[UncleVanya]

@gatorguy thanks for that clarification- I’m sure it will help the original poster determine what makes the most sense for them. They mentioned lenses like the 24-70 and 70-200 f2.8 - if they go that route would your answer be different? The wide end seems a bit narrow on crop at 24mm or am I just worrying over nothing?

[gatorguy]

@gatorguy thanks for that clarification- I’m sure it will help the original poster determine what makes the most sense for them. They mentioned lenses like the 24-70 and 70-200 f2.8 - if they go that route would your answer be different? The wide end seems a bit narrow on crop at 24mm or am I just worrying over nothing?

The answer depends on the event I guess. I may shoot on a big stage this time, and a small one the next, then in a bar after that. Some are for fun or self-promo, and others are paid. At an all day multiple band concert event contracted earlier in the year I used the DFA70-200 and FA85 on the K1, and Sigma 17-50 with a few from the 35 Art and 10-17 fisheye thrown in on a K-70. Of course since I was hired to be there I could shoot pretty much any position I wanted outside of getting up on stage. Close in, edge of the stage was A-OK, and artists definitely played to the camera. Most times that is not an option if you're there as a guest.

Most recently was a paid promo shoot for a newish band and done on a bar floor. Most of that ended up as wide-angle stuff on crop, with a few from the DFA 50 on the K1, but the expensive stuff was used very judiciously, being in a rowdy environment dodging drinkers and dancers and waitresses with glasses. The K1 only came out at breaks or when the floor was clear. I didn't even take the K3III to that one, opting for the K70 so as not to cry too much in front of grown men if it hit the floor. In that venue 24mm on a crop is not nearly wide enough IMO, and the 70-200 on any camera in a packed room is near useless. Ya gotta get close to the band or end up getting blocked by patrons.

[vector]

So I still don't understand the K-70 recommendation if buffer is so important, given its 10 frame raw buffer... I get risking a less expensive camera in the crowded environment, but even the K-1 at 17 raw frames has more buffer, and it has 50 if you shoot it in apsc mode. What am I missing, does it just clear the buffer faster?

[gatorguy]

So I still don't understand the K-70 recommendation if buffer is so important, given its 10 frame raw buffer... I get risking a less expensive camera in the crowded environment, but even the K-1 at 17 raw frames has more buffer, and it has 50 if you shoot it in apsc mode. What am I missing, does it just clear the buffer faster?

It takes a few seconds, I think 15, to clear the full buffer on a K-70. It's a little more than twice as long on a K1.

EDIT: Here you go: "14 seconds after a burst of RAW frames and 16 seconds after a max-length RAW+JPEG burst. The K-70 does however let you change settings, take additional shots or view just-shot photos while the buffer is clearing"

The K1 is "31 seconds after a max-length burst of RAW files, and 34 seconds after a max-length RAW+JPEG burst"

Pentaxforums testing goes into more detail if you're interested.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/pentax-k-70-review/performance-burst-mode.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/pentax-k-1-review/performance-burst-mode.html

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Last edited by gatorguy; 10-18-2021 at 03:55 PM.

[vector]

The K-70 does however let you change settings, take additional shots or view just-shot photos while the buffer is clearing

This is probably the key right there, the ability interact with the camera while it clears. Thanks for testing. Otherwise those buffer clearing numbers are pretty close for per frame clearing time, maybe slightly slower on the K-1 given the much larger files. Makes sense then.

[gatorguy]

This is probably the key right there, the ability interact with the camera while it clears. Thanks for testing. Otherwise those buffer clearing numbers are pretty close for per frame clearing time, maybe slightly slower on the K-1 given the much larger files. Makes sense then.

Yes, the K-70 allows me to continue shooting with a full buffer, but at only a frame a second.

(Full disclosure, I knew I could keep shooting albeit slower, but had to read the PF review to find the "at 1FPS" spec. I would have said it was a little faster than that if I hadn't. I love these detailed staff reviews here!)

[vector]

Ok, so I just did some testing on my K1, raw only. I can also fill the buffer and go to 1 shot/sec and still review files and shoot some more while the card writes. In FF mode the playback has a bit of delay if the card is writing but it does do it, and lets you continue shooting again quickly. In APSC mode it can go for quite a long time, and reviewing shots comes up much quicker. I didn't really clock it but I fired off 103 shots in about 2 minutes with a mix of burst shooting, reviewing, shooting some more etc... It works pretty well. So I guess I don't credit the K-70 for being anything special here and if buffer depth and camera interaction while writing are really important then a K-1 in APSC mode wins hands down - even over a K3iii. 15mp is still plenty and if you need more then you go back to FF mode and it's there.

[gatorguy]

Ok, so I just did some testing on my K1, raw only. I can also fill the buffer and go to 1 shot/sec and still review files and shoot some more while the card writes. In FF mode the playback has a bit of delay if the card is writing but it does do it, and lets you continue shooting again quickly. In APSC mode it can go for quite a long time, and reviewing shots comes up much quicker. I didn't really clock it but I fired off 103 shots in about 2 minutes with a mix of burst shooting, reviewing, shooting some more etc... It works pretty well. So I guess I don't credit the K-70 for being anything special here and if buffer depth and camera interaction while writing are really important then a K-1 in APSC mode wins hands down - even over a K3iii. 15mp is still plenty and if you need more then you go back to FF mode and it's there.

I don't think I've ever shot my K1 in crop mode. If needed I use a crop camera with quite a bit more resolution since I very VERY often do additional cropping in post. Losing 10mb before ever getting to that point would prevent much more than some social posts for too much of it.

I mentioned earlier others may choose differently than I do and if crop mode on the K1 is perfectly acceptable for what you need it for then that's the camera for you and concerts. It works. For me I'd still take one of my crops rather than the K1 if I could take only a single camera.

EDIT: In a K1 test just now I got 9 shots in hi-speed burst, a second or two delay before a 10th, then nothing permitted for about 3 or 4 seconds. After that it does let me resume at about a shot a second, roughly the same speed as the K70 while its clearing its buffer. I guess with the several second delay before even single shots could be taken I hadn't noticed. Thanks for the mention. As long as there's no need for another burst in the next 40 seconds or so it would do the job.

EDIT2: The K3III shoots at a far faster rate than the K1, an impressive 9+ FPS (the K1 hits less than 5) with a burst of 37 frames before it starts to slow down. Even then it allows shooting twice as fast as the K1 and clears twice as fast too, in 15 seconds.
My K-70 is closer to the K1 at 9 shots before the buffer fills but with no delay in continuing to shoot a frame a second and clearing in half the time as the K1. Again thanks for prompting me to check to find the two cameras are closer in burst speed than I had realized, but the K70 still clearing in half the time..

[vector]

I don't think I've ever shot my K1 in crop mode. If needed I use a crop camera with quite a bit more resolution since I very VERY often do additional cropping in post. Losing 10mb before ever getting to that point would prevent much more than some social posts for too much of it.I mentioned earlier others may choose differently than I do and if crop mode on the K1 is perfectly acceptable for what you need it for then that's the camera for you and concerts. It works. For me I'd still take one of my crops rather than the K1 if I could take only a single camera.

I don't shoot concerts so I have no preference one way or another here. FPS and buffer were called out as primary challenges so I am just pointing out that if that is the case then the K1 crop mode is a beast. Having graduated from the K100D to K5 to K3 to K1, and still owning all of them I definitely understand the desire for more megapixels and the ability to crop more, but again if higher resolution is also needed, the K1 FF offers 12mp more than a K70 and a whopping 21 more than crop mode K1. The sweet spot here is probably 24-26mp APSC but all these options are viable depending on which trade offs are valued most.

[gatorguy]

I don't shoot concerts so I have no preference one way or another here. FPS and buffer were called out as primary challenges so I am just pointing out that if that is the case then the K1 crop mode is a beast. Having graduated from the K100D to K5 to K3 to K1, and still owning all of them I definitely understand the desire for more megapixels and the ability to crop more, but again if higher resolution is also needed, the K1 FF offers 12mp more than a K70 and a whopping 21 more than crop mode K1. The sweet spot here is probably 24-26mp APSC but all these options are viable depending on which trade offs are valued most.

I LOVE my K1, which accompanies me on every single event as one of the two cameras carried on the hip. You make some excellent points.

[vector]

The K3III shoots at a far faster rate than the K1, an impressive 9+ FPS (the K1 hits less than 5) with a burst of 37 frames before it starts to slow down. Even then it allows shooting twice as fast as the K1 and clears twice as fast too, in 15 seconds.

Yeah the K3iii shoots faster for sure, but as far as buffer goes I can only reference the specs as I don't have one to test with. According the specs the K1 in crop mode has a deeper buffer than the K3iii, K1 FF certainly not. If you are shooting RAW+jpeg then there are other factors at play like what in camera corrections are turned on. I'm sure jpeg processing time differs from camera to camera too.

[leekil]

The pros for the K-70 -- smaller camera, crop factor gets you closer with your lenses, and I guess the buffer clears faster (I don't have one). K-1 pro - better image quality, better low-light, allows you to get wider with your lenses, better battery life. Also if it makes sense for you, you could shoot in crop mode on the K-1 and get faster shooting rates with a 15MP image. Depends on which of the mentioned features is more important to you.

[normhead]

Yeah the K3iii shoots faster for sure, but as far as buffer goes I can only reference the specs as I don't have one to test with. According the specs the K1 in crop mode has a deeper buffer than the K3iii, K1 FF certainly not. If you are shooting RAW+jpeg then there are other factors at play like what in camera corrections are turned on. I'm sure jpeg processing time differs from camera to camera too.

As someone who uses the original K-3 and K-1, I've many times given up on "ultimate IQ" (which many times is unrecognizable from APS-c IQ) and gone back to the K-3 for ease of use.

I'd recommend a used K-3ii with it's 23 shot buffer for raw for this kind of activity. You can fill the buffer, but you usually have to try. I have had very few times when I ran out of buffer with the K-3. It's happened many times with the K-1. I don't even care what the specs are, I'm talking about my own personal usage.

[Serkevan]

And you seriously believe such arguments? Than you could try shooting concerts and see for your self if the arguments remain valid or not, or just arguments to justify a change of ambassadorship contract (from Pentax to Canon+Tamron). Personally I shot a number of Jazz concerts and other concerts with the K1, and I never had an issue with FPS and buffer, never.

Interestingly, I've shot two live performances (as an amateur) and those two situations make up two out of three times I've ever hit the buffer limit on the K-1. Go figure .
If there's dancing or energetic movement on stage you absolutely want the frame rate.

That said, I'd probably still consider the K-1 because I have images where I was shooting ISO 6400 that look great at A4 size.

[vector]

As someone who uses the original K-3 and K-1, I've many times given up on "ultimate IQ" (which many times is unrecognizable from APS-c IQ) and gone back to the K-3 for ease of use.I'd recommend a used K-3ii with it's 23 shot buffer for raw for this kind of activity. You can fill the buffer, but you usually have to try. I have had very few times when I ran out of buffer with the K-3. It's happened many times with the K-1. I don't even care what the specs are, I'm talking about my own personal usage.

I'm right there with you Norm, my combo is also an original K3 and K1. K3 for when I want fps and reach, and I generally want to shoot those wildlife or action shots at as low of ISO as I can get, generally under 800 which is why I haven't been able to justify moving to one of the newer APSC bodies with an accelerator. K1 for when I want landscapes and that little bit extra detail and dynamic range. K3 at ISO 100 is no slouch for landscapes though either.

I have experimented a bit recently with my K1 in crop mode which is the only reason I am in this thread, I have no experience or interest in concert shooting. K1 crop mode gets knocked for the 15mp resolution but my experience with it is that it's a cleaner, sharper 15mp than the K5 produced at 16mp. I find that it's actually quite competitive with the 24mp from the K3 when it comes to final image, though in good light at low ISO I think the 24mp still has the edge from the extra resolution. But certainly K1 crop mode is more than good enough for a lot of scenarios. On top of that the buffer that is only adequate for 36mp FF is quite good when shooting 15mp. Since fps and buffer depth came up as critical for concert shooting, I am just making the case that if you want to go with 1 camera the K1 offers great flexibility. Good APSC performance and buffer depth with the option of shooting it FF to eek out that last bit of extra detail.