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**wtlwdwgn** · 12-05-2008, 03:37 PM

I must be doing something wrong. I've seen very good images at ISO 3200, but I can't seem to get as good results. Here are some illustrations with and without NR in Lightroom. Am I expecting too much?

K20D, DA* 50-135 f/2.8, 55mm, 1/250 @ f/6.7, ISO 3200.

Full Frame.

Enlargement of dark area without NR.

Enlargement of dark area with NR.

Enlargement of center with NR.

magnum1 · 12-05-2008, 03:39 PM

Actually, for being dark, I would say that's about normal.

Urmas R. · 12-05-2008, 03:51 PM

It seems to be more or less normal. It is rather easy to remove it in post processing. I guess at least in part the good results you are referring to could be attributed to good image editing. Secondly, I have noticed rather large differences in shadow noise among various raw converters I have tested.

allill · 12-05-2008, 04:52 PM

WOW! Gas is $1.69/gal!

Photos look pretty good to me for ISO 3200 too.

**Sailor** · 12-05-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by wtlwdwgn

I must be doing something wrong. I've seen very good images at ISO 3200, but I can't seem to get as good results. Here are some illustrations with and without NR in Lightroom. Am I expecting too much?

Actually, I'm pretty impressed (makes me feel better since I've got a K20D on the way - to be delivered 12/25 - AM). This looks better than what I've been able to get out of a K10D at ISO 1600.

Jer

Originally posted by allill

WOW! Gas is $1.69/gal!

Around here, 1.69 is looking pretty high - for "regular". I saw 1.41/9 today for 87 octane here in SE Texas; unfortunately, both of my cars require premium, but that's dropping too. My wife, who's car happily burns 87, is gloating.

Jer

er1kksen · 12-05-2008, 05:10 PM

Looks like my E-330 at ISO 400. Great if you ask me.

NorthPentax · 12-06-2008, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by allill

WOW! Gas is $1.69/gal!

Photos look pretty good to me for ISO 3200 too.

LOL... we pay $5,29/gal. here in Norway

nulla · 12-06-2008, 10:53 AM

That seems to be about right for 3200.

Gas (Petrol) in Aus is about $1.10 per litre as I write... and I thought that was cheap

**wtlwdwgn** · 12-06-2008, 11:22 AM

Thanks for the replies and comments. I feel better now.

**Sailor** · 12-06-2008, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by wtlwdwgn

Thanks for the replies and comments. I feel better now.

Steve, have you ever compared the output of your K10D and K20D at ISO 1600?

Jer

**wtlwdwgn** · 12-06-2008, 12:52 PM

No I haven't yet. I'll give it a try.

pareto · 12-06-2008, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by wtlwdwgn

I must be doing something wrong. I've seen very good images at ISO 3200, but I can't seem to get as good results. Here are some illustrations with and without NR in Lightroom.

Hello!

Like the others said, the K20D has great potential regarding noise, but good post-processing-skills are necessary to really make use of it. The donation-ware RawTherapee for examples delivers little bit lower noise and foremost a finer grain. But even if you use Lightroom, the integrated noise reduction is just horrible. A genuine NR program can do much better. I've added a version of your image run through NeatImage.

Original:

Lightroom NR:

Neat Image NR:

I think it shows less noise and noise pattern than the original, but cleary more detail and a finer texture than Lightroom's noise reduction. You should try it. Mastering a good NR program gives you about two stops of usable ISO range.

pareto

PollitowuzHere · 12-06-2008, 06:10 PM

I wish my K10D shot that well at ISO 1600, although I'm embracing luminance noise as if it were film grain.

12-05-2008, 03:37 PM	#1
wtlwdwgn Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Billings, MT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,853	K20D Noise I must be doing something wrong. I've seen very good images at ISO 3200, but I can't seem to get as good results. Here are some illustrations with and without NR in Lightroom. Am I expecting too much? K20D, DA* 50-135 f/2.8, 55mm, 1/250 @ f/6.7, ISO 3200. Full Frame. Enlargement of dark area without NR. Enlargement of dark area with NR. Enlargement of center with NR.

12-05-2008, 05:03 PM	#5
Sailor Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coastal Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 26,203	Originally posted by wtlwdwgn I must be doing something wrong. I've seen very good images at ISO 3200, but I can't seem to get as good results. Here are some illustrations with and without NR in Lightroom. Am I expecting too much? Actually, I'm pretty impressed (makes me feel better since I've got a K20D on the way - to be delivered 12/25 - AM). This looks better than what I've been able to get out of a K10D at ISO 1600. Jer Originally posted by allill WOW! Gas is $1.69/gal! Around here, 1.69 is looking pretty high - for "regular". I saw 1.41/9 today for 87 octane here in SE Texas; unfortunately, both of my cars require premium, but that's dropping too. My wife, who's car happily burns 87, is gloating. Jer Last edited by Sailor; 12-06-2008 at 12:02 PM.

12-06-2008, 03:23 PM	#12
pareto Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: EU Posts: 35	Try real NR software Originally posted by wtlwdwgn I must be doing something wrong. I've seen very good images at ISO 3200, but I can't seem to get as good results. Here are some illustrations with and without NR in Lightroom. Hello! Like the others said, the K20D has great potential regarding noise, but good post-processing-skills are necessary to really make use of it. The donation-ware RawTherapee for examples delivers little bit lower noise and foremost a finer grain. But even if you use Lightroom, the integrated noise reduction is just horrible. A genuine NR program can do much better. I've added a version of your image run through NeatImage. Original: Lightroom NR: Neat Image NR: I think it shows less noise and noise pattern than the original, but cleary more detail and a finer texture than Lightroom's noise reduction. You should try it. Mastering a good NR program gives you about two stops of usable ISO range. pareto

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12-05-2008, 03:39 PM	#2
magnum1 Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Niagara, Wisconsin U.S. of Ay. Posts: 394	Actually, for being dark, I would say that's about normal.

12-05-2008, 03:51 PM	#3
Urmas R. Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 179	It seems to be more or less normal. It is rather easy to remove it in post processing. I guess at least in part the good results you are referring to could be attributed to good image editing. Secondly, I have noticed rather large differences in shadow noise among various raw converters I have tested.

12-05-2008, 04:52 PM	#4
allill Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 267	WOW! Gas is $1.69/gal! Photos look pretty good to me for ISO 3200 too.

12-05-2008, 05:10 PM	#6
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	Looks like my E-330 at ISO 400. Great if you ask me.

12-06-2008, 06:11 AM	#7
NorthPentax Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: No(r)way Photos: Gallery Posts: 179	Originally posted by allill WOW! Gas is $1.69/gal! Photos look pretty good to me for ISO 3200 too. LOL... we pay $5,29/gal. here in Norway

12-06-2008, 10:53 AM	#8
nulla Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,560	That seems to be about right for 3200. Gas (Petrol) in Aus is about $1.10 per litre as I write... and I thought that was cheap

12-06-2008, 11:22 AM	#9
wtlwdwgn Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Billings, MT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,853 Original Poster	Thanks for the replies and comments. I feel better now.

12-06-2008, 12:04 PM	#10
Sailor Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coastal Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 26,203	Originally posted by wtlwdwgn Thanks for the replies and comments. I feel better now. Steve, have you ever compared the output of your K10D and K20D at ISO 1600? Jer

12-06-2008, 12:52 PM	#11
wtlwdwgn Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Billings, MT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,853 Original Poster	No I haven't yet. I'll give it a try.

12-06-2008, 06:10 PM	#13
PollitowuzHere Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 110	I wish my K10D shot that well at ISO 1600, although I'm embracing luminance noise as if it were film grain.

K20D Noise

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