[junyo]

... IMHO.

I know it's bad form to make a first post a negative one, but here we go. I've shot Pentax since getting a k1000 as my first 'real' camera, yadayadayada, same story as a million other people, and been fairly frustrated with Pentax for the last few years. The lack of pro glass, the lack of a truly pro body, the lack of the bridge and high end P&S cameras to bring casual shooters into the brand... I loved the cameras, but it was starting to get like my brother's Opel; a great car, but eventually got tired of how hard it was to find parts. And now I'm truly pissed, because I want another darn Pentax camera.

I've been looking for an alternative to the K10; something smaller and lighter, but still having the features and control. looked at the G10, pretty much settled on the Lumix LX3. Was in the camera shop, on a whim asked to see the K2000. WTF? Why aren't they selling bodies? Why aren'tt hey pushing this to existing owners? It's larger than either one I was looking at, but not insanely so, and not much larger than a decent bridge camera. It's seriously petite, and while it'll never fit in a shirt pocket, with a 17-50/2.8 it'll go in a purse, or waistpack, or man bag just fine. You really can't appreciate the size/weight difference until it's in your hands. Oh and it's also a friggin 10mp SLR! Which means it's a decent backup/second body if you already have a Pentax SLR. And without the kit lens and flash it would be cheaper than the highend p&s's to boot. So again, WTF? Because despite the fact that I wanted to buy it then and there, you can't buy apart from the kit. i understand that Pentax is marketing this as the upgrade from an P&S camera, that's fine, that's great. They should also be marketing it as a casual camera/second body/bridge alternative to existing owners. It would be a killer solution. As it is, I'm not willing to pay K20 money for the kit, then try and recoup the difference selling off the useless (to me) lens and flash. So a slam dunk sale is lost until the vendors decide to start breaking up kits, or forever if I get the LX3, in which case I'll just wait for the K30 (already decided to pass on the K20).

Rant done. Thanks for listening.

[gnaztee]

I agree, but let me share my story with you: I have the K10D and wanted something more "portable" for certain occasions (like walking around a city on vacation). I got the LX3. Beautiful little compact, takes very nice images. But, I had this nagging voice in the back of my head, saying "why have you spent all that money on good glass (DA 35, DA 70, DA 12-24) and now you're only going to use it sometimes?" When I found the K-m on the ebay for $400 (seems to be a common price from Prodigital2000), it was an easy choice to make the switch. I sold the LX3 to basically cover the exact cost of the K-m (less shipping), and I'm now a much happier camera owner. The DA Ltds. are natural fits, and the IQ is as good as my K10D. So, the old rule may apply here: Better to spend a bit more now and be happy, then spend a bit less, be unhappy, and eventually upgrade anyway, at a cost. Considering the K-m can be had for around $400, it's an equal cost to the LX3 anyway.

Todd

[Mike Cash]

To add to your consternation, here in Japan they do offer them body only.

[rfortson]

Prodigital2000 (via ebay) is selling the body only for under $400.

Personally, I think the kit they're selling is a great way to differentiate themselves from all the other entry kits. Their market is the new dSLR buyers, not the longtime users. That being said, they are missing an opportunity to simultaneously market the K2000 along with a package of small primes (or body only) to their existing user base that's been clamoring for a small dSLR.

I was reading Shutterbug today and they commented on the micro 4/3 offering and mentioned that the K2000 was about the same size and was more capable. They stopped short of recommending one over the other (it was more of a general report from Photokina than a review), but the tone of the comment was clear. The K2000 makes a great, small, second dSLR in the vein of a rangefinder.

[rfortson]

I agree, but let me share my story with you: I have the K10D and wanted something more "portable" for certain occasions (like walking around a city on vacation). I got the LX3. Beautiful little compact, takes very nice images. But, I had this nagging voice in the back of my head, saying "why have you spent all that money on good glass (DA 35, DA 70, DA 12-24) and now you're only going to use it sometimes?" When I found the K-m on the ebay for $400 (seems to be a common price from Prodigital2000), it was an easy choice to make the switch. I sold the LX3 to basically cover the exact cost of the K-m (less shipping), and I'm now a much happier camera owner. The DA Ltds. are natural fits, and the IQ is as good as my K10D. So, the old rule may apply here: Better to spend a bit more now and be happy, then spend a bit less, be unhappy, and eventually upgrade anyway, at a cost. Considering the K-m can be had for around $400, it's an equal cost to the LX3 anyway

Todd

The LX3 has intrigued me as well, and for one reason - it's a point and shoot and I can take it into concerts/shows. The K2000 (or any "professional looking camera" - meaning a camera with a removable lens) will get stopped at the door of most concert venues I've been to, while P&S's are happily shooting away. I was thrilled with the DP1 when it first came out, until I learned of all it's drawbacks. The LX3 seems like the best bet right now. However, there is a market for a fixed lens camera with good IQ at low light/high ISO.

Pentax could easily morph the K2000 into something like it. Perhaps the Samsung hybrid announcement could be the camera I'm looking for.

[jsherman999]

.

I just bought a K2000 + kit 18-55 L (II) for $385 before shipping from a prodigital2000 auction. (probably will sell the kit lens.)

I own a Panasonic TZ3, and considered getting the LX3, but the reviews tell me what I feared - they haven't put in a good enough sensor yet. ISO 400+, and the IQ just starts falling away. I can't buy something for $400 that will only let me shoot ISO 100-200 with any quality.

So my K2000 + F 50 1.7, 43ltd, DA 35 or some M/Tak will be my 'grab it & go' kit. I probably will always have a camera with me now on anything longer than errands.


.

[creampuff]

Cmon, how much difference is there price wise to have the kit lens? Very little imo. Given the intended target market, it certainly is useful for new users to have a lens to start with and it makes it easier stock keeping wise to have just a single stock keeping item.

[Ole]

I agree with the first post - Pentax marketing have done themselves in yet again, at least in the US.

Now they have this great inexpensive body - K10D quality and K20D features for a very competitive price, and then they don't see to it that it gets promoted by the retailers for this Holiday season! It's not featured in any of the big on-line retailers' ads, it's not in Best Buy, it's not in our local brick and mortar photo store - it is nowhere! If you want it you'll have to somehow know about it and hunt it down. Sad.

A missed opportunity for increasing the Pentax market share.

[audiobomber]

.
I own a Panasonic TZ3, and considered getting the LX3, but the reviews tell me what I feared - they haven't put in a good enough sensor yet. ISO 400+, and the IQ just starts falling away.

Not to mention my pet peeve, reduced dynamic range. Even the full-tilt DSLR's don't have enough DR, so there's none to spare.

From what I've heard the K2000 with kit lens (and flash?) is an affectation of Pentax US.

[gnaztee]

It's not featured in any of the big on-line retailers' ads, it's not in Best Buy, it's not in our local brick and mortar photo store - it is nowhere!

...is the biggest problem. Kudos to Pentax for making a camera (and kit) to go after consumers...but they're not going after consumers. People who buy P&S cams go to camera stores, or Best Buy/Circuit City. This will be the same group that wants to upgrade to their first DSLR. If they're a bit more savvy, they may go home after handling in the store and get a cheaper price online. Only research-shoppers will stumble across what the K-m offers. It seems they're kind of in the middle: not "out there" enough to really hit consumers, but not packaged with a DA Ltd or by itself for existing Pentax users who want a smaller alternative.

I usually don't care about marketing discussions on these boards, but this really seems like some strange decision-making to me.

Todd

[janosh]

It isn't "K10D quality." The viewfinder isn't nearly as good.

[nakey]

I agree with the first post - Pentax marketing have done themselves in yet again, at least in the US.

Now they have this great inexpensive body - K10D quality and K20D features for a very competitive price, and then they don't see to it that it gets promoted by the retailers for this Holiday season! It's not featured in any of the big on-line retailers' ads, it's not in Best Buy, it's not in our local brick and mortar photo store - it is nowhere! If you want it you'll have to somehow know about it and hunt it down. Sad.

A missed opportunity for increasing the Pentax market share.

Must just be you guys then

Was watching the Oran Park V8 Supercar Race. every ad break or so, there's an Ad for Teds, selling the K-m. Admittedly a little expensive given the going rate of K200D + DA18-55, but this is the first ad in a long while from Teds that is an SLR. back in the ancient days, they used to advertise the MZ-60

the fact that they're actually advertising a DSLR is a forward step.

[gnaztee]

It isn't "K10D quality." The viewfinder isn't nearly as good.

I think he meant the image quality. Obviously, the VF is not the only quality difference. The K10D is more rugged, weather sealed, more ergonomic (to me at least), etc., etc. But the image quality is as good or better than the K10D and it's more portable, which makes me like it.

Todd

[heatherslightbox]

It really is a shame that I'm not seeing the K2000 in the stores, not only Best Buy, but Target and Wal-Mart. This would be a nice addition to the D40s and XS/XSis that are sitting in their displays.

Since I already have 2 bodies, I'd have to get rid of one of them to get my own K2000, but I would have a hard time making up my mind which one I would get rid of...sigh...

Heather

[deejjjaaaa]

I probably will always have a camera with me now on anything longer than errands.
.

I have LX3 even on errands