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04-22-2021, 05:58 PM - 2 Likes   #46
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NEW Wasabi Power BTR-DLI90-JWP pack test results

I am very, very excited to present to you the test results for the brand new Wasabi D-LI90 clone battery pack I obtained for comparison to the rebuilt packs!

As you can see, multiple performance characteristics of the new pack are worse than the first two rebuilt packs:

the new Wasabi pack...
  • ...came delivered nearly fully charged (not good for battery health in storage)
  • ...had higher self-discharge (based on resting voltage) compared to the rebuilt packs
  • ...had significantly less capacity than the rebuilt packs
  • ...revealed to have less than 62% of it's rated (labeled capacity) of 2300mAh
  • ...had greater instantaneous voltage drop at the beginning of the test vs rebuilt packs, and...
  • ...had significantly steeper voltage decline near the end of discharge than the rebuilt packs

I find the steep voltage decline near the end of the discharge cycle and the greater voltage drop at the beginning of the discharge cycle especially noteworthy because, you see, the testing current of between roughly 400mAh and 540mAh falls between the expected standby current of a camera ("switched on" e.g. 300mAh for the K10D) and the current required to perform any function with the camera such as operating the rear LCD (600mAh for the K10D), driving the autofocus motor (2800mAh in the K10D), etc. This is a "conservative" testing current, meaning that performing any function with the camera near the point where the discharge curve starts to fall steeply in the chart below will likely draw the voltage below the 6.0v level forcing the camera to shut down. In other words, the new Wasabi pack is more sensitive (less voltage-resilient) to high current demand, than the rebuilt packs using the same cells in the OEM Pentax D-LI90 pack. Because of this, I believe that performance of the Wasabi pack in practical use will be even worse than test results suggest. I reference the K10D because I don't have these specification for a more recent camera. Please let me know if you have a source!

Pentax K10D - selected battery consumption current specifications:
FunctionWith LensWith SD cardbattery 7.5vbattery 8.3vAC Power supply DC 8.3v
3 Main SW/ON (Meter OFF)YY300mA300mA320mA
4 Main SW/ON (Meter ON)YY540mA500mA540mA
5 Charging Flash (Meter ON) *Y  2,100mA2,200mA2,200mA
6 Driving AF motor *Y  2,800mA2,800mA2,800mA
8 Releasing Shutter *YY3,600mA3,600mA3,600mA
9 Recording the image after releaseYY600mA620mA650mA
10 BulbYY1,400mA1,400mA1,400mA
11 Displaying menu (LCD)Y  600mA600mA600mA
12 Displaying menu (Video output)Y  500mA500mA500mA
13 Displaying playback imageYY600mA600mA600mA
14 Recording payback image in the cardYY620mA620mA620mA
*5,6 and 7 [sic] are peak value averages and others are normal average

Wow! I expected some weak results from the new Wasabi pack, but honestly not this bad. If anyone wants to send me some more new Wasabi packs to verify these results, I will happily test them and send them back to to you.

CriteriaValue
Rebuild attemptNA (new pack)
Old pack #NA
Fresh replacement cell voltage (new)NA
New cells soldered into seriesNA
Charger usedPentax D-BC90
Pack external terminals prior to charging7.82v (new from box)
Pack external terminals after a few minutes on chargerNA
Pack external terminals freshly charged8.35v
Pack external terminals 24hr self discharge8.30v
Pack external terminals 48hr self discharge8.29v
Discharge cutoff voltage6.0v
Discharge load15 ohm
Initial discharge current528 mA (roughly 0.25C)
final discharge current399 mA (roughly 0.2C)
Initial voltage drop under load-0.38v (7.91v)
total discharge time H:MM2:58
Measured capacity1415 mAh
Pack external terminals resting voltage after test6.58v


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Last edited by jon.partsch; 04-22-2021 at 10:13 PM.
04-22-2021, 09:15 PM - 1 Like   #47
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Great stuff. I wish I had the skills to do this kind of thing.
04-23-2021, 06:14 AM   #48
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I have 5 of these cheap test boards Jon.






As you can see I hae mounted them up and set up to charge 18650's (tp4056 pcb's) as well.

I actually ordered zbl.. ones like yours because of a youtube video suggesting they are better, but received these HW-586's instead. When I queried this the seller (out in China of course) simply replied "they're the same". They probably are, pretty much. One thing to bear in mind is the attachment of the micro usb socket is dubious - I have already had one start coming off and losing connectivity.. I have used a dab of JB weld to reinforce, but main thing is there are a couple of solder pads underneath that are + and - power connect.
The main issue with these is acccuracy. The 2 on the L that I first bought seem pretty spot on. The 3 I acquired recently I have just been doing a test cycle with 3 new cells - tested (average 2950mAH) samsung 3000mAh. While results between the 3 boards were pretty consistent, the actual numbers were 10% down on expected. average 2657mAh, highest 2723, lowest 2582.


Any particualr reason you've doubled up the resistors in series? Most people parallel them to go quicker, but I have wondered if that might be inherently less accurate.


Your result with the wasabi looks like a fairly typical outcome for an item that probably has merely decent at best generic chinese cells in.

Last edited by marcusBMG; 04-23-2021 at 06:20 AM.
04-23-2021, 12:52 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by marcusBMG Quote
I have 5 of these cheap test boards Jon.

As you can see I hae mounted them up and set up to charge 18650's (tp4056 pcb's) as well.

I actually ordered zbl.. ones like yours because of a youtube video suggesting they are better, but received these HW-586's instead. When I queried this the seller (out in China of course) simply replied "they're the same". They probably are, pretty much. One thing to bear in mind is the attachment of the micro usb socket is dubious - I have already had one start coming off and losing connectivity.. I have used a dab of JB weld to reinforce, but main thing is there are a couple of solder pads underneath that are + and - power connect.
The main issue with these is acccuracy. The 2 on the L that I first bought seem pretty spot on. The 3 I acquired recently I have just been doing a test cycle with 3 new cells - tested (average 2950mAH) samsung 3000mAh. While results between the 3 boards were pretty consistent, the actual numbers were 10% down on expected. average 2657mAh, highest 2723, lowest 2582.

Any particualr reason you've doubled up the resistors in series? Most people parallel them to go quicker, but I have wondered if that might be inherently less accurate.

Your result with the wasabi looks like a fairly typical outcome for an item that probably has merely decent at best generic chinese cells in
I have responses to all this!

It's funny, because I ordered HW-586 and received ZBL, which it great, because I now understand that it is supposedly better. I am aware of the micro USB socket weakness, so I try to leave the cable attached, and when I remove or install it, I apply a bit of pressure with my thumb in the opposite direction of the plug's push/pull force to protect the socket.

The reason why I am using the resistors in series is because I am testing two 4.2v cells in series and the resistors are only rated for 5 watts - using one alone or, even worse, two in parallel would exceed this rating*. Therefore, using these in series is the only possibility for this voltage. Furthermore, the discharge current of between 540mAh and 400mAh seems appropriate for estimating capacity when used in a camera, as I mentioned above. Using one alone would create an initial current of around 1080mAh, which exceeds the current draw of metering, or recording data to SD card, or operating the rear LCD constantly until the battery is depleted. This is probably not a good approximation of real-world conditions in camera. Furthermore, using the two resistors in parallel would create a current around 2160mAh, which is similar to the current draw of charging the capacitor for the pop-up flash constantly until the battery is depleted - even less reflective of conditions in real-world use.

*If you are experiencing performance (accuracy) differences between the two groups of testers in your photo, and the group on the left is set up to drain two cells in parallel using a single 5 watt 7.5 ohm resistor, then I believe your set-up may be the cause of the discrepancy in readings, not the testing boards.

~ Jon

....PS - @photogem has this photo of these same testing units in an album: Picture 1 of 1 from Album LV - OV - darkframe K30

I don't see that they have posted this in any forum thread, but you can see that it looks like photogem is using three of these 5 watt 7.5 ohm resistors in series for battery testing, not just two in series like I am using. I wonder why this is.


Last edited by jon.partsch; 04-23-2021 at 12:59 PM.
04-24-2021, 09:25 AM   #50
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That makes good sense.
As far as testing 18650 cells, within spec is the first point. Pretty much most Li IOn cells can handle a few A.

I have only connected the usb power supply in parallel. Each pcb is testing just the one cell. I am going to separate the connection to see if there is a difference, because previously those 2 pcb's were testing pretty accurately.
06-25-2021, 01:31 PM   #51
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@jon.partsch; I was wondering if you had seen photogem's review of the Wasabi D-Li90 replacement. Did you find that the temperature contact was backed by a simple resister rather than a temperature sensor?

Wasabi D-LI90 Replacement reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database


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06-25-2021, 07:59 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by jon.partsch Quote
TL;DR

Will upgrading the cells in a dead Wasabi Power D-LI90 clone battery pack increase performance and lifespan???

Also, admin please move this to appropriate forum if this is not it.

Last year, I obtained an exactingly complete K1-ii kit with multiple lenses from a fellow forum member and dove head-first into FF shooting. The kit came with the original Pentax D-LI90 battery as well as four Wasabi Power clones. The clones initially held a small charge, but now are completely dead. The Pentax battery is going strong. I opened one of the Wasabi Power packs to discover that it contains two completely unlabeled 18500 lithium cells. Now, it is widely believed that these packs, even when new, don't yeild as many shots as the OEM packs, despite being labeled to have a higher capacity (2300 mAh vs. 1860 mAh for the OEM packs).

I've already gone ahead and ordered name-brand (Panasonic) 18500 cells to replace the unlabeled cells in the dead Wasabi packs. I understand that the OEM packs also use Panasonic cells. I could have purchased four new Wasabi packs for the same price as the Panasonic 18500 cells I ordered, but I am hoping that replacing the cells in the old packs will yield better performance and overall lifespan than new Wasabi packs. Am I barking up the wrong tree here? I guess the question is this: is the lower quality of the Wasabi packs vs OEM packs due to the cells they use or due to the other internal electronics. If it is the former, than I am sure my efforts will be worth it. If it is the latter than I am wasting a lot of effort and should have just bought new Wasabi packs.

~ Jon

Results are summarized here, below, for your convenience. There is, of course, more detail and discussion in the thread. In addition to the info in this thread, here are some other great PentaxForums threads on rebuilding battery packs and testing battery packs....

Rebuilding:
Rebuilding a pentax D-Li90 battery - PentaxForums.com

Testing and comparing:
Some Pentax D-LI90 Battery Charge/Discharge Measurements - PentaxForums.com
Capacity measurements of some 3rd party batteries - PentaxForums.com

Understanding the camera's battery meter:
The Pentax Battery Level Meter -- What it actually shows - PentaxForums.com

Attachment 529542

Battery pack rebuild #1 : Thread comment 36
Battery pack rebuild #2 : Thread comment 42
Battery pack rebuild #3 :
Battery pack rebuild #4 :
Bonus - new Wasabi pack test for comparison : Thread comment 46

TESTING RESULTS SUMMARY:

Rebuild attempt1234*NEW* Wasabi BTR-DLI90-JWP
Old pack #32  NA
Old pack brand and modelWasabi Power, BTR-DLI90-JWPWasabi Power, BTR-DLI90-JWP  NA
New cells brand and modelPanasonic, NCR18500APanasonic, NCR18500A  NA
Fresh replacement cell voltage (new)3.51v, 3.51v3.51v, 3.51v  NA
New cells soldered into series7.01v7.02v  NA
Charger usedPentax D-BC90Pentax D-BC90  Pentax D-BC90
Pack external terminals prior to charging0.10v0.00v  7.82v (new from box)
Pack external terminals after a few minutes on charger7.12v7.14v  NA
Pack external terminals freshly charged8.38v8.36v  8.35v
Pack external terminals 24hr self discharge8.33v8.33v  8.30v
Pack external terminals 48hr self discharge8.32v8.32v  8.29v
Discharge cutoff voltage6.0v6.0v  6.0v
Discharge load15 ohm15 ohm  15 ohm
Initial discharge current544 mA (roughly 0.25C)540 mA (roughly 0.25C)  528 mA (roughly 0.25C)
Initial voltage drop under load-0.20v (8.12v)-0.24v (8.08v)  -0.38v (7.91v)
Measured capacity1919 mAh1942 mAh  1415 mAh
Pack external terminals resting voltage after test6.65v6.59v  6.58v
My thought on this subject is, "Why spend time and money on obtaining and replacing cells in the battery case?" To me it would be faster and easier (and maybe less cost) to simply purchase new Pentax batteries for the camera.

06-26-2021, 10:30 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Photos-by-Chas Quote
My thought on this subject is, "Why spend time and money on obtaining and replacing cells in the battery case?" To me it would be faster and easier (and maybe less cost) to simply purchase new Pentax batteries for the camera.
LOL. The cost of a new Pentax battery is like $50-$60. The cost of replacing the cells is $8.

Also, the point is obviously not that this is faster or easier than buying a battery pack, and I doubt anyone thinks that.
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