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12-17-2008, 02:28 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
If I were starting over, that is, with no initial investment in PK compatible lenses, I would definitely purchase the Canon 40D or 50D.
But whether that would make you happier, I'm not sure. You know all the shortcomings/quirks of your gear. I may be wrong, but perhaps you would discover as many shortcomings/quirks with the Canon system. The 40D is a great camera but it isn't perfect either.

QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
And if the image banding problem appears on my K20D, this will be the last Pentax for me.
Might be worth having it replaced first.

QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
It is a pretty sad statement that some of us are only loyal to Pentax because of lenses.
A pretty sad statement by "some of us".


QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
The Pentax is over priced and under-featured.
Give me a break. "Over priced"? Have you looked at the latest K20D prices? You must be kidding.

12-17-2008, 02:51 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
the Canon's features are better than the K20D
features don't take pictures - people do. A tool either works for you or it doesn't though there is a spectrum. But far too many people get hung up on feature sets, electronic tests, photos of brick walls, etc. In the end, all that is pretty meaningless unless your main focus is being able to quote specs on the gadget you own.
12-17-2008, 03:44 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
But for the price I paid for the K20D and comparing features against the Canon [near] equivalent 40D or Nikon's equivalent.... The Pentax is over priced and under-featured. Yes, at the time, it had a higher number of pixels but that was/is about it.
You seem to have forgotten about SR and weather sealing. The latter is kind of ho-hum, and the 40D does provide *some* seals, but when it comes to features, all a camera needs a shutter, a sensor, and a way to control sensitivity, shutter speed, and aperture. After that features don't really matter unless they somehow lead to better pictures. I can't think of anything offered by Canon or Nikon that even comes close to SR as far as important camera features.
12-17-2008, 04:38 PM   #49
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Frankly, I am a little worried about the future strategy of pentax after incorporated by Hoya. This year, Pentax sale has been decreasing 30%. You can hardly find a pentax camera in supermarkets, electronic stores like walmart or bestbuy. Yes, you can buy it online, but I guess most people want to try to shoot with it before they spend their money.

12-17-2008, 05:57 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
It is a pretty sad statement that some of us are only loyal to Pentax because of lenses.

But it certainly isn't because Pentax makes [all] bad products. I have owned a dozen earlier SLRs such as the nearly impossible to break K1000 and the amazing MZ-S (which I consider one of the best 35mm SLRs ever created!). But even the MZ-S was incomplete (IMHO) because of the *plastic* back cover. What was Pentax thinking when they designed this nearly indestructible camera with such an obvious Achilles heal?

But for the price I paid for the K20D and comparing features against the Canon [near] equivalent 40D or Nikon's equivalent.... The Pentax is over priced and under-featured. Yes, at the time, it had a higher number of pixels but that was/is about it.
Actually, I think the Pentax bodies do stack up very well in terms of features for the price. It is a selling point to me. However, the reason I might (and I do say might) not have gone this route a second time are the quality quirks. Back when I bought "M" lenses, I never worried about finding a "good" copy. Now, the first thing I see on this forum is a database of "good" serial numbers. Then there are these pesky focusing issues under indoor lighting--a big deal because I am a huge fan of available lighting shots. On the other hand, I really like the feel of the cameras, and the DA primes I've purchased so far have been flawless.
12-17-2008, 06:38 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
But whether that would make you happier, I'm not sure. You know all the shortcomings/quirks of your gear. I may be wrong, but perhaps you would discover as many shortcomings/quirks with the Canon system. The 40D is a great camera but it isn't perfect either.

Might be worth having it replaced first.

A pretty sad statement by "some of us".

Give me a break. "Over priced"? Have you looked at the latest K20D prices? You must be kidding.

I was referring to the $1199 price I paid six month ago. That was the best price at the time.

Anyway, I hadn't even mentioned my primary reason for dissing Pentax. That is, Pentax doesn't appear to do much in order to increase consumer awareness of their products. It's been getting worse as each year goes by.

As an example, I counted the ads featuring DSLR cameras in the December issue of Popular Photography: Olympus, Nikon (plus 1 sponsorship), Sony (2 ads), Canon (2 ads)

Then, if you look at the sales ads in the back of the magazine, rarely does one see Pentax listed. Sales ads list the more popular DSLRs like Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Sony, and even FujiFilm.

There was a time (when I owned a Pentax 645 in the 80's) that Pentax was considered one of the top choices in pro cameras. Their K1000 was (and still is) widely respected and well known.

I believe most pros who buy DSLRs, are buying Nikon, followed by Canon (disclaimer, this is only based on about 14 pros that I know outside this forum).

Anyhow, this whole argument is pretty moot because as long as the camera meets your requirements.... who really cares about the brand you choose! Correct?

I just wish Pentax would do more to increase brand awareness and give us owners some sense that they care about us.
12-17-2008, 06:44 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
I was referring to the $1199 price I paid six month ago. That was the best price at the time.
But to be fair, you were comparing the still-high, shortly-after-introduction price of the Pentax against the already-settled-down price of the others (which had also started out considerably more expensive on introduction). Of course the K20D would not fare well in such a comparison - the timing was biased against Pentax. The prices of the cameras now that they've all been out a while is a much more fair comparison in that sense.

QuoteQuote:
Anyway, I hadn't even mentioned my primary reason for dissing Pentax. That is, Pentax doesn't appear to do much in order to increase consumer awareness of their products. It's been getting worse as each year goes by.
No argument there.
12-18-2008, 06:31 AM   #53
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Gotta say something about the prices. I just ordered K20 with 16-45 and after I sell that kit lens and get the cashback, K20's final price is 550 bucks. Doesn't seem so over-priced to me.

The reason why I chose Pentax was a money issue. I need weathersealed and stabilized set and Pentax offered one 2000€. Canikon takes triple or and more!


Last edited by dan aron; 12-18-2008 at 06:34 AM. Reason: typo
12-18-2008, 06:42 AM   #54
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Honestly, when I first got my *ist DS in 2005 (or 2006?), the only consumer DSLRs were the original Rebel, the Nikon D50, and the DS. The Rebel was priced around $900, my budget was closer to $600 so that left the D50 and the DS. After much handling at Ritz, I went with the DS as I liked the feel of it more. I did no investigation into the overall system (ie lenses) ; I honestly thought I would never buy any more lenses for it as it was already a big stretch for me to pay $600 for a camera

My path to LBA nirvana started with eBay, where I picked up some used goodies for little money. I thought $50 for the 28mm f/2.8 was ALOT of money for a lens. I did get a Vivitar autofocus 28-200mm for $13 (!!!!!!). $5,000 later........
12-18-2008, 07:04 AM   #55
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Of course it is a Money issue - without Pentax I wouldn't even be able to partake in this hobby. I'm still using the *ist DS (most under rated camera in history) which was approx $200 (AUS) cheaper than the canikon equivalents of the day.

Lenses - here is the kicker I have been very lucky on ebay and at the pawn shops and have some awesome little gems and I was able to afford a Pentax DA 16-45 as well - all up I have an *ist DS, DA 16-45, Pentax K 55 F1.8, M 50 F2, M 100 F2.8, M 35- 70 F2.8-3.5, Sigma 55-200mm & a Pentax 360FGZ Flash -

This would not have been possible for me with canikon and for the same money I spent on Pentax so far I would have had to settle for a Canon350D (Rebel) that would have fallen apart by now, a really crappy 18-55 kit lens and perhaps a flash and a 50mm prime with a plastic mount.

Pentax has awesome cameras that cater for their current target market, perhaps one day they will have a super pro level camera that some on here are demanding.
But just remember those kind of cameras exist already and you can buy one right this second if you want - they just cost a lot more than the current Pentax's.

But hey what has money got to do with it
12-18-2008, 07:45 AM   #56
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As for buying 'just for the lenses,' well, what lenses. If you like prime lenses, Pentax just has these very attractive options you don't find elsewhere, (Not that Canon doesn't make a few of my real favorites, too: bodies are going to continue to evolve, but where else are you going to go for all these little metal fast primes?

And, well, the K20d's price plunge and a bit of a lucky trade rendered it moot, but the 200 and such would have been a way to get into a DSLR system with an 'entry-level' camera body I could *stand* while waiting for better to trickle down within reach.

There's different kinds of shooters out there, and it's good for me that Pentax isn't trying to compete so much at doing what Canon and Nikon do, ...the brand's coming at things from a *perspective* that really suits what I do, these days, (And the more they go for the outdoorsey set, I think the more that'll continue. I don't actually get out to the woods a whole lot, cause of my health, but if it's good for a hiker, it's probably good for me. The other brands seem to have a tendency to stratify somewhat more: which means some things I'd consider basic needs are put only in the more expensive (and bigger and heavier) models. )

It's about who puts what I need in my hands.
12-18-2008, 08:32 AM   #57
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I really like Pentax glass and the output quality of Pentax DSLR's, specifically the K10D & K20D's.

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12-18-2008, 09:57 AM   #58
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I love the size of em, too: just big and hefty enough that a battery-grip is non-obligatory for me, small enough to fit all those riding-shotgun-with-the-F-1-or-Mamiya spots in my bags.

Pentax really is getting a lot of we Canon FD holdouts who never found it worthwhile or possible to go EOS after the mount change. (and maybe other late-adopters of AF and digital.)

They got the stuff that appeals to we "What do you mean it costs fifty bucks to plug in a 285?" types, too.

There's a lot of good reasons, really. I don't know what constitutes a 'purist,' these days, but the latest whizbang isn't always what everyone wants. Like, hey, the 'live view' may not be the best on the K20d, but they didn't darken the finder or jack the price up over it, either. In the 'old days' would you pay four hundred bucks and/or live with a finder that was dimmer than it had to be, just to avoid learning how to shoot overhead? Silly.

In a lot of ways, I'd rather have a pretty steady upgrade path than have to deal with the kind of quirks that crop up in the megapixel races and such: and Pentax marketing may not be the most confidence-inspiring in some ways as regards the company going on, but I'm not paying for Aston Kutcher to appear in prime time, either.
12-19-2008, 02:40 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
That is, Pentax doesn't appear to do much in order to increase consumer awareness of their products.
True. From my experience, Pentax is conspicuous in their absence with respect to adverts in print media.

That doesn't help to get favourable reviews. Which in turn doesn't help sales.

QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
as long as the camera meets your requirements.... who really cares about the brand you choose!
Well said.

I don't mind whether Pentax is widely known or not, but I'm a bit concerned that if their niche becomes too small, they may disappear. And that would be a big shame in many, many ways.
12-19-2008, 05:28 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by dan aron Quote
Much of great information. Thank you so far.

The biggest issue is the weather sealing. If I stay with Nikon I got to buy D300 and some extremely expensive lenses with VR, cause that's what I need. If I decide to change to Pentax I would buy K20, 16-50mm, 300mm and 50mm at first. Unless there's one good quality weather resistant telezoom, I would take it before a prime. I think Sigma's Bigma and 100-300 aren't sealed ones..?

The thing why I need weather sealing and image stabilization is that I'm going to shoot extreme sports and I'm living in Finland where it's really dark in winters.
If you want to go pro and do not have a lot a cash, go with Pentax. A lot of bang for your buck. Remember, the camera is a tool. Once you start making money with your photograpy, if you want to go with a more profesional setup, then consider the other two. I will say that Pentax can definatly hold its own in the relm of professional photography with the K10D and K20D bodies and those new pro grade *DA lenses. The autofocusing problem, ( at least on my K10D), occurrs when sooting in low light with no flash. I am going to do a comparision to to my cousin's Canon 30D and will post results later.
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