[-=JoN=-]

I like the results my non-Pentax lenses give me. he'll a lot of prints have been requested of some of my work by friends and family, and non-pentax lenses have been used.

as long as who ever I showed the photo's to like the results (or whoever the were intended for), then i'm even happier with them.

Pentax glass is good, but I would NOT discount Sigma, or the other 3rd parties. they offer good glass themselves

[roscot]

Micheal,
While I happen to agree with you on your major points, I disagree totally with your conclusions and advise.

Point 1: I agree, super zooms are not as good as shorter range zooms, and I too would recommend a 2 lens solution. However, that being said, they do have their place in someones bag, as long as the photographer is aware of their limitations.

Point 2: I also agree that Pentax, in general, makes better quality glass than 3rd party makers. BUT, There is some very fine 3rd party lenses out there and also have a place in a photographers bag.

I have a need for fast zooms in my photography. I would love to own a FA*80-200 f2.8. At the going rates of over US$2500 for a good example, it is out of my price range. So what do I do? Forget it and do without? No. I bought a Sigma 70-200 EX APO f2.8. Is it as good as the FA*? No it is not - not much is, but it is a damn good lens.

I also have need of a normal fast zoom. Again, I'd love a FA* 28-70 f2.8, but, at USD$1500 plus, no way. The new DA*s do not have the zoom range I want (unfortunately), so I bought a Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di (It's due Monday). Is this lens as good as the FA*? No it is not, but again, it is a really good lens and will serve it's purpose very well.


To the OP:
The 2 super zooms you mention suffer from considerable barrel distortion at the wide end, and pin cushion distortion at the tele end. They are also pretty soft at wide apertures. They are also very slow at the tele end. As long as you are aware of these limitations, and can use them within their parameters, they will work OK.

In general, I look to Pentax lenses first. I do happen to think that most Pentax glass are best of class - Just stay away from the FAJ series. If you can't find what you want in Pentax glass, then look to 3rd party makers. You do need to be careful. Like all lens makers, there is really good glass, and real dogs. Just ask here about anything you are interested in, there is a wealth of knowledge on this board.

I would recommend the 2 Pentax lenses in your case. The DA18-55 is not a bad lens, although it also suffers barrel distortion at the wide end, and will vignette below 20mm. A good, but somewhat more expensive alternative is the DA 16-45 F4.0, a very fine lens.

Although I don't own the The DA50-200, from what I've read and seen, this is a really well designed consumer level tele zoom. Small, light weight, minimal distortions, and very sharp. A very good choise.

Hope this helps a bit.

[RiceHigh]

No Text, No Text.

RH,

about your post, don't continue fueling it by flaming back. A simple "Thank-you, point taken" would do it.

[SupremeMoFo]

And, no offence, but given that English is obviously not your first language you might miss out on intended context which is often what determines whether something is going to be argued with or not.

[Rak]

Ricehigh, you're getting very close to earning yourself a ban.

[SpecialK]

Pentax can make better glass.... ... Whether they put these elements in a Pentax lens is another problem.

Not even to mention original makers....should be more accurate...

As you can see, I can easily make up the conclusions...

Yes, you make up conclusions. I've concluded I'm glad I've undone my notifications so I don't get these types of posts in my inbox.

[RiceHigh]

Ricehigh, you're getting very close to earning yourself a ban.

Rak, what do you mean here? What's your point?

[Adam]

Ricehigh, you're getting very close to earning yourself a ban.

I have to hand it to RiceHigh in this part of the thread- he's obviously not broken any rules through that post. Although controversial replies may have come up earlier, remember what I said about a simple "okay" reply? I think it's working

[nosnoop]

Another factor to consider:

3rd party megazooms may not work well with SR.

Megazooms such as Sigma 18-200mm does not have constant focal length through its focusing range, especially in its telephoto range. So what you see is this: at infinity, and you zoom in to the maximum, you get 200mm. Then when you change the focus to focus on something closer, the effective focal length is getting less and less (even if you maintain the max zoom in zoom position). And the discrepancy is quite significant.

So this would give problem to SR, which still thinks your lens is at 200mm focal length. This could result in SR over-compensation and result in less than ideal SR performance as reported by some users at dpreview.

[RiceHigh]

Not really, any Pentax fully compatible zooms have micro contacts in the zoom ring and the focusing rings (something in brush form which is electrically conductable) to indicate the current focal and focusing distance approximately.

So, there should be no problem as long as the zoom lenses are fully compatible according to Pentax's specifications and design. Nonetheless, I have encountered some incompatible issues with my Sigma lenses on Pentax DSLRs, or even teh MZ cameras, that's why I said in a few posts eariler that 3rd party lenses do not have the total compatibility as original makers' do.

Another factor to consider:

3rd party megazooms may not work well with SR.

Megazooms such as Sigma 18-200mm does not have constant focal length through its focusing range, especially in its telephoto range. So what you see is this: at infinity, and you zoom in to the maximum, you get 200mm. Then when you change the focus to focus on something closer, the effective focal length is getting less and less (even if you maintain the max zoom in zoom position). And the discrepancy is quite significant.

So this would give problem to SR, which still thinks your lens is at 200mm focal length. This could result in SR over-compensation and result in less than ideal SR performance as reported by some users at dpreview.

[egarrard]

I guess that's your problem

No, he just over-generalized. "ALL third-party lenses sucK!" Wrong.

In his mind, the Sigma is a horrid lens just because of it's configuration. After looking at the galleries below, I think it comes down to individual lenses. Check the pics out and decide for yourself if the Sigma is so bad:

Cuba Photo Gallery by Joost Bossuyt at pbase.com
Rome and Vatican City Photo Gallery by Joost Bossuyt at pbase.com
Normandie and Saint-Malo Photo Gallery by Joost Bossuyt at pbase.com

One plus with going with the Sigma for a newbie is having to change the lens less often, and so, having to clean dust off the sensor less often too.

But Rice does have one good point. If you want the absolute best image quality, forego zooms completely, from any manufacturer. Just buy the full set of Limited primes, a couple of longer FA* primes and be happy!

[nosnoop]

Not really, any Pentax fully compatible zooms have micro contacts in the zoom ring and the focusing rings (something in brush form which is electrically conductable) to indicate the current focal and focusing distance approximately.

And that's the problem. The focal length as received by the camera through electrical contacts corresponds the the zoom ring position. And this focal length info is only accurate at infinity, but becomes increasingly inaccurate as you reduce the focusing distance (with no change in zoom ring position). So the camera has no way of knowing this discrepancy.

[slip]

No, he just over-generalized. "ALL third-party lenses sucK!" Wrong.

In his mind, the Sigma is a horrid lens just because of it's configuration. After looking at the galleries below, I think it comes down to individual lenses. Check the pics out and decide for yourself if the Sigma is so bad:

Cuba Photo Gallery by Joost Bossuyt at pbase.com
Rome and Vatican City Photo Gallery by Joost Bossuyt at pbase.com
Normandie and Saint-Malo Photo Gallery by Joost Bossuyt at pbase.com

One plus with going with the Sigma for a newbie is having to change the lens less often, and so, having to clean dust off the sensor less often too.

But Rice does have one good point. If you want the absolute best image quality, forego zooms completely, from any manufacturer. Just buy the full set of Limited primes, a couple of longer FA* primes and be happy!

what I would like to see is someone take a photo of the same scene with several different lenses (same camera of course) and let people guess which is which. not some stupid label like on DPreview, but a "real" shot with some detail and bokeh like a flower or something like that.
then maybe then people could judge solely on image quality and not be bias toward a certain brand or letters attached to the lens name.
I ownly own one lens or I would try it myself and post it.
it would be real interesting if people could tell the difference between EXACTLY the same shot, exposure, etc from a prime lens and a zoom.
Of course all the shots would have to be a decent size so we could make a more informed judgement, but at the same time not get to far into pixel peeping.

cheers

randy

[-=JoN=-]

what I would like to see is someone take a photo of the same scene with several different lenses (same camera of course) and let people guess which is which. not some stupid label like on DPreview, but a "real" shot with some detail and bokeh like a flower or something like that.
then maybe then people could judge solely on image quality and not be bias toward a certain brand or letters attached to the lens name.
I ownly own one lens or I would try it myself and post it.
it would be real interesting if people could tell the difference between EXACTLY the same shot, exposure, etc from a prime lens and a zoom.
Of course all the shots would have to be a decent size so we could make a more informed judgement, but at the same time not get to far into pixel peeping.

cheers

randy

been meaning to do that, but just never got around to doing it. problem is, it's hard to lug gear around and such. one day i'll do a test shoot w/ flowers or outdoors stuff, but for now...check the slr lens section..i got something i put together in like 30 minutes. very very rudimentary...

[walter]

I would go for the first kit, with the intention of replacing the 18-55 at some point in the future when I had a better idea of what lenses I wanted. I would keep the 50-200 unless I shot a lot in that range -- In that case, I'd replace it with something faster. I'd also pick up a 50 f/1.4 for low light or wait for the new 55 f/1.4.

I'm not a fan of the superzooms (though the nikon one looks ok). If you do go that route, read up on them a bit so you know what focal length / aperture combinations work well.

Here's some more info on the Sigma and Tamron
Sigma Lens: Zooms - Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC (Tested)
Tamron Lens: Zooms - Tamron 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II LD Aspherical IF AF (Tested)

based on a very brief look, I'd get the sigma over the tamron, but I'm pretty sure the Pentax lenses will perform significantly better than either of them at most focal length / aperture settings. <-- ignore this (edit)