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06-24-2021, 11:11 AM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
You have to have the courage to draw the line somewhere, resist temptation, and be real with yourself. For me the Pentax K1 is enough. My brief time with the Sony A7r 3/4 taught me that. They went too far, to a place that is soulless, like being inside the Matrix. The steak doesn't taste great if you know it's not real. Reality is hard, and learning is always difficult, but the rewards are great. There is no shortcut to excellence in anything. Never has been, never will be. (Everything that's wrong with the modern world in two sentences. )
OTOH, one could find that a new generation camera is more pleasing to use. Perhaps it's the viewfinder. Perhaps there's the removal of some small annoyance or another. Perhaps it's the precise positioning of the middle finger.
Pentax does not become a soulless Sony by improving themselves. Pentax remains Pentax.

06-24-2021, 11:38 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Pentax does not become a soulless Sony by improving themselves. Pentax remains Pentax.
I think that's part of the point Ed/Qwntm is making in the linked video. Did you watch it?
06-24-2021, 01:59 PM - 2 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
We went past the point of "too much is not enough" for most photographers a while ago. The cutting edge features in cameras today are only possibly useful to a handful of photographers getting paid to cover the Olympics.




In a craft and profession that I'm still learning after almost 40 years, human nature says that most would rather let "auto" and the computers fast track them to decent results. And of course they have Luminar AI, Toneh f1.2 and don't even have to be there. (As opposed to f8 and be there.)

You have to have the courage to draw the line somewhere, resist temptation, and be real with yourself. For me the Pentax K1 is enough. My brief time with the Sony A7r 3/4 taught me that. They went too far, to a place that is soulless, like being inside the Matrix. The steak doesn't taste great if you know it's not real. Reality is hard, and learning is always difficult, but the rewards are great. There is no shortcut to excellence in anything. Never has been, never will be. (Everything that's wrong with the modern world in two sentences. )
Possibly one of the most profound statements I have read on the internet or anywhere else in many years.

---------- Post added 06-24-21 at 02:05 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The question remains whether the core of serious photography is better served by "fast, quick autofocus during video and tracking autofocus still images". Despite the emphasis placed on these two features by reviewers and marketing, both cater to specific user segments; amateur videographers, birds-in-flight/action sports/crazy dogs/crazy kids*, and tech addicts. Did I use the words "tech addicts"? Well, I guess I did!

Strangely enough, craft tends to trump tech overall and not just for landscape work; this being true for creative and professional satisfaction purposes, if for little else. Take, for example, street photography. What roles does predictive AF play in that realm? Does eye AF really make the shot for portraits or is it a crutch? How much of wedding/event work requires the equivalent of a superb snapshot machine? Where are the masochists that use AF for close-focus and macro work?

\rant

Steve

* I might include wildlife except that the pros I know don't use continuous AF.
This one is right up there too!
06-24-2021, 02:08 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The D FA 21mm Limited is even more critical (because I want it)
This for me too. The DFA 15-30 is not an option for me as its just too big & heavy (not to mention an expensive item) for current use cases.

I ended up getting a FA* 24 as a stop gap, and I'm finding 24mm a very useful focal length on FF. Sure the old FA*24 is not a perfect lens (sharpness across the frame could be better - especially near wide open) but it does have quite nice rendering in many scenarios.

Anyway as far as this video goes, I also think he makes some valid points. It all comes down to the creative process and what works for the photographer (for what you like to shoot).
TBH I quite like playing with shinny new toys with all the new features (like mirrorless cameras) but, unless I start shooting video or a lot of action, I can't see they will improve my photography at this point. <-- Other than with new photography toys I tend to be out more playing with them!

06-24-2021, 03:40 PM   #20
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Thanks for posting that video. Rambling as it was, as is pointed out above there are some interesting points made. First off who is this dude? Just wondering what kind of authority he is.

To keep this comment short, I'll just say modern or classic fine, call it whatever you wish, it (the Pentax system) just works well for me. Oh, and I don't really give a whoot about video. Nice to have but I use it well less than 1% of the year.
06-24-2021, 05:55 PM - 1 Like   #21
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I bought into Pentax mainly because it's classic.
06-24-2021, 09:29 PM - 1 Like   #22
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I'd be concerned about, rather than modern versus classic, the list of things that a modern camera (e.g mirrorless brand) doesn't do as well as a so called classic DSLR, and the list of bugs.
There is this model of frequent firmware updates over unfinished firmware (with some bugs or some weird behavior), long after a new camera model was released, if that's what modern is all about, I prefer to stay classic.
I find it shocking that a modern $5000 mirrorless camera freeze when shooting more than one image at a time (remove battery to reset the camera), or that the battery drains overnight with camera switched off, or that if you rotate the camera the menu displayed on LCD doesn't rotate. So, perhaps my Pentax K1 is not modern, but at least it's "only" $2000 and works flawlessly, I mean it doesn't freeze when I burst 3 shots, and I can leave a charged battery in it for 6 month and is still fully charge when I switch on the camera and when I rotate my K1 the menu displayed at the back rotate automatically so that I can always read settings without effort.

---------- Post added 25-06-21 at 06:54 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
We went past the point of "too much is not enough" for most photographers a while ago.
:-) it depends. Digital cameras are built with an approach to work around the fact that the cost of electronic image sensors increases exponentially with size.

Digital camera manufacturers favored speed over sensor size. Digital camera companies avoid increasing sensor size as much as they can because they know it would eat their profit margins. Instead, they try to increase speed of operation (burst speed, AF tracking speed) and software features (such as super-resolution, pixel shift, eye AF), because once the software is done, those features come at $0 marginal cost for every additional camera unit sold, that's were the profit is made. Quick, small sensors camera packed with software features and video features is what we are told we need to have. Nowadays, no camera manufacturer will tell us we need a large format camera to print wall sized photo print.

In film systems, the cost of film isn't even part of the cost of the camera system, the cost of making a LF film camera isn't more than making a smaller wooden camera, and in LF camera the "sensor" is so much larger that the quality of glass is almost irrelevant due to the system being mostly aperture diffraction limited (exposures f/16, f/22, f/32 ..).


Last edited by biz-engineer; 06-24-2021 at 09:58 PM.
06-24-2021, 10:43 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
I think that's part of the point Ed/Qwntm is making in the linked video. Did you watch it?
Sorry, but I'm not watching his videos.
06-24-2021, 10:47 PM   #24
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I liked the video, he made some interesting points about Pentax. But I'm still left wondering why the author did not like to use Sony cameras? I don't have any experience with their products.
06-25-2021, 01:35 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Sorry, but I'm not watching his videos.
You're a Pentax purist, that's why
06-25-2021, 01:46 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
You're a Pentax purist, that's why
He's ranting way too much. If there are some interesting points, they're hard to find
06-25-2021, 09:14 AM - 2 Likes   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by artrasa Quote
I liked the video, he made some interesting points about Pentax. But I'm still left wondering why the author did not like to use Sony cameras? I don't have any experience with their products.
The Sony AF is like magic. People who shoot Sony leave it on continuous AF for everything, it's that good. But the rest of the camera feels unfinished. (A7r3/4/c is what I have experience with.) In bulb mode they revert to 12 bit raw. I think in continuous 12fps as well. You can't get information on an external monitor in 4k, but you can in 1080p. When making solo video content in 4K there's no way to know if the camera is recording from in front of it. No tally light options at all. (Remember, Sony's are supposed to be among the best hybrid cameras.) There's a ton of lenses for Sony and they either suck or are expensive and sometimes they suck and are expensive. Most have issues of one kind or another. The Zeiss 24-70mm F4 has a mixed reputation and suffers from sample variation. But the focusing mech is glued and sometimes un-glues itself. It's an $800 repair through Sony for a $1000 lens which really should be covered as a manufacturing or design defect. And then color science leaves a lot to be desired.


At the end of the day, Sony was too much of a VCR company and not enough of a camera company for me.

06-26-2021, 12:19 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
The Sony AF is like magic.
Magic, no magic, the latest mirrorless do very well here (while obviously having an advantage in terms of coverage and AF points). There can be some impact on image quality, the users seems to be accepting it though.

This makes me think, perhaps SAFOX 13 should be the last Pentax dedicated AF system - with the next generation of Pentax DSLRs using on-the-sensor AF.
DSLRs can adopt some of the mirrorless' advantages, while keeping theirs.
06-26-2021, 01:14 AM   #29
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Pentax are a medium format company and need to get on with updating the 645z with 100mp plus, or 150mp full frame and some updates to some lenses
06-26-2021, 04:06 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by SFTphotography Quote
updating the 645z with 100mp plus, or 150mp full frame and some updates to some lenses
Three new TS lenses covering 645 full format. There wouldn't be any competition offering anything like that.

---------- Post added 26-06-21 at 13:11 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
At the end of the day, Sony was too much of a VCR company and not enough of a camera company for me.
I've seen some guy shooting portraits at Venice carnival (before covid years) with a Pentax 6x7 with wooden handle and vintage wooden tripod. That was impressive, people and models queuing to get photographed by that 6x7.
No one was queuing for a Sony A7 shot, was just considered like the "me too" camera you bought on amazon like everyone else after having read the buy recommendation on DPReview

Last edited by biz-engineer; 06-26-2021 at 04:12 AM.
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