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11-24-2021, 10:54 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevejo Quote
As you are in the UK I can recommend Park Cameras (London & Burgess Hill) for 2nd hand lenses. Had a couple of lenses from them (by post) and both been excellent, and backed up by 6 month warranty. They usually have a fair selection of Pentax lenses.
Hi Steve, many thanks for that. I know that they have been around for a while and seem to get good reviews. I've ordered a KP from them, and am waiting for it to arrive.

11-24-2021, 02:04 PM - 1 Like   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
Glad you found a nice KP.

I can't recommend a K-70 to anyone due to the aperture block failure, a known problem due to a faulty solenoid. It's a shame because that leaves only the K-3 III and K-1 II as current models to recommend, both of which are expensive.

Pentax really need to bring out a K-70 replacement without this faulty part.
Look at the whole failure rate.... does the K-70 fail more than other cameras in it's class. This has always been the issue, since day one. Maybe other cameras fail at this rate, but it's combination of other things not the Aperture block. We know about the aperture block. But until we know the overall camera has a higher than average failure rate, that doesn't mean anything.

I've said this since day one. And also with the SDM failures. The first basic thing you have to know to know whether the camera is a bad buy is, what's better? Somehow I would think people should know this before they start these negative campaigns.

I've been saying so since day one. It hasn't changed a thing. As my mom wold say "I m sick and tired of this nonsense."

Honestly, does anyone know that the K-70 is worse than anyone else's entry level cameras?
Anyone?
Some people expect to buy entry level cameras and get the same durability as flagships. Is that real anywhere with anything?
11-24-2021, 02:25 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by stephen_G Quote
I've been scouring the lens listing here Lens list for Digital single-lens reflex camera / Lens lineup/ Lenses / Products | RICOH IMAGING to acquaint myself with what is available. Getting my head around what all of the letters mean in the lens name is a bit of a learning curve!
I see that on that site Ricoh have gone down the "equivalence" rabbit hole:
"* Focal Length w / FF: when attached to PENTAX 35mm full-frame SLR cameras | w / APS-C: when attached to PENTAX APS-C size DSLR cameras" (e.g. for a 50mm lens, 50mm and 76.5mm).
No, no, no. It's still a 50mm lens. It's just that the field of view (FOV) is different because of the sensor size. More threads about this topic here than you can shake a stick at.

There is a mental adjustment in going from a 35mm film camera to an APS-C DSLR. Your 28mm lens is a wide angle lens on the ME Super, but it's pretty close to a "normal" FOV on APS-C. For a similar wide angle FOV you need around 19mm on APS-C. After a while though you stop doing the "conversion".

All the lens acronyms are confusing. Some (e.g. ED, AL) refer to a type of element in the lens. Some (smc, HD) refer to the lens coatings. Some (WR, AW) refer to its weather sealing. Some (DC, SDM, PLM) refer to the type of autofocus mechanism. IF describes an internal focus lens (ie the lens doesn't change length when focusing).

Apart from that, Pentax lenses use different initials to describe the lens series (e.g. M, A, F, FA, FA J, DA, DA L, D FA). The D ones were designed for digital camera, although all the earlier ones work perfectly well on digital. Some premium lenses in a series are designated "star" lenses (denoted with an asterisk), some are designated Limited (relatively compact lenses with distinctive image properties).

The acronyms for each lens are described in the Pentax Forums staff review of each lens.
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
No numbers, but reports do keep dribbling in.
@Photogem can probably give more of an indication (albeit still anecdotal), but I agree with Jonathan that a problem that emerged about 10 years ago shouldn't be happening at all in a current model. There was a class action brought over it - don't know where that finished up.
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Some people expect to buy entry level cameras and get the same durability as flagships. Is that real anywhere with anything?
The irony, Norm, is that it isn't really a question of durability. The failures tend to occur not from over-use, but under-use. The K-70 might be an entry level camera, but it's listed at $A1149 at CRK. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to expect it not to fail because of a poor quality $5 part, especially when the problem has been known for so long.

Last edited by Des; 11-24-2021 at 02:42 PM.
11-24-2021, 03:09 PM - 1 Like   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
The irony, Norm, is that it isn't really a question of durability. The failures tend to occur not from over-use, but under-use. The K-70 might be an entry level camera, but it's listed at $A1149 at CRK. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to expect it not to fail because of a poor quality $5 part, especially when the problem has been known for so long.
That's an Ausie thing.


Over here ~$800.

I paid about $500 for my K-x 10 years ago. It seems reasonable to me for an entry level Pentax.

Under Hobby and Beginner camera at Henry's, nothing under $550.
K-70 with 18-55 3.5-5.6 -$819 at Camera Canada
Canon T7 with 18-50 IS. =549$

If you compare the feature set the Pentax is a good deal.
canon 9 point AF 1 cross type system - Pentax 11 point 9 cross type
Canon up to 3 fps - Pentax up to 7 fps

The Canon has a different non-photographic set of advantages, Wifi, pairing etc
The K-70 has many things the Canon doesn't
Tilt screen, Pixel shift, in camera stabilization, on sensor phase detect, focus peaking, it's not particularly relevant trying to compare a K-70 to other people's entry level cameras.
https://www.imaging-resource.com/cameras/pentax/k-70/vs/canon/t7/



The cameras are not really comparable, the Pentax has so many added features. Not to mention go to Imagine Resources at 32000 ISO the K70 is significantly better.
I see no indication the K-70 is overprice. And I also see no of indication the Canon has a lower failure rate. That is a blatantly unfair assumption. Let's just stick to what we know.

I suspect Pentax would be embarrassed to have made a camera like this.


Last edited by normhead; 11-24-2021 at 06:42 PM.
11-24-2021, 03:36 PM   #80
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Here in the US, a new KP has definitely become extremely rare. I recently saw a new body offered by a supplier here through Amazon- one only. They wanted $1,000 USD for the body only. The Pentax HD DA 18-50mm seems to have become scarce also for some reason, while the older, lower-performing screw-driven DA 18-55mm is still around.

In your case, it might be prudent to contact Park to see if you can reserve a deal for a new KP body they already have in stock, just in case it winds up where they cannot fill your order after all. They might then cut you a deal for a lens too.

I wonder who at the Rico/Pentax offices in your area came up with the very good idea of boxing that lens with the KP at a good price? Ricoh/Pentax USA did that some years ago with the K-S2, came together pre-boxed in a Ricoh/Pentax carton, but it was the lesser version of that lens. Over here, there have been no such pre-boxed kit deals offered for the KP, only the one offered for the K-70 and DA 18-135mm lens, which is a very good deal. Too bad such was not offered for the KP. Evidently, the authorized branches representing Ricoh/Pentax are quite different, depending on the country or area. I know there are differences between the US and Canada. Perhaps in the Ricoh/Pentax warehouse of your district or area, there is more KP left-over stock than over here.
11-24-2021, 04:07 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
I see that on that site Ricoh have gone down the "equivalence" rabbit hole:
"* Focal Length w / FF: when attached to PENTAX 35mm full-frame SLR cameras | w / APS-C: when attached to PENTAX APS-C size DSLR cameras" (e.g. for a 50mm lens, 50mm and 76.5mm).
No, no, no. It's still a 50mm lens. It's just that the field of view (FOV) is different because of the sensor size. More threads about this topic here than you can shake a stick at.

There is a mental adjustment in going from a 35mm film camera to an APS-C DSLR. Your 28mm lens is a wide angle lens on the ME Super, but it's pretty close to a "normal" FOV on APS-C. For a similar wide angle FOV you need around 19mm on APS-C. After a while though you stop doing the "conversion".

All the lens acronyms are confusing. Some (e.g. ED, AL) refer to a type of element in the lens. Some (smc, HD) refer to the lens coatings. Some (WR, AW) refer to its weather sealing. Some (DC, SDM, PLM) refer to the type of autofocus mechanism. IF describes an internal focus lens (ie the lens doesn't change length when focusing).

Apart from that, Pentax lenses use different initials to describe the lens series (e.g. M, A, F, FA, FA J, DA, DA L, D FA). The D ones were designed for digital camera, although all the earlier ones work perfectly well on digital. Some premium lenses in a series are designated "star" lenses (denoted with an asterisk), some are designated Limited (relatively compact lenses with distinctive image properties).

The acronyms for each lens are described in the Pentax Forums staff review of each lens.

@Photogem can probably give more of an indication (albeit still anecdotal), but I agree with Jonathan that a problem that emerged about 10 years ago shouldn't be happening at all in a current model. There was a class action brought over it - don't know where that finished up.

The irony, Norm, is that it isn't really a question of durability. The failures tend to occur not from over-use, but under-use. The K-70 might be an entry level camera, but it's listed at $A1149 at CRK. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to expect it not to fail because of a poor quality $5 part, especially when the problem has been known for so long.
Thanks for going through the "equivalence" issue. To a newcomer llike myself still getting to grips with this, "equivalence" statements llike those in the Pentax lens listing page, seems to suggest that my SMC 80-200mm zoom for example, (FF), when used with APS-C, becomes a 121-307mm zoom, (giving an increased zoom distance). I understand now that this is not the case. The focal length remains the same, it is just the filed of view that changes due to the size of the image sensor compared to the size of the old 35mm film. Is that correct?
Further confusion (on my part) arises when studying the lens list when looking for example at the HD PENTAX-DA 55-300mmF4.5-6.3ED PLM WR RE, where the list gives the focal length of that lens when used with APS-C to be 84.5-460mm. Is it the convention to specify the focal length of lenses only as they apply to the FF format?
11-24-2021, 07:13 PM - 1 Like   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by stephen_G Quote
Thanks for going through the "equivalence" issue. To a newcomer llike myself still getting to grips with this, "equivalence" statements llike those in the Pentax lens listing page, seems to suggest that my SMC 80-200mm zoom for example, (FF), when used with APS-C, becomes a 121-307mm zoom, (giving an increased zoom distance). I understand now that this is not the case. The focal length remains the same, it is just the filed of view that changes due to the size of the image sensor compared to the size of the old 35mm film. Is that correct?
Further confusion (on my part) arises when studying the lens list when looking for example at the HD PENTAX-DA 55-300mmF4.5-6.3ED PLM WR RE, where the list gives the focal length of that lens when used with APS-C to be 84.5-460mm. Is it the convention to specify the focal length of lenses only as they apply to the FF format?
Absolutely not, let me take a stab.

I own the 55-300 PLM, its the same FL on both cameras, my K-1 and K-3 (FF and APS-c). On any camera the FL of the lens should be the FL of the lens as confirmed by scientific measurement. It doesn't change with the size of the sensor.

But the key thing for you, for any lens on any system the size of the lens is determine by optical physics.

That being said, what changes is the field of view. So a 70mm lens on FF is about the same as a 50mm lens on APS-c. The FL didn't change. We changed the focal length to match the field of view.

So when you talk about your 80-200 when you put it on an APS-c camera, the FL doesn't change. But put the same lens on an APS-c camera and you will have the same field of view as a 120-300 would on 35mm camera.

Why people ever called it an equivalent focal length instead of an equivalent field of view I have no idea. Someone messed up and caused a whole pile of confusion. But the reason was probably that we don't use field of view, none of us actually know what the field of view for the lenses we use is.. I'd have to look it up for every lens.

Any other method would be pointless. You can't start writing numbers on lens barrels that aren't the focal length of the lens. What counts is the optics of the lens, in determining focal length. Nothing else. After all, Pentax APS-c and FF use the same mount and many can be used on both cameras. Same lens, different format cameras, same focal length= different fields of view.

For further confusion....
More reach on APS-c demonstrated - PentaxForums.com

11-24-2021, 07:20 PM   #83
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I personally have had a K5, a K3 and now I have a K1. The k1 has been the best by FARR, but it is on the heavy side. But I can say that after getting my K1 I almost never picked up my older cameras again. The K1 would pair nicely with any old vintage lenses you have.
11-24-2021, 10:56 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by stephen_G Quote
The focal length remains the same, it is just the filed of view that changes due to the size of the image sensor compared to the size of the old 35mm film. Is that correct?
Yes, exactly. The actual field of view (FOV) on different format cameras is listed in the user reviews. For example, on the review page for the FA 28mm f2.8 (SMC Pentax-FA 28mm F2.8 AL Reviews - FA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database), in the box at the top you will see the FOV listed as follows:
Field of View (Diag. / Horiz.)
APS-C: 55° / 46°
Full frame: 75° / 65°
I could never remember these numbers. I just have an idea in my head of how a 28mm image looks on APS-C. The more you use primes the more you tend to be attuned to this. If you use zooms all the time, you tend to frame the shot how you want and don't register what focal length that is (unless it's the maximum or minimum, or a point where the maximum aperture changes).
QuoteOriginally posted by stephen_G Quote
Further confusion (on my part) arises when studying the lens list when looking for example at the HD PENTAX-DA 55-300mmF4.5-6.3ED PLM WR RE, where the list gives the focal length of that lens when used with APS-C to be 84.5-460mm. Is it the convention to specify the focal length of lenses only as they apply to the FF format?
See Norm's response. I have no idea why Ricoh list an "equivalent" focal length. It's really misleading and confusing. It's certainly not a convention - in fact whenever some hapless novice uses terminology like that on this site (e.g. "oh it's really 450mm") they usually get a deluge of corrections.
QuoteOriginally posted by stephen_G Quote
I've ordered a KP from them, and am waiting for it to arrive.
If they are a reputable supplier they will have a basis for offering it. Ricoh must have told them that it's coming. There must be some old stock around. I don't want to be a wet blanket, but sometimes it doesn't work out. The authorised Australian distributor for Pentax offered some deals on out-of-production models earlier this year: Pentax Australia deals on superseded models - K-50, K-S2 & K-3ii - PentaxForums.com Most of those offers came through, but the juiciest of them (K-3ii + DA 16-85 for $A999) fell through. Those of us who ordered them got a refund and a terse email saying it was no longer available and "we have just been advised by overseas" (meaning Ricoh HQ, presumably). Hope your order comes through.
11-25-2021, 02:12 AM   #85
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I would go with a KP if it is in your budget
11-25-2021, 02:15 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by imr Quote
I would go with a KP if it is in your budget
You haven't read any of the thread have you?

11-25-2021, 02:52 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Absolutely not, let me take a stab.

I own the 55-300 PLM, its the same FL on both cameras, my K-1 and K-3 (FF and APS-c). On any camera the FL of the lens should be the FL of the lens as confirmed by scientific measurement. It doesn't change with the size of the sensor.

But the key thing for you, for any lens on any system the size of the lens is determine by optical physics.

That being said, what changes is the field of view. So a 70mm lens on FF is about the same as a 50mm lens on APS-c. The FL didn't change. We changed the focal length to match the field of view.

So when you talk about your 80-200 when you put it on an APS-c camera, the FL doesn't change. But put the same lens on an APS-c camera and you will have the same field of view as a 120-300 would on 35mm camera.

Why people ever called it an equivalent focal length instead of an equivalent field of view I have no idea. Someone messed up and caused a whole pile of confusion. But the reason was probably that we don't use field of view, none of us actually know what the field of view for the lenses we use is.. I'd have to look it up for every lens.

Any other method would be pointless. You can't start writing numbers on lens barrels that aren't the focal length of the lens. What counts is the optics of the lens, in determining focal length. Nothing else. After all, Pentax APS-c and FF use the same mount and many can be used on both cameras. Same lens, different format cameras, same focal length= different fields of view.

For further confusion....
More reach on APS-c demonstrated - PentaxForums.com
Hi Norm, thanks very much for clarifying, Hopefully as I get into DSLR's I can forget about this issue and concentrate on taking good pictures.Your own images by the way in the link that you gave me are very impressive with both cameras.

---------- Post added 11-25-21 at 03:00 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
Yes, exactly. The actual field of view (FOV) on different format cameras is listed in the user reviews. For example, on the review page for the FA 28mm f2.8 (SMC Pentax-FA 28mm F2.8 AL Reviews - FA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database), in the box at the top you will see the FOV listed as follows:
Field of View (Diag. / Horiz.)
APS-C: 55° / 46°
Full frame: 75° / 65°
I could never remember these numbers. I just have an idea in my head of how a 28mm image looks on APS-C. The more you use primes the more you tend to be attuned to this. If you use zooms all the time, you tend to frame the shot how you want and don't register what focal length that is (unless it's the maximum or minimum, or a point where the maximum aperture changes).

See Norm's response. I have no idea why Ricoh list an "equivalent" focal length. It's really misleading and confusing. It's certainly not a convention - in fact whenever some hapless novice uses terminology like that on this site (e.g. "oh it's really 450mm") they usually get a deluge of corrections.

If they are a reputable supplier they will have a basis for offering it. Ricoh must have told them that it's coming. There must be some old stock around. I don't want to be a wet blanket, but sometimes it doesn't work out. The authorised Australian distributor for Pentax offered some deals on out-of-production models earlier this year: Pentax Australia deals on superseded models - K-50, K-S2 & K-3ii - PentaxForums.com Most of those offers came through, but the juiciest of them (K-3ii + DA 16-85 for $A999) fell through. Those of us who ordered them got a refund and a terse email saying it was no longer available and "we have just been advised by overseas" (meaning Ricoh HQ, presumably). Hope your order comes through.
Thanks again Des for clarifying, as I replied to Norm, I'm looking forward to all of this being second nature, and to being able to concentrate on the quality of my pictures.
Regarding my purchase of the KP deal with Park Cameras, I'm sort of holding my breath. I ordered in good faith and trusted their reputation (as far as I was able to assess it). Hopefully they will come through. I'm going to chase it up next week. One of the forum members (Mikesbike), mentioned that new KP's are hard to find in the USA, but there seem to be plenty available over here from various suppliers.
11-25-2021, 03:28 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by stephen_G Quote
Your comments on the KP are timely, (I have ordered one today), and the more that I hear about that camera, the more reassured I am about my investment. In my own mind, I questioned if such a camera would be too complex for me, and if I ought to go for a lower spec camera instead
Good choice! I started with a K-5, which was and still is a fantastic camera. Then bought a used K-1 here on PF, which is a great camera, but larger and heavier, though it is my daily carry walk-around camera just the same. Recently I had the opportunity to purchase a KP from a forum member, and I am very, very, pleased with how well it performs "out of the box" but also with all the features it has. I won't grow out of this camera anytime soon. Don't worry too much about a battery grip or an extra battery right away, just get in the habit of checking the battery once or twice a week at the end of the day and you won't be caught out.

I hope you enjoy your KP just as much as I enjoy mine, and I look forward to seeing your pictures here on PF! Considering joining the Single In Group, it is a great encouragement to shooting every day, and that helps you learn your camera more rapidly.
11-25-2021, 04:38 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by stephen_G Quote
Thanks Jonathan, I was wary of buying even a new K70 due to that issue. Warranty would provide cover for that eventuality, but the
potential inconvenience of being without the camera while it was being repaired under warranty was not a happy prospect. It leads to the question "what would happen if the camera subsequently fails out of warranty?".
Apparently solenoid failure is a rare occurrence in the K70. I don't know if this is due to an improved solenoid being used, or some other design change that reduces a potential reliability issue with that specific part. If it is the same specific part that is being used in the K70 that had proven reliability issues in previous models, then that would be of concern. In the end I chose to buy the KP instead.[COLOR="Silver"]
I think you made a good choice. In Europe you'd get a two-year warranty but, personally, I expect a DSLR that's treated well to last considerably more than two years. My K-3 is in it's sixth year of use and still going strong.

QuoteOriginally posted by jgnfld Quote
To be honest, I've seen no numbers for the K-70 which imply any sort of significant failure rate. Have you?
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
No numbers, but reports do keep dribbling in.
Exactly. No numbers, just reports here and on other Pentax forums I frequent.
11-25-2021, 05:52 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
I think you made a good choice. In Europe you'd get a two-year warranty but, personally, I expect a DSLR that's treated well to last considerably more than two years. My K-3 is in it's sixth year of use and still going strong.





Exactly. No numbers, just reports here and on other Pentax forums I frequent.
From what I have read about the build quality of the KP I have no concerns about reliability. I have used Pentax products (admittedly film equipment), for over forty years withiut any major issues, they are a great company.
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