS-C road. Obviously, those shoppers would not even give the K-3 III a glance. So while Pentax is so concerned about not competing against itself, which I think is a misplaced concern, they are at the same time giving up the only DSLR product concept they brilliantly came up with that can draw and has drawn attention away from APS-C mirrorless, while simultaneously including the OVF alternative.

Last edited by mikesbike; 03-11-2021 at 03:50 AM.
03-10-2021, 07:01 AM   #132
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I would like to think there's room for a pair of APS-C Pentax cameras on the market at the same time; the less expensive one that is interesting in some way or another, and then the pro-ish body above that one in price and features and such. I think that's what they're going to and there will be something between the current KP and K-70 models that will replace both.
03-10-2021, 02:10 PM   #133
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A lot of "shoulda" and "oughta" going on here. Remember the words of the sage (Dusty Springfield) ...
Wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin'
Plannin' and dreamin' each night of his charms
That won't get you into his arms



The unvarnished facts:
- The KP was discontinued because Ricoh don't want to fall into the "Canon trap" and "confuse the market". The specs of the KP were considered to be too close to those of the K-3iii. (So forget about another APS-C camera with specs similar to or higher than the KP.)
- Nothing has been said about the K-70 or any successor to it.
- Ricoh have said that the official price of the K-3iii will be in the "upper two hundred thousand yen" range. That is, north of $US2000. (Street price is another matter.)

Last edited by Des; 03-10-2021 at 04:54 PM.
03-10-2021, 04:08 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
The APS-C mirrorless crowd, and it has become a crowd, has sucked away the APS-C ILC market.
There isn't a crowd, Mike. There's not much interest by Sony, Sigma, Panasonic, Canon or Nikon in APS-C mirrorless.

I think they know Fuji probably runs at a loss in that market, similar to medium format, and don't want to bring that on themselves.

It's a turnaround, because as a format, cheaper APS-C cameras like Rebels used to power the high volume market until it got wiped out.
03-10-2021, 04:20 PM - 1 Like   #135
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hard facts of photography ( and life )

we can hope

we can not control

once you learn that

the less stress you will have

boy do I wish I could follow my own advice
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