 |
 | 12 Likes | Search this Thread |
| 04-22-2021, 05:58 PM - 2 Likes | #46 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| NEW Wasabi Power BTR-DLI90-JWP pack test results
I am very, very excited to present to you the test results for the brand new Wasabi D-LI90 clone battery pack I obtained for comparison to the rebuilt packs! As you can see, multiple performance characteristics of the new pack are worse than the first two rebuilt packs: the new Wasabi pack...
I find the steep voltage decline near the end of the discharge cycle and the greater voltage drop at the beginning of the discharge cycle especially noteworthy because, you see, the testing current of between roughly 400mAh and 540mAh falls between the expected standby current of a camera ("switched on" e.g. 300mAh for the K10D) and the current required to perform any function with the camera such as operating the rear LCD (600mAh for the K10D), driving the autofocus motor (2800mAh in the K10D), etc. This is a "conservative" testing current, meaning that performing any function with the camera near the point where the discharge curve starts to fall steeply in the chart below will likely draw the voltage below the 6.0v level forcing the camera to shut down. In other words, the new Wasabi pack is more sensitive (less voltage-resilient) to high current demand, than the rebuilt packs using the same cells in the OEM Pentax D-LI90 pack. Because of this, I believe that performance of the Wasabi pack in practical use will be even worse than test results suggest. I reference the K10D because I don't have these specification for a more recent camera. Please let me know if you have a source! Pentax K10D - selected battery consumption current specifications:
Wow! I expected some weak results from the new Wasabi pack, but honestly not this bad. If anyone wants to send me some more new Wasabi packs to verify these results, I will happily test them and send them back to to you.
  Last edited by jon.partsch; 04-22-2021 at 10:13 PM. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 04-23-2021, 06:14 AM | #48 |
|
I have 5 of these cheap test boards Jon.   As you can see I hae mounted them up and set up to charge 18650's (tp4056 pcb's) as well. I actually ordered zbl.. ones like yours because of a youtube video suggesting they are better, but received these HW-586's instead. When I queried this the seller (out in China of course) simply replied "they're the same". They probably are, pretty much. One thing to bear in mind is the attachment of the micro usb socket is dubious - I have already had one start coming off and losing connectivity.. I have used a dab of JB weld to reinforce, but main thing is there are a couple of solder pads underneath that are + and - power connect. The main issue with these is acccuracy. The 2 on the L that I first bought seem pretty spot on. The 3 I acquired recently I have just been doing a test cycle with 3 new cells - tested (average 2950mAH) samsung 3000mAh. While results between the 3 boards were pretty consistent, the actual numbers were 10% down on expected. average 2657mAh, highest 2723, lowest 2582. Any particualr reason you've doubled up the resistors in series? Most people parallel them to go quicker, but I have wondered if that might be inherently less accurate. Your result with the wasabi looks like a fairly typical outcome for an item that probably has merely decent at best generic chinese cells in. Last edited by marcusBMG; 04-23-2021 at 06:20 AM. | |
| 04-23-2021, 12:52 PM | #49 |
 Originally posted by marcusBMG  I have 5 of these cheap test boards Jon. As you can see I hae mounted them up and set up to charge 18650's (tp4056 pcb's) as well. I actually ordered zbl.. ones like yours because of a youtube video suggesting they are better, but received these HW-586's instead. When I queried this the seller (out in China of course) simply replied "they're the same". They probably are, pretty much. One thing to bear in mind is the attachment of the micro usb socket is dubious - I have already had one start coming off and losing connectivity.. I have used a dab of JB weld to reinforce, but main thing is there are a couple of solder pads underneath that are + and - power connect. The main issue with these is acccuracy. The 2 on the L that I first bought seem pretty spot on. The 3 I acquired recently I have just been doing a test cycle with 3 new cells - tested (average 2950mAH) samsung 3000mAh. While results between the 3 boards were pretty consistent, the actual numbers were 10% down on expected. average 2657mAh, highest 2723, lowest 2582. Any particualr reason you've doubled up the resistors in series? Most people parallel them to go quicker, but I have wondered if that might be inherently less accurate. Your result with the wasabi looks like a fairly typical outcome for an item that probably has merely decent at best generic chinese cells in It's funny, because I ordered HW-586 and received ZBL, which it great, because I now understand that it is supposedly better. I am aware of the micro USB socket weakness, so I try to leave the cable attached, and when I remove or install it, I apply a bit of pressure with my thumb in the opposite direction of the plug's push/pull force to protect the socket. The reason why I am using the resistors in series is because I am testing two 4.2v cells in series and the resistors are only rated for 5 watts - using one alone or, even worse, two in parallel would exceed this rating*. Therefore, using these in series is the only possibility for this voltage. Furthermore, the discharge current of between 540mAh and 400mAh seems appropriate for estimating capacity when used in a camera, as I mentioned above. Using one alone would create an initial current of around 1080mAh, which exceeds the current draw of metering, or recording data to SD card, or operating the rear LCD constantly until the battery is depleted. This is probably not a good approximation of real-world conditions in camera. Furthermore, using the two resistors in parallel would create a current around 2160mAh, which is similar to the current draw of charging the capacitor for the pop-up flash constantly until the battery is depleted - even less reflective of conditions in real-world use. *If you are experiencing performance (accuracy) differences between the two groups of testers in your photo, and the group on the left is set up to drain two cells in parallel using a single 5 watt 7.5 ohm resistor, then I believe your set-up may be the cause of the discrepancy in readings, not the testing boards. ~ Jon ....PS - @photogem has this photo of these same testing units in an album: Picture 1 of 1 from Album LV - OV - darkframe K30 I don't see that they have posted this in any forum thread, but you can see that it looks like photogem is using three of these 5 watt 7.5 ohm resistors in series for battery testing, not just two in series like I am using. I wonder why this is. Last edited by jon.partsch; 04-23-2021 at 12:59 PM. | |
| 04-24-2021, 09:25 AM | #50 |
| 06-25-2021, 01:31 PM | #51 |
| 06-25-2021, 07:59 PM | #52 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Originally posted by jon.partsch TL;DR Will upgrading the cells in a dead Wasabi Power D-LI90 clone battery pack increase performance and lifespan??? Also, admin please move this to appropriate forum if this is not it. Last year, I obtained an exactingly complete K1-ii kit with multiple lenses from a fellow forum member and dove head-first into FF shooting. The kit came with the original Pentax D-LI90 battery as well as four Wasabi Power clones. The clones initially held a small charge, but now are completely dead. The Pentax battery is going strong. I opened one of the Wasabi Power packs to discover that it contains two completely unlabeled 18500 lithium cells. Now, it is widely believed that these packs, even when new, don't yeild as many shots as the OEM packs, despite being labeled to have a higher capacity (2300 mAh vs. 1860 mAh for the OEM packs). I've already gone ahead and ordered name-brand (Panasonic) 18500 cells to replace the unlabeled cells in the dead Wasabi packs. I understand that the OEM packs also use Panasonic cells. I could have purchased four new Wasabi packs for the same price as the Panasonic 18500 cells I ordered, but I am hoping that replacing the cells in the old packs will yield better performance and overall lifespan than new Wasabi packs. Am I barking up the wrong tree here? I guess the question is this: is the lower quality of the Wasabi packs vs OEM packs due to the cells they use or due to the other internal electronics. If it is the former, than I am sure my efforts will be worth it. If it is the latter than I am wasting a lot of effort and should have just bought new Wasabi packs. ~ Jon Results are summarized here, below, for your convenience. There is, of course, more detail and discussion in the thread. In addition to the info in this thread, here are some other great PentaxForums threads on rebuilding battery packs and testing battery packs.... Rebuilding: Rebuilding a pentax D-Li90 battery - PentaxForums.com Testing and comparing: Some Pentax D-LI90 Battery Charge/Discharge Measurements - PentaxForums.com Capacity measurements of some 3rd party batteries - PentaxForums.com Understanding the camera's battery meter: The Pentax Battery Level Meter -- What it actually shows - PentaxForums.com Attachment 529542 Battery pack rebuild #1 : Thread comment 36 Battery pack rebuild #2 : Thread comment 42 Battery pack rebuild #3 : Battery pack rebuild #4 : Bonus - new Wasabi pack test for comparison : Thread comment 46 TESTING RESULTS SUMMARY:
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 06-26-2021, 10:30 AM | #53 |
| Originally posted by Photos-by-Chas My thought on this subject is, "Why spend time and money on obtaining and replacing cells in the battery case?" To me it would be faster and easier (and maybe less cost) to simply purchase new Pentax batteries for the camera. Also, the point is obviously not that this is faster or easier than buying a battery pack, and I doubt anyone thinks that. | |
| 01-11-2022, 07:23 AM | #55 |
| Originally posted by photogem It is neither recommended to buy 3-rd party clones nor rebuilding them. Reason read my review of the Wasabi's here: Wasabi D-LI90 Replacement reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database The Clone chargers miss the 3rd and quite important contact. Wasabi and other clone D-LI90's as well as D-LI109's cheat the original charger using resistors which pretent (through their impedance similar to the temperature sensor) to be temperatur sensors. Based on UL certification combined with the huge number of third party batteries used without incident, it is not rational to be overly concerned about a safety difference versus OEM. | |
| 11-07-2022, 11:48 AM | #56 |
| Originally posted by rogerstg There is some inherent danger to all lithium batteries, hence limitations on shipping and air transportation. Still, it is very rare. Fortunately, UL certification is necessary for chargers/batteries sold in the United States and Canada. Primarily, the UL is concerned with the electrical safety of the product. I suspect there are other design differences that mitigate the perceived weaknesses. For example, the conclusion about the lack of third contact being a "cheat" and safety concern may simply be part of design differences necessitated by patents and not a nefarious safety weakness. My experience with businesses that import electrical devices from/sold in Japan is that, quite often, significant design changes are needed for the items to meet stringent UL requirements. Based on UL certification combined with the huge number of third party batteries used without incident, it is not rational to be overly concerned about a safety difference versus OEM. They have the meaningless CE certification.  And you know this due to answer #22 in this post! Google "Wasabi + UL Certification" and you will find ZERO results! So.... I think you should rewrite your review of the Wasabi D-LI90 clone and correct the wrong information about UL certification. But I guess you won't. Last edited by photogem; 11-07-2022 at 11:14 PM. | |
| 11-07-2022, 12:36 PM - 1 Like | #57 |
| Originally posted by rogerstg Based on UL certification combined with the huge number of third party batteries used without incident, it is not rational to be overly concerned about a safety difference versus OEM. Lithium-ion battery fires: Exploding battery fires the new home fire menace | The West Australian https://www.ionenergy.co/resources/blogs/battery-safety/ Based on that logic lets save some money and sell cars without seatbelts and air bags. After all, I was never in a car crash, so why do I need seat belts and air bags? The short sightedness of people never ceases to amaze me. Losing your house or your life must be worth the risk to some people. I mean, you saved 30USD on a battery, right? Quote from the Ionenergy site: "In addition to manufacturing defects, using low-quality components is one of the highest causes of battery failures. Increasing competition is driving the prices of batteries down, causing battery manufacturers to cut corners where they shouldn’t. By skimping on poor quality electronics like the battery management system, the risk of battery failure increases. The battery management system is critical to battery safety and performance. It protects the battery pack from operating outside of its safe operating area. As batteries form a high-value component of an electric vehicle or energy storage system, it’s essential to invest in a smart battery management system that can detect cell failures immediately and prevent the battery from exploding." I do find it irresponsible that anyone would recommend buying a battery that has no safety features what soever and could be made of flammable materials. Do whatever you want. But don't cry about any issues later. Last edited by R.Miller; 11-07-2022 at 02:05 PM. | |
| 11-08-2022, 01:38 PM | #58 |
| Originally posted by R.Miller Really? Lithium-ion battery fires: Exploding battery fires the new home fire menace | The West Australian https://www.ionenergy.co/resources/blogs/battery-safety/ Based on that logic lets save some money and sell cars without seatbelts and air bags. After all, I was never in a car crash, so why do I need seat belts and air bags? The short sightedness of people never ceases to amaze me. Critical thinking is not for everyone. | |
| 11-09-2022, 01:18 AM | #59 |
| Originally posted by rogerstg Those are not a rational conclusions for a number of reasons, not the least of which are failure to understand statistical significance (4 deaths out of 335,549,250 people) and ignorance of context (SIZE of the batteries that caused issues) FWIW, click bait is known for preying on the gullible. Critical thinking is not for everyone. You claim that the Wasabis have UL-Certification which they don't and you know that by now_ Critical thinking alone won't help! Critical investigation, i.e. opening a Wasabi and checking it as I did. They have the common (Chinese) cheat-resistor and their chargers only Plus and Minus connection. But you know, the name Wasabi already says a lot: Real Wasabi is Japanese only (at least early Wasabi batteries used Japanese cells, but that's history) Fake Wasabi is horseradish + green colour! Real Wasabi is expensive (for a reason) Fake Wasabi is a cheat So Wasabi batteries = Fake = cheating the customer So no, they don't meet UL and by now you should know that. Critical thinking then applied would need correction of your wrong claims in your review of the Wasabi D-LI90 clone. If you don't correct it, then you "intentionally" mislead people! Fake facts! Here a photo of the OEM Pentax D-LI90 as sold in USA:  The UL-sign is clearly visible. Not so on the Wasabi-clone: Just the CE sign, which is meaningless in USA because CE is for Europe, there are no testers in USA to check. In the EU, CE has a different meaning but Pentax OEM batteries have now also the PSE certification which is according to the Japanese DENAN = to fullfill the Japanese "Electrical Appliance and Material Safety Act" and even stricter than UL. So your "selfimposed critical thinking" reminds me of Harry Belafonte's "but there is a hole in the bucket", the outcome including the straw is at least funny.... the tight hold onto the illusion of a straw. As Heinrich Hertz and Ludwig Boltzmann argued (following an earlier proof by Leibnitz, Maupertius, Klein und Hankel in pure theory): Any equation that is to have any empiricalapplication ("outcome with result") has to yield a result other than zero (0). Your "Wasabi = UL certified" = zero (0). It has no empirical value and thinking based on wrong facts = 0+0+0+0=0 Last edited by photogem; 11-09-2022 at 01:48 AM. | |
|
| Bookmarks |
| Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it! |
| batteries, battery, behaviour, body, camera, capacity, cells, clones, cutoff, dslr, lithium, load, oem, pack, packs, panasonic, pcb, pentax, photography, power, quality, rebuilding, test, voltage, vs, wasabi, wasabi battery pack |
Post #46 by jon.partsch 
Similar Threads | ||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| For Sale - Sold: Pentax DBG-4 grip with Wasabi Rapid Travel Charger and 2 Wasabi D-LI 90 Batteries | loveisageless | Sold Items | 1 | 04-21-2014 02:56 PM |
| For Sale - Sold: Original Q with 01 lens, Wasabi battery kit, Q to PK lens adapter | ryan s | Sold Items | 10 | 02-18-2014 12:35 AM |
| For Sale - Sold: PENTAX TR Power Pack 3 battery pack for flash | djrocks66 | Sold Items | 3 | 08-11-2013 08:11 AM |
| Battery Pack M disassembly/rebuild? | Mike | Pentax Camera and Field Accessories | 6 | 07-24-2009 04:23 AM |
