Battery Shelf Life

**Derek** · 10-14-2021, 09:55 AM

Hi All.

I just received a pair of Ricoh-Pentax D-Li90's from a reputable bricks-and-mortar store in western Canada. The manufacture dates are 202012 and 201811. Now there isn't likely to be a problem with the one that's about a year old, but the other one is just about three years old. I was under the impression that the life span of these batteries can be around three years, and it's possible for them to degrade while in an unused condition.

So, is this some unreasonably old stock that I should be sending back? When other people receive batteries, how old are they when they arrive? Should I be squawking at this merchant, with whom I've had decent dealings with to date?

I'm interested in your thoughts.

Derek

bertwert · 10-14-2021, 09:59 AM

I don't know what the expectation is for buying new batteries - but I have one marked 201210 that still seems to work just as well. Mind you, I don't claim expertise in batteries and I haven't done any battery rundown tests taking videos or pictures or something - but I haven't noticed it running out any quicker now that it's older... So I wouldn't worry about it being 3 years old if it works just fine.

**baro-nite** · 10-14-2021, 10:10 AM

I bought my K-5 in late 2012, when it was a discontinued model, so the battery was presumably several months old at the least. I also bought a 3rd-party backup battery. The backup battery failed long ago, but the OEM K-5 battery is still going strong. I use that battery and my K-1 (purchased 2017) batteries alternately in either camera, and still get excellent charge life out of both of them. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

Not a Number · 10-14-2021, 10:12 AM

I bought a NOS (new old stock) Minolta/Konica battery that has been out of production 6-8 years when I acquired it. Performs to within specs (charging time, approximate number of shots etc.).

I don't think you have to worry about either of them.

vector · 10-14-2021, 10:14 AM - **1 Like**

I had a similar experience buying new D-Li90 batteries that came stamped from 2014 and 2015 (bought in 2019 and 2020). They have been just fine. I am not a battery expert but I believe lithium batteries are rated for a number of charge cycles and are not really impacted by sitting on a shelf in terms of their long term life. The first charge up usually doesn't last too well after sitting but subsequent charges hold up just fine.

**UncleVanya** · 10-14-2021, 10:54 AM

If the battery was charged to the recommended 30-50% before being sealed up it is likely totally fine. As far as I know that’s standard practice.

**Derek** · 10-14-2021, 11:53 AM

Thanks to everybody! I shall quit fretting about things and instead think about always having a warm spare battery this winter.

Paul the Sunman · 10-14-2021, 02:16 PM

My oldest is Jan 2011, and seems just fine.

**AstroDave** · 10-14-2021, 02:38 PM

My 2011, 2013, and 2016 D-Li90 batteries are just about as good as new (but they've all been cycled many times since their youth): Battery Capacity / Discharge Measurements - Pentax & Canon OEM versus Generic - PentaxForums.com

Yours are much newer to begin with - I suspect they will be just fine. If there is a window on possible return, I'd run them through a couple of charge/discharge cycles and see if you get about the expected number of shots.

**DWS1** · 10-14-2021, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

If the battery was charged to the recommended 30-50% before being sealed up it is likely totally fine. As far as I know that’s standard practice.

How does one determine if a battery is charged at 30%, 50%, 80%, 100%, or any other % ?

**UncleVanya** · 10-14-2021, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by DWS1

How does one determine if a battery is charged at 30%, 50%, 80%, 100%, or any other % ?

With math. You use a known charging current for a known period of time.

biz-engineer · 10-14-2021, 10:20 PM

Battery from 2012, it's old, I would return it and ask for a new one not from 2012. While a 2012 battery may be working fine, the capacity won't be at its best, especially for the coming years of use.

Ishpuini · 10-14-2021, 11:29 PM

I have 8 D-Li90 batteries (for 3 cameras, two of which gripped), the oldest one being from 2010, the most recent ones 2020. FWIW, I do not observe any difference in performance between them yet.

biz-engineer · 10-15-2021, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by Ishpuini

FWIW, I do not observe any difference in performance between them yet.

It hard to tell any difference without measuring the capacity. I switch off the auto-power-off on my camera fully charge a battery and insert it, let the battery discharge. My new batteries give 6 hours from full charge to full discharge. My 2015 battery give ~ 4h50 discharge time. Hardly noticeable on mixed mode casual shooting ("I do not observe a difference"). But the 6 years old battery has about 20~25% less capacity than the new ones. The question is, even if a 2012 battery works fine now, how much capacity will remain 5 years from now. IMO, they should sell 8 years old Li-Ion batteries as new, that's just wrong, knowing that Li-Ion battery wear out with time even if unused.

kypfer · 10-15-2021, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by Bob 256

You might be confusing Li-I batteries with Lead Acid which was the technology back in the days of mini-disc players. I have a portable Sony full sized disc player which used a thin lead acid pack that sat beneath the player. Lead acid would deteriorate significantly if left uncharged or if they were discharged deeply a number of times. They were best kept at full charge and even then, they would self-discharge over time if not connected to a float charger.

My mistake, they were NiMH, I've deleted my post

10-14-2021, 09:55 AM	#1
Derek Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Terrace, BC, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 122	Battery Shelf Life Hi All. I just received a pair of Ricoh-Pentax D-Li90's from a reputable bricks-and-mortar store in western Canada. The manufacture dates are 202012 and 201811. Now there isn't likely to be a problem with the one that's about a year old, but the other one is just about three years old. I was under the impression that the life span of these batteries can be around three years, and it's possible for them to degrade while in an unused condition. So, is this some unreasonably old stock that I should be sending back? When other people receive batteries, how old are they when they arrive? Should I be squawking at this merchant, with whom I've had decent dealings with to date? I'm interested in your thoughts. Derek

10-15-2021, 12:30 AM	#14
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,237	Originally posted by Ishpuini FWIW, I do not observe any difference in performance between them yet. It hard to tell any difference without measuring the capacity. I switch off the auto-power-off on my camera fully charge a battery and insert it, let the battery discharge. My new batteries give 6 hours from full charge to full discharge. My 2015 battery give ~ 4h50 discharge time. Hardly noticeable on mixed mode casual shooting ("I do not observe a difference"). But the 6 years old battery has about 20~25% less capacity than the new ones. The question is, even if a 2012 battery works fine now, how much capacity will remain 5 years from now. IMO, they should sell 8 years old Li-Ion batteries as new, that's just wrong, knowing that Li-Ion battery wear out with time even if unused. Last edited by biz-engineer; 10-15-2021 at 12:35 AM.

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10-14-2021, 09:59 AM	#2
bertwert Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Golden, BC Posts: 15,172	I don't know what the expectation is for buying new batteries - but I have one marked 201210 that still seems to work just as well. Mind you, I don't claim expertise in batteries and I haven't done any battery rundown tests taking videos or pictures or something - but I haven't noticed it running out any quicker now that it's older... So I wouldn't worry about it being 3 years old if it works just fine.

10-14-2021, 10:10 AM	#3
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,295	I bought my K-5 in late 2012, when it was a discontinued model, so the battery was presumably several months old at the least. I also bought a 3rd-party backup battery. The backup battery failed long ago, but the OEM K-5 battery is still going strong. I use that battery and my K-1 (purchased 2017) batteries alternately in either camera, and still get excellent charge life out of both of them. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

10-14-2021, 10:12 AM	#4
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	I bought a NOS (new old stock) Minolta/Konica battery that has been out of production 6-8 years when I acquired it. Performs to within specs (charging time, approximate number of shots etc.). I don't think you have to worry about either of them.

10-14-2021, 10:14 AM - 1 Like	#5
vector Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Alberta Posts: 713	I had a similar experience buying new D-Li90 batteries that came stamped from 2014 and 2015 (bought in 2019 and 2020). They have been just fine. I am not a battery expert but I believe lithium batteries are rated for a number of charge cycles and are not really impacted by sitting on a shelf in terms of their long term life. The first charge up usually doesn't last too well after sitting but subsequent charges hold up just fine.

10-14-2021, 10:54 AM	#6
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,445	If the battery was charged to the recommended 30-50% before being sealed up it is likely totally fine. As far as I know that’s standard practice.

10-14-2021, 11:53 AM	#7
Derek Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Terrace, BC, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 122 Original Poster	Thanks to everybody! I shall quit fretting about things and instead think about always having a warm spare battery this winter.

10-14-2021, 02:16 PM	#8
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	My oldest is Jan 2011, and seems just fine.

10-14-2021, 02:38 PM	#9
AstroDave Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 1,644	My 2011, 2013, and 2016 D-Li90 batteries are just about as good as new (but they've all been cycled many times since their youth): Battery Capacity / Discharge Measurements - Pentax & Canon OEM versus Generic - PentaxForums.com Yours are much newer to begin with - I suspect they will be just fine. If there is a window on possible return, I'd run them through a couple of charge/discharge cycles and see if you get about the expected number of shots.

10-14-2021, 06:57 PM	#10
DWS1 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 1,169	Originally posted by UncleVanya If the battery was charged to the recommended 30-50% before being sealed up it is likely totally fine. As far as I know that’s standard practice. How does one determine if a battery is charged at 30%, 50%, 80%, 100%, or any other % ?

10-14-2021, 09:23 PM	#11
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,445	Originally posted by DWS1 How does one determine if a battery is charged at 30%, 50%, 80%, 100%, or any other % ? With math. You use a known charging current for a known period of time.

10-14-2021, 10:20 PM	#12
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,237	Battery from 2012, it's old, I would return it and ask for a new one not from 2012. While a 2012 battery may be working fine, the capacity won't be at its best, especially for the coming years of use.

10-14-2021, 11:29 PM	#13
Ishpuini Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,727	I have 8 D-Li90 batteries (for 3 cameras, two of which gripped), the oldest one being from 2010, the most recent ones 2020. FWIW, I do not observe any difference in performance between them yet.

10-15-2021, 02:20 AM	#15
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,595	Originally posted by Bob 256 You might be confusing Li-I batteries with Lead Acid which was the technology back in the days of mini-disc players. I have a portable Sony full sized disc player which used a thin lead acid pack that sat beneath the player. Lead acid would deteriorate significantly if left uncharged or if they were discharged deeply a number of times. They were best kept at full charge and even then, they would self-discharge over time if not connected to a float charger. My mistake, they were NiMH, I've deleted my post