[Mooncatt]

EDIT: I clarify a few things in a comment a few posts down, which I suggest reading as well.

We are going to have a (hopefully) scheduled delivery in a little over a week via c-section due to complications. Because of various reasons, we won't be able to have a photographer in the OR, but they will allow me to bring my own camera for one of the staff to use during delivery as long as nothing is emergent. This wouldn't be the first time I've been in an operating room, but I've never tried to photograph anything in one. I'm pretty sure it'll be bright enough either way, but I'm wondering if it'll be enough that the 18-135mm WR lens can be an option.

My plan is to either use that lens or go with the 35mm macro, set to P mode with the MTF program line setting so it uses the sharpest lens apertures. My goal is to be able to just hand it to a staff member and all they have to do is push the shutter and work the zoom if using the 18-135mm. The reason I'm going P mode instead of auto is because my K3 II wanted to run the ISO higher than I liked and no way to limit it in full auto.

So my question is if anyone knows if a typical operating room would be bright enough so ISO can be limited to 800 max, potentially f/8 (What the 18-135mm lens is registering as the sharpest at the long end) if the staffer zooms all the way in, and still have a fast enough shutter speed to hand hold and freeze the action.

I'm thinking that should be ok, but it's not like I'll be able to take practice shots and correct, so I'm looking for confirmation. I'm also somewhat torn on which lens to use from an IQ standpoint. The 35mm is going to look sharp as all get out, has an acceptable focal length, and checks in wider open at f/4 for lower ISO and/or faster shutter speed, but somewhat noisy focus. The 18-135mm offers decent IQ but the extra flexibility of the zoom is a big plus to get tight shots without getting in the way, and the focusing is nearly silent.

I do know a photographer with birthing experience, but I think she runs canon full frame. I plan to touch base with her, but hoping someone here has more relatable Pentax experience.

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Last edited by Mooncatt; 07-14-2021 at 06:37 AM.

[stevebrot]

My goal is to be able to just hand it to a staff member and all they have to do is push the shutter and work the zoom if using the 18-135mm.

If those are are terms, your best solution is a very simple P&S with rear LCD as viewfinder. It is likely that the staff person has other duties beyond your photos. For technical considerations, the table itself is VERY brightly lit with the rest of the room being well-lit.

I have photos from my daughter's emergency c-section birth. All were taken from my side of the drape and well outside the sterile field and I can assure you that stuff like the incision and other things happening over there are not something to share. The positive emotional content in that scene is extremely limited. The good stuff happens when your child is brought around to meet their mom and you. That is when you hand the camera off if you haven't already. That was back in the mid-1980s and while I have very nice kit at home, the camera for the day was an Minolta AF P&S loaded with ASA 400 print film. The photos were great.

Don't get distracted from the main event. Your partner needs you.


Steve

[MarkJerling]

Good luck with the birth!

I have photographed our children being born by c-section, but, in both cases it was using film. I can't remember the film ISO but it's unlikely to have been higher than 800 ASA.
With our first child's birth, I had to stay up by my wife's head behind a screen so I only got to shoot once the baby was out and handed to my wife. With our second child's birth, I managed to convince the obstetrician to leave the screen down so I could see the whole procedure and I could photograph our child being removed from his mother.

While the operating theatre is quite bright, it's not overly so, except for the area of surgery. Speak with your surgeon beforehand: It's his theatre. He'll let you know what he's happy with and what not. Bear in mind that the only person who will be able to handle your camera would, like the camera, not be sterile and will therefore not be able to be anyone who has a job in theatre handling sterile equipment. As such, relying on someone with a job to do may not be that easy as that person will be concentrating on their job and not on your camera.

It's not clear for me from your post whether you're giving birth or your partner? If it's you who's giving birth then you may consider having your partner be the photographer. If you have a partner who can take a few shots, that person may therefore be a better choice for photographer than having someone with a job to do handle your camera. Note too that there are not very many level surfaces to put things down in an operating theatre so consider having a easily held open camera bag of some description so that the camera can be place in that and not potentially be simply placed on the floor but ask where you can leave the camera bag without being in the way or potentially being a non-sterile hazard.

Note too that operating theatres can have multiple hazards such as leads, tubes and other obstructions on the floor. So if you do have a partner who's allowed to move around to shoot from another angle, make sure that person knows to not get in the way or trip over anything. Theatres can be noisy spaces so I would not worry about a lens focussing silently or not.

The most important consideration for whoever is handling the camera is for that person to be someone who can handle seeing a medical procedure taking place. If the photographer is someone who does not like the look of the red stuff that tends to come out when you get a cut or who can't handle seeing stuff that's normally not seen, then that person may not be the right person for the job. In short, if your photographer falls over you'll annoy your surgeon and potentially break your camera which will annoy you so best to have someone holding the camera who knows how to hold a camera and knows not to fall over anything or pass out in operating theatres.

Remember too that once the baby is out, all focus for the new parents generally shift to the baby, so, chances are, you/your partner will want to hold your baby as soon as the medical staff have done what they need to do. At that point, a camera can get in the way. My advice would be to shoot no more than a few shots and then put the camera away.

Good luck with the birth!

[Mooncatt]

Thanks for the tips so far. To clarify some things, let's just say that if I'm the one giving birth, it'll be both the greatest medical miracle and mystery the world has seen. Lol. My wife would be doing that part and I'll be next to her during the birth. I can handle seeing the result of a cut, but not so much when someone's insides are on the outside. So we know when is happens, I'll not be looking over the drape or taking the photos. I do know that there will be extra staff on hand, and they have done photos like that before. While not a photo I'd personally want, my wife does want one of the official "birth" for her own memories.

And of course, we know momma and baby's safety come first, and that photos may not even be a possibility if it's an emergent situation. We will talk to the teams about it as the time gets closer to see what is and isn't possible. My goal of this thread is to get my own plan set up ahead of time assuming everything works out. I don't want to talk to them the day before and then have to rush to figure out the best option on my end.

[MarkJerling]

Thanks for clearing that up, soon to be dad!

Our son midway out of the c-section is one of my treasured photos. Of course, your wife will not be able to see the event unfolding so having a photo makes sense.
I'm not squeamish at all, so I enjoyed being the photographer. (I've designed theatres so I have been in more than a few.)

In your case, enjoy being there. It is, of course, a very special event for all concerned! If there's extra staff, then that may be your best course of action.

[pinholecam]

I have shot 4 births and personally I use one lens (usually the 35mm or 31mm), a fast zoom like the Tamron 28-75/2.8 works too.
I will avoid the 18-135mm.

Generally what is considered 'lighting' in most rooms is about ISO800-1600, 1/60, f2.8 (or a stop more). A variable aperture zoom will cause more variations that what I like.
You will need to be very comfortable shooting with the 35/2.8 macro though.
Simulate/practice at home would not be a bad idea if unfamiliar with the focal length and settings.

[danielblues]

Don't get distracted from the main event. Your partner needs you.

After that one, you should also live it, it's really intense, life changing moment.


After this, I photographed both natural births of my daughters with the fa50, my brightest lens. It was the right choice for the low light environment they had on the hospital. Used the k30 on the first KP on the second, I prefer the results from the k30, but probably due to having more cpu cycles available for the task and more participation needed on the second.

Having participated in five such events (not involving surgery), myself, my observation is that the picture you want is the one where the mother has fully recovered from the anaesthesia, has the sheets pulled up, has the baby on her breast, and everyone looks happy. You don't need pictures of a bloody half-groggy woman. Surgery is not pretty.
By the way, I aways avoided the use of a flash when photographing children. I don't like it flashing in my eyes, and I'm thinking they won't like it much either, although too young to complain.

[robgski]

If those are are terms, your best solution is a very simple P&S with rear LCD as viewfinder. It is likely that the staff person has other duties beyond your photos.

the picture you want is the one where the mother has fully recovered from the anaesthesia, has the sheets pulled up, has the baby on her breast, and everyone looks happy. You don't need pictures of a bloody half-groggy woman. Surgery is not pretty.

Having been in the delivery room for the birth of both my children, I agree. Especially because my wife needed extensive stitching after the second birth and I was ushered out of the room with my newborn son for quite a while. No need for pictures there, and I recommend having a pacifier handy if you are in a similar situation after the birth.
Also, the staff in the room have been through dozens, if not hundreds of these procedures, they probably have a good idea of when the "decisive moment " will occur.

[UncleVanya]

Many ORs banned videography and photography during these events for legal reasons. Let that sink in.

But I personally agree with the others. The only shot that will be seen in the future frequently is the one after recovery.

[stevebrot]

After that one, you should also live it, it's really intense, life changing moment.

Yep! The moment I held that little girl, all the "daddy" switches were thrown and my life changed forever.


Steve

Many ORs banned videography and photography during these events for legal reasons. Let that sink in. ...

I'd be interested to know what kind of legal reasons they could possibly have - my first thought is that the legality goes the other way, and that they don't have the power or authority to do that in violation of the client's wishes.

[UncleVanya]

I'd be interested to know what kind of legal reasons they could possibly have - my first thought is that the legality goes the other way, and that they don't have the power or authority to do that in violation of the client's wishes.

That’s not a public space. They get to set whatever rules they want. Docs and hospitals got sued a lot based on video of birth so they colluded to ban videos in many places.

The articles on it are out in the web.

That’s not a public space. They get to set whatever rules they want. Docs and hospitals got sued a lot based on video of birth so they colluded to ban videos in many places.

The articles on it are out in the web.

Ah, so that's it - suppression of evidence supporting a claim of malpractice. The "legal reason" isn't that there's some law that could be violated in the event of birth photography, but a reaction out of fear of lawsuits against negligent physicians. I still don't think they've got the authority to do so, because it's not just a real-property issue but a question of who's in charge? Most of the legal principles I'm aware of say the patient is in charge - he's the employer, after all. I can imagine the lawsuit that would result from a hospital trying to tell a father that he can't take pictures of his wife and child-to-be at birth-time when they call "security" to have him removed from the premises. No longer practicing law, myself, but it almost makes me salivate, just thinking about it.

[PDL]

Ah, so that's it - suppression of evidence supporting a claim of malpractice. The "legal reason" isn't that there's some law that could be violated in the event of birth photography, but a reaction out of fear of lawsuits against negligent physicians. I still don't think they've got the authority to do so, because it's not just a real-property issue but a question of who's in charge? Most of the legal principles I'm aware of say the patient is in charge - he's the employer, after all. I can imagine the lawsuit that would result from a hospital trying to tell a father that he can't take pictures of his wife and child-to-be at birth-time when they call "security" to have him removed from the premises. No longer practicing law, myself, but it almost makes me salivate, just thinking about it.

You are over reacting.

When something is introduced into the operating theater it has to be as sterile as possible. A camera or phone is no different than a person.

When my son was born by C-section, I was allowed into the operating theater - mostly to give my wife support. I had to put on scrubs, booties, mask, gloves and hairnet. My glasses were disinfected and I had to scrub my hands for a full 5 minutes before getting gloves on and entering the room. My wife was awake during the procedure as I held her hand. When the nurse handed me my son to show to his mother, while stitching her up, I am sure my son looked up at that blue blob and wondered if his father was a Smurf.

This was during the film days. After the birth and when my wife was back in her room to sleep off the meds, my son was under a heat lamp and there I was with my camera. I got within a few feet and shot with a 55mm f1.8 wide open. Before shooting the nurse told me it was OK to take pictures of MY son but flash was not allowed in the nursery - ever.

The no camera's in the theater or nursery is not a draconian system to deny malpractice claims. Operating theaters are not public spaces and the rules of the room outweigh the desire for "documentation". As for the patient being "in control", in the Operating theater, the patient is usually under anesthetic and is unaware of what is going on. There are also legal papers signed outlining restrictions and liabilities before entering - I know - I've signed them.