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07-16-2021, 06:35 PM - 1 Like   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by GordonZA Quote
Hi All,

It's been a long time since I posted anything on here but do come along and read the posts and look at all the amazing pictures every now and then.

The reason for the title of the post is that I just don't get the philosophy behind Pentax when they release a camera.

Just before the K1 was released I got info from the South African distributor that the 150-450mm was about to be launched and I thought at the time, fantastic, if they are creating that kind of lens along with the 70-200 it must mean that the K1 will be Pentax's answer to the various sports bodies that were out at the time. Then when they put the camera out, it turned out to be a strictly landscape type camera not suited to fast action.

Now fast forward to 2021 and they have just released the awesome K3iii which is undoubtedly meant to be a sports camera. This time, the lenses that are being released are anything but sports lenses!

This is why I just don't understand their intentions. Surely when you release a camera body and lenses you should release a system. I would have thought at the very least they would update the 150-450 or do a 200-600 sports lens?

Has anyone else felt this frustration with the Pentax eco-system?
It's an old story. There are numerous matters which many often find frustrating. Granted, Pentax has never been out to compete with Nikon and Canon when it comes to professional sports photography, with super-fast frame rates and Wow-specs for AF tracking, etc, especially on a FF camera body. Actually, for a combo of reach and a fast-operating body, a really good APS-C system is more practical for this kind of need. So now we have the K-3 III, obviously designed for fast action and burst shooting. Fastest-ever Pentax in both fps and AF. But, as we have seen, the Pentax lenses having the fastest AF have the PLM system. Where are the better grade of lenses to match up with the $2,000 K-3 III that are PLM lenses? Or is the K-3 III designed to make lenses having DC AF just as fast as PLM lenses? The K-3 III was a looong time in coming, during which there was no upgrade of the DFA 150-450mm to PLM, nor have the DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 or the DFA 70-200mm f/2.8 been upgraded to PLM, nor have the DA* 200mm and 300mm been so upgraded. Even the long-promised new DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 PLM has yet to appear to go with the new K-3 III. If putting a slow-AF old SDM lens on the speedy new K-3 III, what is the point of having the K-3 III?

07-16-2021, 06:59 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
It's an old story. There are numerous matters which many often find frustrating. Granted, Pentax has never been out to compete with Nikon and Canon when it comes to professional sports photography, with super-fast frame rates and Wow-specs for AF tracking, etc, especially on a FF camera body. Actually, for a combo of reach and a fast-operating body, a really good APS-C system is more practical for this kind of need. So now we have the K-3 III, obviously designed for fast action and burst shooting. Fastest-ever Pentax in both fps and AF. But, as we have seen, the Pentax lenses having the fastest AF have the PLM system. Where are the better grade of lenses to match up with the $2,000 K-3 III that are PLM lenses? Or is the K-3 III designed to make lenses having DC AF just as fast as PLM lenses? The K-3 III was a looong time in coming, during which there was no upgrade of the DFA 150-450mm to PLM, nor have the DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 or the DFA 70-200mm f/2.8 been upgraded to PLM, nor have the DA* 200mm and 300mm been so upgraded. Even the long-promised new DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 PLM has yet to appear to go with the new K-3 III. If putting a slow-AF old SDM lens on the speedy new K-3 III, what is the point of having the K-3 III?
PLM has limits to the weight of the lens focusing group. The 55–300 PLM is likely the longest PLM lens we’re likely to see, and it’s quite dark at the long end. The two DFA lenses you cite have DC focusing motors that are modern and fast. There’s no hope of making a lens of that size that uses PLM. I haven’t tried the DFA* 70–200 on the K-3 iii, but I rented a DFA 150–450 and it was snappy focusing on wildlife both with and without the HD DA 1.4x teleconverter. Let’s see what comes with the 70-ish to 300-ish DFA lens on the roadmap. The impending release of the DA* 16–50mm f/2.8 (You must have missed all the hubbub about it this week…the ambassadors have been released from their embargo.) means that they should be able to add another in development lens to the roadmap, which I imagine might be the DA* 50–135mm.
07-16-2021, 08:54 PM - 3 Likes   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by GordonZA Quote
Hi All,

It's been a long time since I posted anything on here but do come along and read the posts and look at all the amazing pictures every now and then.

The reason for the title of the post is that I just don't get the philosophy behind Pentax when they release a camera.

Just before the K1 was released I got info from the South African distributor that the 150-450mm was about to be launched and I thought at the time, fantastic, if they are creating that kind of lens along with the 70-200 it must mean that the K1 will be Pentax's answer to the various sports bodies that were out at the time. Then when they put the camera out, it turned out to be a strictly landscape type camera not suited to fast action.

Now fast forward to 2021 and they have just released the awesome K3iii which is undoubtedly meant to be a sports camera. This time, the lenses that are being released are anything but sports lenses!

This is why I just don't understand their intentions. Surely when you release a camera body and lenses you should release a system. I would have thought at the very least they would update the 150-450 or do a 200-600 sports lens?

Has anyone else felt this frustration with the Pentax eco-system?
I don't understand why anyone finds this worrisome. At all
07-17-2021, 12:50 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtkeller Quote
It’s also illustrative to evaluate the 150-450 on the K-3 iii, where the AF improvements in the body make it an even better lens.

The roadmap spot I’m watching is the DFA 70ish to 300ish. I love my 55-300PLM, but it’s too slow at the long end to give good subject separation for sports, especially with the TC. I’m likely dreaming to hope for a zoom that’s any faster than f/5.6 at 300mm, but still that third of a stop (especially if tack sharp wide open at 300mm, which is not always the PLM’s strong suit) should help.
A 70-300mm f/4 would be quite something to have. AFAIK not even the vast reanges of Canon and Nikon has one. It would be too big, heavy and expensive for the prosumer market. Pros pack primes (mostly).

To tide you over, Pentax has done some very nice 300mm primes. Not versatile enough? Might lose the shot at a sport event while chaging lenses? Then you need a second body. GAS is real. Sorry, I know I am not helping.

07-17-2021, 02:49 AM   #50
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I don't know that the DFA 150-450 is due for an update. It was released in 2015 which really isn't that long ago. Is the issue with it something optically or simply length -- you want to get to 600mm?

I sort of doubt that Pentax is going to release a super telephoto at this point. They have a lot of other lenses to focus on right now. The DFA 21 limited, DFA *24 f1.4, DFA 70-300 variable aperture zoom, and an updated DA *50-135 PLM are all lenses that come to mind as being more "bread and butter" lenses for the average photographer than releasing a lens that goes to 600mm. I think Pentax believes they have super telephoto covered adequately for the time being. They probably never sold a bunch of copies of the 600mm f4, back in the day, or more recently, the DA 560 and they just don't see releasing a three to four thousand dollar lenses as helping their bottom line very much.

The K-3 III is not a mistake. Many people other than wildlife shooters appreciate faster autofocus, eye autofocus through an OVF, and faster frame rates. But you certainly can do birding with the K-3 III too -- just browse Post your K3 iii pictures. - PentaxForums.com
07-17-2021, 05:01 AM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
A 70-300mm f/4 would be quite something to have. AFAIK not even the vast reanges of Canon and Nikon has one. It would be too big, heavy and expensive for the prosumer market. Pros pack primes (mostly).
Yeah, I haven’t seen anyone offering an f/4 version of that focal range, so it’s pretty much out of the question. I will disagree with pros packing mostly primes for sports. If they’re only bringing one body, most of what I’ve read and watched suggests a zoom is what they have so they can deal with action close and far. With two bodies, then yes, you’ll get one prime at a focal length appropriate for the sport and one complementary zoom.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
To tide you over, Pentax has done some very nice 300mm primes. Not versatile enough? Might lose the shot at a sport event while chaging lenses? Then you need a second body. GAS is real. Sorry, I know I am not helping.
The Tamron 70–200 f/2.8 (screwdrive) and the HD DA 1.4x TC actually work quite nicely on the K-3 iii to give a lens that comes up just short of 300mm f/4. I’ve tried the DA*300mm for baseball, and the number of places one can use it are very small and generally offer a vantage point at only one part of the action. I did hang onto my K-70 when I got my K-3 iii in part because of sports shooting. I probably will eventually break down and buy the 150–450 and then pair it with something more in the normal zoom or slightly longer than normal zoom range on the K-70 for when action gets too close for 150.
07-17-2021, 05:54 AM - 1 Like   #52
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Reading the varied desires, dislikes, opinions, and complaints about "Pentax" in this thread, demonstrates very effectively(at least to me) why
Pentax cannot possibly please everyone ; any product program is a compromise and an amalgam - forced by real physical, monetary, and visionary constraints. JMHO.

07-17-2021, 07:11 AM - 1 Like   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by DonV Quote
Reading the varied desires, dislikes, opinions, and complaints about "Pentax" in this thread, demonstrates very effectively(at least to me) why
Pentax cannot possibly please everyone ; any product program is a compromise and an amalgam - forced by real physical, monetary, and visionary constraints. JMHO.
Quite so: impossible to please everyone with a limited R&D budget (as a consequence of a limited market share). But for me, the somehow slow R&D cycle is pretty much enough. I don't want to update my DSLR body every or every other year. I'd rather play about 5 to 6 years with the same body shooting at least 50'000 pics with it. Though in fact, I have three bodies at the moment, of which the oldest (K-5) was bought 2nd hand seven years ago (to pair with my first K-5 bought 2012). The optimum for me might be having two bodies, one of which could be updated every 3-4 years, giving a lifecycle of 6-8 years per body (in my hands).

The lenses make a different story. The best ones are "forever" , aren't they? For performance reasons (like AF), I might be ready to update a lens about in 6 - 8 years though. By now, I only have updated lenses for a certain purpose in order to get better image quality or (sometimes) larger aperture. Otherwise my selection of lenses has only been increasing - but that should really stop some day
07-17-2021, 03:04 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by GordonZA Quote
What is confusing is releasing this body then releasing the 16-50mm update. Great lens but not the kind of lens you would expect with this body?
I think they are filling holes with updating lenses like the 16-50. The old version isn't particularly fast focusing, is criticized for being soft wide open, and is notorious for SDM issues. The range is bread and butter stuff, so I was really happy to see that this was a high priority. They've got the 55-300 PLM and 150-450, so a good quality telephoto for the sports side is already there. The DA* 11-18 has been out a bit, so the wide side is covered, but the day to day default lens was lacking.
07-18-2021, 12:44 PM   #55
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We must consider, that Pentax has become a very small company. They can do only one step after the next, and they still have three fields: APS, FF, and MF. FF got the very good 50mm and 85mm star lenses, APS now got the K3M3 and the appropriate 16-50mm star lens in the same year. I am pleased, as this shows that Pentax is still investing. Only the MF seems to be neglected. Perhaps they were fully occupied with the mentioned parts in APC and MF.


BR, Nuftur
07-19-2021, 08:32 AM - 2 Likes   #56
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I personally don't get Nikon, Canon, Minolta (oh sorry, Sony I guess), etc. In fact, about 20 years ago I stopped even reading anything about them as it seemed they were becoming more about marketing instead of engineering. That is a solid business model in today's consumerism, it works and makes them a lot of money, just not my money.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I've always seen Pentax as an engineering firm first, everything else comes after that. I seriously doubt Pentax even really considers a "system" as mentioned in this thread, they have their past and current lens roadmap, and release camera bodies when they are ready to. It seems like common sense to me. I mean sports photography was fantastic long before modern speedy auto focus, the best sports pictures ever are not recent.

It reminds me a bit of story about Fuji Heavy Industries/Subaru in the early 90s where they found themselves with a substantial leftover budget for the year. Marketing was their least funded department, but as engineering is their priority that surplus budget naturally went there instead. Many companies would never consider such a thing!

After picking the K mount and investing in it's star lineup over the years, I pick up a new body to go with them every 7-10 years. I see the quality glass as the investment, not the technology changes in camera bodies. Granted I'm not your average target market for the industry, but I bet I'm closer to being Pentax's average customer.

Of course, that is just my humble opinion, and I very well could be wrong!
07-19-2021, 08:48 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by GordonZA Quote
Hi All,

It's been a long time since I posted anything on here but do come along and read the posts and look at all the amazing pictures every now and then.

The reason for the title of the post is that I just don't get the philosophy behind Pentax when they release a camera.

Just before the K1 was released I got info from the South African distributor that the 150-450mm was about to be launched and I thought at the time, fantastic, if they are creating that kind of lens along with the 70-200 it must mean that the K1 will be Pentax's answer to the various sports bodies that were out at the time. Then when they put the camera out, it turned out to be a strictly landscape type camera not suited to fast action.

Now fast forward to 2021 and they have just released the awesome K3iii which is undoubtedly meant to be a sports camera. This time, the lenses that are being released are anything but sports lenses!

This is why I just don't understand their intentions. Surely when you release a camera body and lenses you should release a system. I would have thought at the very least they would update the 150-450 or do a 200-600 sports lens?

Has anyone else felt this frustration with the Pentax eco-system?
Just in case Pentax reads this message board:
The perfect move would be to have now the sensor in place on the K 3 Mk III in a K1 Mk III
At this stage, I just hope that the price increase between the K3 versions would not translate proportionnally to the transition to a new K1 version
But we need the sensor for full frame addicts as well
(I use 2 K1 Mk1 and 1 K3 Mk1 bodies)
Cheers
07-19-2021, 09:13 AM   #58
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I dont either but if they gave me a k1 with the new AF I would be happy! lol
07-19-2021, 09:25 AM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
I agree. I bought a new Sigma 150-500...on my K5 ASPC the 35mm equivalent is somewhere around 775 mm. I have a K1, but I use my smaller ASPC sensor K5...for the extra reach...some 275mm.

I take pix of Owls, Pelicans, etc...large birds like that...BIF, stationary and I've never felt the need for a longer reach than my Sigma provides...on the K5.

I too am frustrated. I treated myself to a sigma 150-500mm as a retirement present to myself.
I’ve never been happy with the results. The staff at my go to store matched it to my K 50 as I wanted to take pictures of birds. Reading your email I think the K50 just doesn’t support the K50. In the last year I have struggled with dark exposures when starting up the camera. It’s a common fault and yet Pentax hasn’t recalled the cameras. I’m totally disillusioned with Pentax. Apparently they used cheap components for my K50 and several others in that range.
07-19-2021, 11:13 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by suzyq Quote
I too am frustrated. I treated myself to a sigma 150-500mm as a retirement present to myself.
I’ve never been happy with the results. The staff at my go to store matched it to my K 50 as I wanted to take pictures of birds. Reading your email I think the K50 just doesn’t support the K50. In the last year I have struggled with dark exposures when starting up the camera. It’s a common fault and yet Pentax hasn’t recalled the cameras. I’m totally disillusioned with Pentax. Apparently they used cheap components for my K50 and several others in that range.
I've only used my K5 with my 150-500.

When I bought it new, in 2011, it was the top of the line for Pentax...magnesium body alloy shell, water resistant, stainless steel frame I believe. It's been a good camera (touch wood), almost 10 years old. Initially I had some trouble with it freezing and it was under warranty. I sent it in to Pentax Canada (I'm a Canuck) and they repaired it well and I've had no issues since then...and we're talking a decade.

I also have a K10D (bought new in 2007) and it was also the top of the line then. No issues and last time I checked , a few years ago, I had more than 60,000 shutter actuations on it. My K-1 bought new in 2017 had a funny loose sound when I shook it. Sent it back to Pentax Canada, they repaired it and all has been fine. It was top of the line too.

I've been happy with my Pentax equipment, and I use it regularly.

I've generally been happy with Pentax, and I've had one (Pentax S1a) which I bought new in 1969. Over 50 years.

As far as my Sigma 150-500, I like it. I shoot pix of birds, but mostly big birds, such as American White Pelicans (I'm near where they breed), Owls....Great Grey, Great Horned, Northern Hawk , Snowy White, Barred, etc.

I've got some pretty good pix of these birds in flight , perched and sitting on rocks (Pelicans) and I find the Sigma gets some real sharp pix. It is a heavy combo, the Sigma and the K5...but I'm big guy, 6' 3", 245 lbs. so I may not notice the weight as much as a smaller person.

I use certain settings...usually set the ISO 400-1600, mostly 800. I use aperture preferred, use an F stop of between F 9 to F 11...as the depth of field of a super telephoto is narrow and birds can move out of that range fairly easily. My shutter speed is over 1000th of a second, I subscribe to the practice of if I'm shooting a 500 mm lens I use about 1/1000th or faster. I want clarity in my pix and these settings seem to work for me. I use the Sigma only during the daylight hours, as it is not a fast lens, like an F 2.8.

I take a lot of pix and I practiced a lot at a bird feeder that attracted a lot of Chickadees..small, fast songbirds. I figured when I could get a sharp pics of these little fast flyers, then a pelican or an owl would be a piece of cake.

Not ever pix is perfect, but I'm happy with the number of keepers following these methods. Also I use the Pentax Shake reduction, not the Sigma and I usually use continuous auto focus and always try to aim for the eye of the subject, If I get the eye in focus, I find the rest of the subject is usually clear.

Hope this is of help to you.

Les
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