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12-03-2008, 06:11 AM   #1
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Is there anyone here.......

that works for Pentax or with them on development. I have an idea that I want to speak to someone about with someone. It will make our life a lot easier when downloading pictures.

Thanks in advance.
Suzu

12-03-2008, 06:21 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Suzu Quote
that works for Pentax or with them on development. I have an idea that I want to speak to someone about with someone. It will make our life a lot easier when downloading pictures.

Thanks in advance.
Suzu
Put a patent on that idea before you talk to anyone. It might make your retirement a little more comfortable.
12-03-2008, 06:51 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Put a patent on that idea before you talk to anyone. It might make your retirement a little more comfortable.
I've searched online at the US Patent Office and it looked like you need a lawyer and lots of explanation in great detail of what you are building. So I didnt think it also encompassed ideas.....I'll look some more i guess Thanks
12-03-2008, 07:02 AM   #4
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Hi Suzu. How are things in Maine?

I believe there is commercial software which helps people prepare patent applications. A quick web search turned up these 2 and there were lots more...

Patent Wizard and Patent Pro

This way if its a good enough idea you can negotiate with Pentax to buy it from your or license it from you. Each path has advantages and disadvantages.

12-03-2008, 08:10 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Hi Suzu. How are things in Maine?

I believe there is commercial software which helps people prepare patent applications. A quick web search turned up these 2 and there were lots more...

Patent Wizard and Patent Pro

This way if its a good enough idea you can negotiate with Pentax to buy it from your or license it from you. Each path has advantages and disadvantages.
Thanks Mike. Things are good up here. And with you? I have contacted a lawyer friend of mine and waiting to hear back from him. I will look at the links you sent above and maybe between those and talking to him I can get this project off the ground. I've been wanting to do this for sometimenow. I fail to see anything online regarding my idea, so I'll move forward now

bye for now
12-03-2008, 08:19 AM   #6
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Suzu,

I speak from experience.

Keep a detailed written record from the time you first concieved your idea. Record every step and conversation including this posting, along the way. Use drawings, however rough, as well as notes.

Then speak to a TRUSTED lawyer, your present one if you have one - not some unknown "Patent Lawyer or "Patent Agent"."

If your lawyer cannot do the necessary work ask him to reccommend someone who can.

It can be a lengthy, drawn out, costly process but your lawyer can better advise you.

Obtaining a patent is a complicated procedure that is definitely not a "Do It Yourself" exercise.

Don't give up or become discouraged.

Best wishes.

Mickey

Last edited by mickeyobe; 12-03-2008 at 08:27 AM.
12-03-2008, 07:30 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by mickeyobe Quote
Suzu,

I speak from experience.

Keep a detailed written record from the time you first concieved your idea. Record every step and conversation including this posting, along the way. Use drawings, however rough, as well as notes.

Then speak to a TRUSTED lawyer, your present one if you have one - not some unknown "Patent Lawyer or "Patent Agent"."

If your lawyer cannot do the necessary work ask him to reccommend someone who can.

It can be a lengthy, drawn out, costly process but your lawyer can better advise you.

Obtaining a patent is a complicated procedure that is definitely not a "Do It Yourself" exercise.

Don't give up or become discouraged.

Best wishes.

Mickey
Thanks Mickey, He gave me the same advice I appreciate the responses here and will proceed with caution and documentation of everything. He is a patent, copyright lawyer so he's well educated and versed in the process.

Thanks again
12-03-2008, 09:17 PM   #8
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I hold around 45 patents and currently have about a dozen PCT applications pending. Fortunately, I work for a $50B company that has a department of patent lawyers that make life simpler in writing and prosecuting cases.

Some things that pop into my mind randomly that you might want to pay attention to, although keep in mind I'm a polymer chemist not a patent attorney.

1) For a camera patent, you'll need to file globally - not just in the US. You can file a PCT case that will cover a group of countries governed by a treaty that allows multiple filings at once - but there will be filing fees all over the world. Also, once a patent is allowed, there are maintenance fees that have to be paid annually (and increase as time goes by). Some countries aren't covered by the PCT treaty and require separate filings.

2) Remember, a patent is not an idea but an invention. For most countries, you have to have working examples to support all of the claims in the patent. In the US, working examples aren't necessary (unless the law has changed recently), but - as I say - a stand alone US patent on camera-related technology might not be worth too much in any case, since cameras are generally built in asia and sold globally.

3) There now is a mechanism called a "provisional" filing, which is pretty cheap - I think it's only about a thousand bucks, but I may be wrong. Provisionals give you the precedence of a filing date but are not considered for a year - a year in which you can decide if the case is worth pursuing or in which you can add new data (as long as they support the original invention and don't represent an entirely new one).

Actually, I love prosecuting cases and sparing with patent examiners (which generally don't allow cases on the first pass, just to see if you're serious). It's like playing chess. Examiners that understand your technology, although capable of sparing back at you, are - in my experience - easier to deal with than ones that don't. You have to not only convince the ignorant* ones that your case is indeed a real invention ("novel and surprising"), but you have to teach them the technology as well.

Anyway, good luck and have fun.

Jer

*Which doesn't mean "stupid". Some examiners are shifted to new technology areas as their careers progress, and it can take a while for them to know an invention when they see it - just as I wouldn't have a clue about the validity of a case involving genetic engineering or electronics.


Last edited by Sailor; 12-03-2008 at 09:23 PM. Reason: striving for clarity
12-05-2008, 11:03 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sailor Quote
I hold around 45 patents and currently have about a dozen PCT applications pending. Fortunately, I work for a $50B company that has a department of patent lawyers that make life simpler in writing and prosecuting cases.
very impressive I'm not so lucky to work for such a company, but am talking with a Patent Lawyer.

QuoteQuote:
Some things that pop into my mind randomly that you might want to pay attention to, although keep in mind I'm a polymer chemist not a patent attorney.

1) For a camera patent, you'll need to file globally - not just in the US. You can file a PCT case that will cover a group of countries governed by a treaty that allows multiple filings at once - but there will be filing fees all over the world. Also, once a patent is allowed, there are maintenance fees that have to be paid annually (and increase as time goes by). Some countries aren't covered by the PCT treaty and require separate filings.

2) Remember, a patent is not an idea but an invention. For most countries, you have to have working examples to support all of the claims in the patent. In the US, working examples aren't necessary (unless the law has changed recently), but - as I say - a stand alone US patent on camera-related technology might not be worth too much in any case, since cameras are generally built in asia and sold globally.

Good idea seeing all the camera companies are foreign!

QuoteQuote:
3) There now is a mechanism called a "provisional" filing, which is pretty cheap - I think it's only about a thousand bucks, but I may be wrong. Provisionals give you the precedence of a filing date but are not considered for a year - a year in which you can decide if the case is worth pursuing or in which you can add new data (as long as they support the original invention and don't represent an entirely new one).
This may be the path the lawyer will suggest for now. I am meeting with him after the holidays.


QuoteQuote:
Actually, I love prosecuting cases and sparing with patent examiners (which generally don't allow cases on the first pass, just to see if you're serious). It's like playing chess. Examiners that understand your technology, although capable of sparing back at you, are - in my experience - easier to deal with than ones that don't. You have to not only convince the ignorant* ones that your case is indeed a real invention ("novel and surprising"), but you have to teach them the technology as well.

Anyway, good luck and have fun.

Jer

*Which doesn't mean "stupid". Some examiners are shifted to new technology areas as their careers progress, and it can take a while for them to know an invention when they see it - just as I wouldn't have a clue about the validity of a case involving genetic engineering or electronics.

Thanks for taking the time and explaining things out here, it's a great help. It's hard to work on something in secrecy, not knowing if people willl even welcome the idea, but I'll stick t my guns and work on this the best way possible and get it protected.

Thansk Again, Suzu
12-05-2008, 12:41 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Suzu Quote
that works for Pentax or with them on development. I have an idea that I want to speak to someone about with someone. It will make our life a lot easier when downloading pictures.

Thanks in advance.
Suzu
I still have connections with the Executives at Pentax/Hoya. I STRONGLY suggest that you protect your idea with the Library of Congress and if you can afford it, submit the patent. After that, we can talk business.

You have my contact info and e-mail info on my profile page.

Ben
12-05-2008, 12:45 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Suzu Quote
Thanks Mike. Things are good up here. And with you? I have contacted a lawyer friend of mine and waiting to hear back from him. I will look at the links you sent above and maybe between those and talking to him I can get this project off the ground. I've been wanting to do this for sometimenow. I fail to see anything online regarding my idea, so I'll move forward now

bye for now
In any discussions with lawyers as well, ask if you can have a NDA or a MDNA. Non Disclosure Agreement or a Mutual Non Disclosure Agreement. I am doing very high end important business with NOKIA and we signed a 5 year NDA that protects both parties. Nothing should be shared without this protection. A lawyer will say that in their space all info is confidential, but I don't trust most lawyers.

Ben
12-05-2008, 01:11 PM   #12
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aside from what ever legal issues, if you have a suggestion for pentax sent it to their tech support.

Some issues get passed on, but I have offered them for free several ideas on simple software changes to make their product better, and most have all fallen on deaf ears. In fact, none have gone into cameras that were current production at the time the problem or suggestion was raised, some have been put into later models however.
12-05-2008, 01:25 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
aside from what ever legal issues, if you have a suggestion for pentax sent it to their tech support.

Some issues get passed on, but I have offered them for free several ideas on simple software changes to make their product better, and most have all fallen on deaf ears. In fact, none have gone into cameras that were current production at the time the problem or suggestion was raised, some have been put into later models however.
Are you a masochist? No offense, but "Grey Matter" is the most valuable asset there is. I won't go in to it too deeply, but way back, I designed the first laser controlled AF system. By the time I could afford the patent attorneys, i.e. 3 years later a camera company had only received their patent three weeks earlier. i.e. Three years after my original idea I hired an engineer in San Diego and spent a fortune on attorneys, as well the mechanical system used to manufacture it. Had I moved more quickly, I would have owned the patent. My lawyer suggested, an applied patent, as it was my original idea, but I let it go. The company was Pentax and that was early in 1987. I have a box filled with documents, letters and the proof. Get the "IDEA" patented or get a copyright.

I am involved in another new "concept" that is being presented to NOKIA and I am protected to the MAXIMUM now. Don't give it away...ever!!!
12-05-2008, 01:30 PM   #14
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Suz,
At the very least, write down you ideas and mail them to yourself via certified mail and don't open the letter. Save it as date proof if needed.
12-05-2008, 04:47 PM   #15
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Thanks to all of you for posting and sharing your ideas about this, I will put them to good use and to quote the 11th ammendment, cover thy arse.
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