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04-06-2021, 08:04 AM - 6 Likes   #1
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Are cameras getting too boring = sophisticated?

Why do some people get so excited that at each release, cameras get more sophisticated? Does anyone else actually feel a little negative about it?

Unless you enjoy driving cars hard and fast, which in the UK we can't, the increased levels in technologies are there just to make us safer and as a testing ground for fully automated vehicles. Most cars now deliver what is essentially required of them. But, why so the excitement in ever "improving" camera technologies? The natural direction is that soon AI and faultless AF and exposures etc., will render the blob of organic material holding the camera to be all but irrelevant. Camera technologies just make what used to be a difficult task that much easier.

Clearly camera manufacturers have to promote the new wizardry to stay in business - I understand that. So it's inevitable that this continued technological "progress" will soon remove much of the pleasure from the photographic experience for*some (many?).

A related aside: In my youth I used to fish. Recently I had a present for a fly fishing weekend. The waters were so carefully managed and stocked, that even complete beginners were soon catching fish. I got bored and took myself off behind the scenes (into the private areas). There I found pens of trout, all at different stages of development, being feed so they grew rapidly. When they were "ready" they were released into the ponds, where the artificial feeding ceased and much of the water appeared to be deficient in any natural food. Not surprisingly the fish were hungry and took flies that fell on the water like bricks. Very sad. But, most customers seemed to be very satisfied with their weekend's fishing experience. All set-up for guaranteed success.

I don't usually take photos of birds in flight, but I've tried a few times with varying degrees of (personal) success. Many attempts just failed, but I enjoyed the trying. If I were to turn up with the latest and greatest gear, point and shoot and score 10/10 images in most frames would, I feel, diminish the experience.

Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours probably needs to be re-written for photography. Soon it will be more like 100 hours.

Professional clearly benefit from the success hits of their images, but there again they lose out on their revenue as anyone can now take "amazing" photographs, so what's so special about professional photographers anyway some will say?

Just wondering if I'm alone with this mindset ...

04-06-2021, 08:18 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
I don't usually take photos of birds in flight, but I've tried a few times with varying degrees of (personal) success. Many attempts just failed, but I enjoyed the trying. If I were to turn up with the latest and greatest gear, point and shoot and score 10/10 images in most frames would, I feel, diminish*the experience.*
I like this point here specifically, in that I both agree and disagree. On one hand, I really enjoy the challenge of getting a shot with the manual focus A 400, and the limitations that come along with that. On the other hand, part of the challenge with bird (and wildlife in general) photography is locating interesting subjects, while also being respectful to them. I can tell you firsthand how annoying it is to see a rare species, or a "once in a lifetime" event, and in trying to get a shot in a hurry you end with an out-of-focus brown blob. Now, I'd probably have better luck with something a bit more modern, but my main point is that with this specific subject matter, I see both sides of the argument.
04-06-2021, 08:26 AM   #3
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With fps now in double figures it seems the idea of the "decisive moment" is consigned to history. Current mobile phone ads showcase 8k video and post-shooting image extraction as the way photography will now be done. No skill needed. Organic blobs now obsolete.
04-06-2021, 08:36 AM - 1 Like   #4
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Some good points raised above. I like the progress that is made available to us as users (even if we never quite seem to get the package we’d like) so that on those never-to-be-repeated trips we can get the image we wanted. OTOH we are also lucky enough to say “I’m just taking my A series or M series etc lenses with me this week/weekend to see what I come back with.
Choice is good :-)

04-06-2021, 08:42 AM - 1 Like   #5
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I have the feeling that the modern camera is a bit to sophisticated. I'd like the AF but the only necessary elements are ISO setting, shutter speed setting and a good light meter with some compensation settings. On the lens I like to have the aperture settings. Nowadays I am drowning in all the possible settings of the camera. I want a very good camera like the celebrated ME (super) or a Super A or an SFX but then adapted to this modern digital times. So less options for me is the answer so I can enjoy it much more. As I adviced someone a while back: use only those settings you did of old. Set your favourite shutter speed and ISO on the camera, set your aperture to what think is best for you to make the pictures you want and take pictures as you did when it were analog times, so set the camera to full manual. Perhaps it makes it a little bit less boring. But use that AF!
04-06-2021, 09:14 AM   #6
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I think they are, for sure. I appreciate the modern sensors and AF, but there are WAY too many buttons and menus that I'm never going to use. My last film camera was a Pentax ZX-5 and I'd take those controls on a DSLR any day....Plus the D Pad and Display.
04-06-2021, 09:43 AM   #7
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Will modern cameras position themselves exactly and at the precise moment necessary to capture that killer shot? I think not. And what software algorithm will decide what makes an outstanding image??


Organic blob (still making images of what I enjoy) over and out.

further thoughts: perhaps the excitement is among those whose interest is in the gear rather than in the images made. Getting a correct exposure or accurate focus is so much easier than in the old days, so one's snapshots are less inept technically although still snapshots. Mind you, I would enjoy the new K since my own DSLR is now perhaps a decade behind the times and the touch screen, higher image quality and much longer shutter life would be a significant step up. But give a monkey a Leica and a brace of Summicrons and you'd be lucky to get images of nuts, so I console myself with the thought that the gear is better than me and I have much yet to learn.


Last edited by StiffLegged; 04-06-2021 at 02:52 PM.
04-06-2021, 09:50 AM - 4 Likes   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Does anyone else actually feel a little negative about it?
Just us Luddites...

That said, I would buy a simplified dSLR or rangefinder in a second if the price were good. I would be willing to forego AF in favor of more precise manual focus on a dSLR and would even be willing to say no to the rear LCD (with option for external monitor) if it meant better battery life and less bulk.


Steve
04-06-2021, 09:52 AM - 2 Likes   #9
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Once tech has matured I find it less interesting, and then it more about finding something that is good enough.

20 years ago i found computers really inresting and built my own and tried to optimize everyting. Now I just buy budget laptops and they are good enough.
10 years ago I found smartphones really intereting and tried to find the best one for me, Now I'm perfectly happy using the budget smartphone I get from the company I work for.

The last 10 years I found camera less and less interesting, and I do not find so much advantage in new cameras.
Although KP is my latest camera and the one I like best so far. Not because of the raw perfomance, but because of the best balance of usability, ease of customization, build quality and size, for me.

Last edited by Fogel70; 04-11-2021 at 11:14 AM.
04-06-2021, 10:06 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Just us Luddites...

That said, I would buy a simplified dSLR or rangefinder in a second if the price were good. I would be willing to forego AF in favor of more precise manual focus on a dSLR and would even be willing to say no to the rear LCD (with option for external monitor) if it meant better battery life and less bulk.


Steve
I agree. A simplified dSLR with the the brightest and largest viewfinder with some form of split screen to facilitate accurate manual focus, with the best DR would be the ideal camera for me.

I wouldn't want to go back to an inverted image and cape over my head, though as an aide to composition, inverting an image can be a very powerful process. So I'm not that far off, I fear - at times, that is.

---------- Post added 04-06-21 at 06:14 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Once tech has matured I find it less interesting, and then it more about finding something that is good enough.
Old tech was often frustrating, but the experience and uncertainty was part of it. A roll of film processed from a Zenith E would eagerly be awaited in my youth. Sometimes an image would stand out and I'd feel very chuffed. That emotion has all but disappeared now. I'm finding I'm using all my kit set in manual mode most of the time now, in the "studio" with lights and in the landscape. I rarely use AF even with modern glass. When I started out with digital photography I obsessed with back and front focus, but not now. Now it's more about, composition, narrative, lighting and printing.

Last edited by BarryE; 04-06-2021 at 10:26 AM.
04-06-2021, 10:22 AM   #11
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There is always "P-Mode" you can use.
04-06-2021, 10:24 AM - 3 Likes   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Mark II Quote
I have the feeling that the modern camera is a bit to sophisticated. I'd like the AF but the only necessary elements are ISO setting, shutter speed setting and a good light meter with some compensation settings. On the lens I like to have the aperture settings. Nowadays I am drowning in all the possible settings of the camera. I want a very good camera like the celebrated ME (super) or a Super A or an SFX but then adapted to this modern digital times. So less options for me is the answer so I can enjoy it much more. As I adviced someone a while back: use only those settings you did of old. Set your favourite shutter speed and ISO on the camera, set your aperture to what think is best for you to make the pictures you want and take pictures as you did when it were analog times, so set the camera to full manual. Perhaps it makes it a little bit less boring. But use that AF!
I've run a few workshops over the years and I agree with you: ISO, shutter and aperture are all that's important on the camera. Then it's down to the really crucial stuff, like composition, lighting etc. I found it interesting to guess how clients would respond to this approach - most were positive, but some did just want to ask how the tech could help them. On one occasion a sceptical client booked a half-day, but we persevered into extra -time and I won her around. Satisfying ...
04-06-2021, 10:35 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Are cameras getting too boring = sophisticated?
The is a flux of images that look similar. I guess this is due to online sharing; people going to same or similar locations trying to mimic photographs they've seen posted online. Plus most camera tech being developed in Japan with camera engineers/designers moving around, most sensors coming from the same Sony tech and factories, over the years, camera output tend to look the same.

Personally, I've found that printing selected photographs opened-up a new space of creativity for me via: choice of paper, file processing, print tech, lab services and the fact that light reflected from paper renders photographs more naturally than electronic displays. Paper/canvas/wood substrates are much less wide spread than digital images. Instead of buying additional new cameras or lenses, I've already been contemplating the idea to build my own dedicated print "lab" once I get an additional room for it. Maybe some days I'll finally decide to go ahead in that direction.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 04-06-2021 at 10:45 AM.
04-06-2021, 10:54 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The is a flux of images that look similar. I guess this is due to online sharing; people going to same or similar locations trying to mimic photographs they've seen posted online. Plus most camera tech being developed in Japan with camera engineers/designers moving around, most sensors coming from the same Sony tech and factories, over the years, camera output tend to look the same.

Personally, I've found that printing selected photographs opened-up a new space of creativity for me via: choice of paper, file processing, print tech, lab services and the fact that light reflected from paper renders photographs more naturally than electronic displays. Instead of buying additional new cameras or lenses, I've already been contemplating the idea to build my own print "lab" once I get an additional room for it. Maybe some days I'll finally decide to go ahead in that direction.
I agree with your printing view. A paper print (please not high gloss, for most shots ) using a carefully selected paper evokes a very different response to an image. An otherwise dull-on-the-screen image can sometimes shine on paper, especially when viewing it more thoughtfully.

The "going to same or similar locations trying to mimic photographs they've seen posted online" is one I find most sad. There's a well known, in the UK, bluebell wood near me. I go there often. Pre-dawn I'm normally the first to arrive. On one occasion I was slowly getting my gear together, when a car of two photographers arrived. They ignored my greeting before, literally, running off to get to the location I assume they'd found out about. Needless to say, I went elsewhere that morning. I've never seen them again at that location. I assume they've ticked it off. I hope they got their shots ...
04-06-2021, 10:55 AM - 4 Likes   #15
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As long as cameras are beautifully built, ergonomically sound, capable tools, and fun to use - as Pentax cameras usually are - I don't find them boring at all. The K-3 III has got me stoked up unlike anything since the original K-3.

And even with the latest & greatest tools in their hands, enough people still manage to take utterly uncompelling images, which tells me that the moron behind the camera still matters. Does it matter for my estimation of a photograph how much skill and effort went into it? Well, up to a point yes, but the history of great photography is full of examples where someone just happened to be somewhere at the right time and simply nailed the shot - which you stand better chances of accomplishing with that particular readiness, presence of mind, instinct, whatever that only deep experience and skill will bring. If modern technology helps me to bring home images that I could only dream of when I started my photographic journey back in 1983, I genuinely appreciate that.
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