Does Shutter Count, Count?

CertEdFriday · 11-24-2008, 03:32 PM

Could someone explain the importance of the number of shutter releases a DSLR has recorded in it's life? After a certain number, does the camera need an overhaul or is it for the scrap heap

Venturi · 11-24-2008, 04:09 PM

It's really kind of a spurious measurement on a camera's life expectancy, IMO. The K10/K20 shutters are rated at I believe "approximately 100,000 actuations" (loosely paraphrased). So what that means basically is that if you take 10,000 photos per year Pentax figures, the shutter at least, should last you about 10 years.

People buying used bodies figure they can get an idea of how well/poorly treated a camera is and try to guess a fair price based on it. That's all fine and if you see a used K20D on the market today with 50,000 actuations then you can make some judgement calls on it's value, but in general shutter count really isn't a very reliable measurement of anything but the owner's available hard drive usage, as what happens on the exterior of the camera is often more damaging than the interior.

HGMonaro · 11-24-2008, 06:05 PM

why do people worry how far a car has travelled when buying one? Mechanical things wear out. In the camera's case it's most likely the shutter mechanism. Are you going to buy one that says it's taken 90,000 pics when Pentax reckons they are good for 100,000. Not likely! Yes it could go for a lot longer, but are you willing to bet your hard earned money on that.

If it does need a new shutter installed, the labour, parts & postage is most likely going to be more than buying a new one. The new one is likely to be a better thing (updated specs) anyway.

Blue · 11-24-2008, 08:00 PM

who came up with this magical number of 100,000? Did they have 15 or 20 people clicking away with K20Ds and averaged how many exposures were taken before that pooped out?

HGMonaro · 11-24-2008, 09:18 PM

bet it was easier to determine than the life of various methods of making a print!

if my calculations are correct... at 3fps, hooked up to a permanent power supply and with no memory card (can they do that? I don't know) it would only take 9.5hrs to test it

TourDeForce · 11-24-2008, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by HGMonaro

if my calculations are correct... at 3fps, hooked up to a permanent power supply and with no memory card (can they do that? I don't know) it would only take 9.5hrs to test it

Yes, they can with a K100D anyway.

AND DON'T ASK ME HOW I KNOW THAT !!

Dark_Mist · 11-25-2008, 03:19 AM

How do you tell the total actuations?

I've had both my *istD (already sold on) and K10D pass 10,000 images when the camera starts naming the images IMGP0001 etc. Assuming I've looked after the exterior, how does a potential purchaser know if I've hardly used the camera or I've hammered it almost to death?

I realise I may be shooting myself in the foot for when it comes time to sell my K10D in the future.

HGMonaro · 11-25-2008, 05:51 AM

use an EXIF information program (eg. PhotoMe) to view the extended info. Buried in there is the value.

Zebooka · 11-25-2008, 06:18 AM

Originally posted by Blue

who came up with this magical number of 100,000? Did they have 15 or 20 people clicking away with K20Ds and averaged how many exposures were taken before that pooped out?

They ran a test with Shutter.

100'000 is an average number when 1/4000" becomes more like 1/3000" and exposure time at highest shutter speed has significant errors.

Ofcause, your shutter can die with 1'000 snapshots, or live until 500'000

Here - http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/

nomadseifer · 11-25-2008, 06:41 AM

I use Aperture and it has expanded EXIF data but I dont see a shutter-count in there. Any specifics on how to extract it from my K10d?

Edvinas · 11-25-2008, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by Blue

who came up with this magical number of 100,000? Did they have 15 or 20 people clicking away with K20Ds and averaged how many exposures were taken before that pooped out?

This number was stated in K10D and K20D announcements.

K10D: PENTAX NEWS release 2006 : PENTAX K10D
K20D: PENTAX K20D - A High-Performance Lens-Interchangeable Digital SLR Camera for Truly Demanding Photo Enthusiasts

Zebooka · 11-25-2008, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by nomadseifer

I use Aperture and it has expanded EXIF data but I dont see a shutter-count in there. Any specifics on how to extract it from my K10d?

Use Exiftool or PhotoMe programs

KjetilH · 11-25-2008, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by TourDeForce

Yes, they can with a K100D anyway.

AND DON'T ASK ME HOW I KNOW THAT !!

(Felt like quoting myself. Topic is K100D service menu, and the "makes-no-sense" shutter wear-out function.)

Originally posted by KjetilH

Probably useful for the situation where you are married, and your wife doesn't understand why you have to buy another camera, when the old one still works.

On topic: I would not be bothered much by a somewhat high shutter count, it would depend more on its owner. Most people treat their cameras good. Even my K100D, which turned 11.000 before I gave it away, looked pretty much new.

sevenarrow · 11-25-2008, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by nomadseifer

I use Aperture and it has expanded EXIF data but I dont see a shutter-count in there. Any specifics on how to extract it from my K10d?

I use PhotoMe. I don't know whether it is the same with Aperture but with PhotoMe the shutter count is not displayed if you are viewing a JPG file that has been edited. You must view a fresh unedited JPG or RAW file straight out of the camera.

Blue · 11-25-2008, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

This number was stated in K10D and K20D announcements.

K10D: PENTAX NEWS release 2006 : PENTAX K10D
K20D: PENTAX K20D - A High-Performance Lens-Interchangeable Digital SLR Camera for Truly Demanding Photo Enthusiasts

Thanks. Here is the quote from it.

Quote:

Reliable, durable shutter unit assuring more than 100,000 shutter releases

Originally posted by Zebooka

. . .
Ofcause, your shutter can die with 1'000 snapshots, or live until 500'000

Here - http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/

Thanks, I booked marked that site.

11-24-2008, 03:32 PM	#1
CertEdFriday Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: UK - Somerset Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 175	Does Shutter Count, Count? Could someone explain the importance of the number of shutter releases a DSLR has recorded in it's life? After a certain number, does the camera need an overhaul or is it for the scrap heap

11-25-2008, 06:41 AM	#10
nomadseifer New Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 6	EXIF data I use Aperture and it has expanded EXIF data but I dont see a shutter-count in there. Any specifics on how to extract it from my K10d?

11-25-2008, 09:06 AM	#14
sevenarrow Forum Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 61	Re: Finding Shutter Count Originally posted by nomadseifer I use Aperture and it has expanded EXIF data but I dont see a shutter-count in there. Any specifics on how to extract it from my K10d? I use PhotoMe. I don't know whether it is the same with Aperture but with PhotoMe the shutter count is not displayed if you are viewing a JPG file that has been edited. You must view a fresh unedited JPG or RAW file straight out of the camera.

11-25-2008, 09:09 AM	#15
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Edvinas This number was stated in K10D and K20D announcements. K10D: PENTAX NEWS release 2006 : PENTAX K10D K20D: PENTAX K20D - A High-Performance Lens-Interchangeable Digital SLR Camera for Truly Demanding Photo Enthusiasts Thanks. Here is the quote from it. Quote: Reliable, durable shutter unit assuring more than 100,000 shutter releases Originally posted by Zebooka . . . Ofcause, your shutter can die with 1'000 snapshots, or live until 500'000 Here - http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/ Thanks, I booked marked that site. Last edited by Blue; 11-25-2008 at 09:42 AM.

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11-24-2008, 04:09 PM	#2
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	It's really kind of a spurious measurement on a camera's life expectancy, IMO. The K10/K20 shutters are rated at I believe "approximately 100,000 actuations" (loosely paraphrased). So what that means basically is that if you take 10,000 photos per year Pentax figures, the shutter at least, should last you about 10 years. People buying used bodies figure they can get an idea of how well/poorly treated a camera is and try to guess a fair price based on it. That's all fine and if you see a used K20D on the market today with 50,000 actuations then you can make some judgement calls on it's value, but in general shutter count really isn't a very reliable measurement of anything but the owner's available hard drive usage, as what happens on the exterior of the camera is often more damaging than the interior.

11-24-2008, 06:05 PM	#3
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	why do people worry how far a car has travelled when buying one? Mechanical things wear out. In the camera's case it's most likely the shutter mechanism. Are you going to buy one that says it's taken 90,000 pics when Pentax reckons they are good for 100,000. Not likely! Yes it could go for a lot longer, but are you willing to bet your hard earned money on that. If it does need a new shutter installed, the labour, parts & postage is most likely going to be more than buying a new one. The new one is likely to be a better thing (updated specs) anyway.

11-24-2008, 08:00 PM	#4
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	who came up with this magical number of 100,000? Did they have 15 or 20 people clicking away with K20Ds and averaged how many exposures were taken before that pooped out?

11-24-2008, 09:18 PM	#5
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	bet it was easier to determine than the life of various methods of making a print! if my calculations are correct... at 3fps, hooked up to a permanent power supply and with no memory card (can they do that? I don't know) it would only take 9.5hrs to test it

11-24-2008, 11:11 PM	#6
TourDeForce Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 514	Originally posted by HGMonaro if my calculations are correct... at 3fps, hooked up to a permanent power supply and with no memory card (can they do that? I don't know) it would only take 9.5hrs to test it Yes, they can with a K100D anyway. AND DON'T ASK ME HOW I KNOW THAT !!

11-25-2008, 03:19 AM	#7
Dark_Mist Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Adelaide Photos: Albums Posts: 102	How do you tell the total actuations? I've had both my *istD (already sold on) and K10D pass 10,000 images when the camera starts naming the images IMGP0001 etc. Assuming I've looked after the exterior, how does a potential purchaser know if I've hardly used the camera or I've hammered it almost to death? I realise I may be shooting myself in the foot for when it comes time to sell my K10D in the future.

11-25-2008, 05:51 AM	#8
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	use an EXIF information program (eg. PhotoMe) to view the extended info. Buried in there is the value.

11-25-2008, 06:18 AM	#9
Zebooka Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Russia, Siberia, Novosibirsk Posts: 323	Originally posted by Blue who came up with this magical number of 100,000? Did they have 15 or 20 people clicking away with K20Ds and averaged how many exposures were taken before that pooped out? They ran a test with Shutter. 100'000 is an average number when 1/4000" becomes more like 1/3000" and exposure time at highest shutter speed has significant errors. Ofcause, your shutter can die with 1'000 snapshots, or live until 500'000 Here - http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/

11-25-2008, 07:25 AM	#11
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by Blue who came up with this magical number of 100,000? Did they have 15 or 20 people clicking away with K20Ds and averaged how many exposures were taken before that pooped out? This number was stated in K10D and K20D announcements. K10D: PENTAX NEWS release 2006 : PENTAX K10D K20D: PENTAX K20D - A High-Performance Lens-Interchangeable Digital SLR Camera for Truly Demanding Photo Enthusiasts

11-25-2008, 08:56 AM	#12
Zebooka Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Russia, Siberia, Novosibirsk Posts: 323	Originally posted by nomadseifer I use Aperture and it has expanded EXIF data but I dont see a shutter-count in there. Any specifics on how to extract it from my K10d? Use Exiftool or PhotoMe programs

11-25-2008, 08:58 AM	#13
KjetilH Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oslo Photos: Gallery Posts: 309	Originally posted by TourDeForce Yes, they can with a K100D anyway. AND DON'T ASK ME HOW I KNOW THAT !! (Felt like quoting myself. Topic is K100D service menu, and the "makes-no-sense" shutter wear-out function.) Originally posted by KjetilH Probably useful for the situation where you are married, and your wife doesn't understand why you have to buy another camera, when the old one still works. On topic: I would not be bothered much by a somewhat high shutter count, it would depend more on its owner. Most people treat their cameras good. Even my K100D, which turned 11.000 before I gave it away, looked pretty much new.