Looking for a reason to not get the K-3 Mk3, or more reasons to get it

**MossyRocks** · 12-10-2021, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by tokyoscape

Just wonder, why not a K1?

When I first made the jump to digital my plan was to be happy with the K2000 for a while until I saved up enough to get the K-1. Then I found a good deal on a lightly used K-3 bought that, really got into astrophotography specifically deep sky objects. As time progressed and I started really understanding how to maximize things I realized that there is a tradeoff in going to full frame and going after deep sky objects. The problem is that while the K-1 and later K-1ii have lower noise it isn't a full stops worth lower noise and are also not a pixel dense. So to get the same framing on full frame I would have to jump up in focal length 1.5x from what I run with my K-3. However I have the SMC A* 400/2.8 ED [IF] as my primary astro lens which means on a K-1 I would need a 600mm f/4 which if the lenses performed exactly the same and there was a 1 stop difference in noise between the K-1 and K-3 it would end up a wash. Unfortunatly the K-3 is not a stop worse for noise and the 600/4 lenses probably need to be stopped down more than the 1/2 stop the A* 400/2.8 does (yes I run the 400/2.8 at f/3.5 for astro). Now the K-3iii actually does even better noise wise than even the K-1 making it a much better choice. Now if I did lots of ultra wide astro shooting where lenses get slower the wider you go the analysis favors full frame cameras. Why run a 12mm f/2.8 when you can run an 18mm f/2 and capture a stop more light through the lens and have a sensor that provides almost a stop less noise (K-1 vs K-3).

For my regular daytime shooting or even non astro night shooting it wouldn't make a difference if I used a K-1ii or the K-3iii since I have such a huge selection of lenses (12mm up to 400mm) i've acquired over the years so being able to get enough reach or go wide enough isn't a problem.

tokyoscape · 12-10-2021, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by MossyRocks

When I first made the jump to digital my plan was to be happy with the K2000 for a while until I saved up enough to get the K-1. Then I found a good deal on a lightly used K-3 bought that, really got into astrophotography specifically deep sky objects. As time progressed and I started really understanding how to maximize things I realized that there is a tradeoff in going to full frame and going after deep sky objects. The problem is that while the K-1 and later K-1ii have lower noise it isn't a full stops worth lower noise and are also not a pixel dense. So to get the same framing on full frame I would have to jump up in focal length 1.5x from what I run with my K-3. However I have the SMC A* 400/2.8 ED [IF] as my primary astro lens which means on a K-1 I would need a 600mm f/4 which if the lenses performed exactly the same and there was a 1 stop difference in noise between the K-1 and K-3 it would end up a wash. Unfortunatly the K-3 is not a stop worse for noise and the 600/4 lenses probably need to be stopped down more than the 1/2 stop the A* 400/2.8 does (yes I run the 400/2.8 at f/3.5 for astro). Now the K-3iii actually does even better noise wise than even the K-1 making it a much better choice. Now if I did lots of ultra wide astro shooting where lenses get slower the wider you go the analysis favors full frame cameras. Why run a 12mm f/2.8 when you can run an 18mm f/2 and capture a stop more light through the lens and have a sensor that provides almost a stop less noise (K-1 vs K-3).

For my regular daytime shooting or even non astro night shooting it wouldn't make a difference if I used a K-1ii or the K-3iii since I have such a huge selection of lenses (12mm up to 400mm) i've acquired over the years so being able to get enough reach or go wide enough isn't a problem.

That's make sense. It seems like you have all the good reasons to get yourself a K3III. Why wait!

**NZ_Ross** · 12-10-2021, 10:57 PM

The K-3 III compared to my previous K-3 (original) is night and day - faster, massive ISO range, massive sensor improvements, much lower noise due to the sensor improvements and a huge improvement for the AF.

I sold my K-3, as there wasn't much point keeping it after the K-3 III purchase. What can I say, you won't be disappointed.

biz-engineer · 12-10-2021, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by MossyRocks

Looking for a reason to not get the K-3 Mk3, or more reasons to get it

I'll give you my reason for not getting the K3-3: images taken with good technique I see from the K3-3 amaze me, but to fund the Pentax K1 I sold ALL my apsc lenses, so now if I'd go back to apsc it would be costly, on top of the price of the K3-3 itself expensive. If you have apsc lenses and the money for a K3-3, it's hard to find a reason not to go for a K3-3. I wished Ricoh will offer the new astro tracer method via firmware updates. Not that the GPS isn't good, but software based tracking may be more accurate and doesn't require to have an antenna over the prism and a plastic base for the flash hotshoe.

**MossyRocks** · 12-11-2021, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I'll give you my reason for not getting the K3-3: images taken with good technique I see from the K3-3 amaze me

That is why I have kept on using the K-3 and K-3ii for so long with until now no desire to replace either as most of the time the camera is not the limiting factor in what I can do. For astrophotography my cameras abilities are actually somewhat limiting now as I am starting to hit the limits of what can be done with a given amount of exposure. Hence why the feature is what has tipped the scales for me to seriously consider getting one now.

Glass wise I think all I own all full frame glass so going between a K-1 or a K-3iii won't make a difference there other than the field of view and speed at a given field of view.

**kwb** · 12-11-2021, 02:49 PM

One reason why you might wait at least for a few months (as opposed to right now) might be that the availability of beta firmware for K-3III is limited to Ricoh Imaging Photo ID members, and you need a valid Japanese address to become a member. They said in the user meeting last month that they plan to release it (not beta but the full release) in spring.

**MossyRocks** · 12-11-2021, 03:32 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by kwb

One reason why you might wait at least for a few months (as opposed to right now) might be that the availability of beta firmware for K-3III is limited to Ricoh Imaging Photo ID members, and you need a valid Japanese address to become a member. They said in the user meeting last month that they plan to release it (not beta but the full release) in spring.

Well it is a bit late as I ordered one. However I can still stick the O-GPS1 on it and still get the benefit of lower noise and better dynamic range over the K-3 and K-3ii at similar ISOs. Besides it isn't like I won't use it or my other cameras.

**NZ_Ross** · 12-11-2021, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by MossyRocks

Well it is a bit late as I ordered one. However I can still stick the O-GPS1 on it and still get the benefit of lower noise and better dynamic range over the K-3 and K-3ii at similar ISOs. Besides it isn't like I won't use it or my other cameras.

I am sure you will really enjoy what the K-3 III brings

**kwb** · 12-11-2021, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by MossyRocks

Well it is a bit late as I ordered one. However I can still stick the O-GPS1 on it and still get the benefit of lower noise and better dynamic range over the K-3 and K-3ii at similar ISOs. Besides it isn't like I won't use it or my other cameras.

Congrats, you'll enjoy the camera!

Paul the Sunman · 12-11-2021, 05:33 PM

Many pundits are even predicting that it may be the very last DSLR. I don't believe it, but if true that would make it a collectors item some years into the future.

tokyoscape · 12-11-2021, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by MossyRocks

Well it is a bit late as I ordered one.

It would be nice if later you could give us some reviews on the night image quality of the new camera.
I am doing night photo too but more of the night urban landscape and night street. A lot of time handheld in a really dark street. The use cases will be difference than you, but demand on the low light image quality would be a kind of the same. It's all about how much I can squeeze out from the sensor without having too much noise or strange artificial color show up in the shadow parts.
Hope you enjoy shooting with the new camera.

JPT · 12-11-2021, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by tokyoscape

It would be nice if later you could give us some reviews on the night image quality of the new camera.
I am doing night photo too but more of the night urban landscape and night street. A lot of time handheld in a really dark street. The use cases will be difference than you, but demand on the low light image quality would be a kind of the same. It's all about how much I can squeeze out from the sensor without having too much noise or strange artificial color show up in the shadow parts.
Hope you enjoy shooting with the new camera.

I know this is the manufacturer's own marketing, but Ricoh seems to be illustrating that the camera will g up to high ISO without weird colour shifts on this page.

??? / PENTAX K-3 Mark III / ?? | RICOH IMAGING

**MossyRocks** · 12-11-2021, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by tokyoscape

It would be nice if later you could give us some reviews on the night image quality of the new camera.

I do plan on reviewing the camera for the more extreme use cases like astro. I do the same for most lenses I own as well because it is an area that I can talk to and provide a good review the provides unique information for others.

Originally posted by tokyoscape

It's all about how much I can squeeze out from the sensor without having too much noise or strange artificial color show up in the shadow parts.

Even with an older sensor like the one in the K-3 I find shooting raw and playing around in the Raw tab of RawTherapee can produce some pretty good results. Toss in some working some of the noise reduction and contrast by levels options in the details tab and one can really put a surprising amount out of high ISO shots. Still at ISO 51200 the K-3 doesn't produce great images but you get a recognizable image.

**DonV** · 12-12-2021, 11:47 AM

My son convinced me to buy 1/2 of a K3iii; but I don't use it- I much prefer my KP. So much so I now have 3 KP bodies- just in case!

If I'm not using the OVF, then I want a flexible screen for LV. JMHO, and your use is quite likely different!

texandrews · 12-12-2021, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by MossyRocks

Well it is a bit late as I ordered one. However I can still stick the O-GPS1 on it and still get the benefit of lower noise and better dynamic range over the K-3 and K-3ii at similar ISOs. Besides it isn't like I won't use it or my other cameras.

Congrats to you, and FWIW I think you made a solid decision.

12-11-2021, 06:29 AM	#20
MossyRocks Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,982 Original Poster	Originally posted by biz-engineer I'll give you my reason for not getting the K3-3: images taken with good technique I see from the K3-3 amaze me That is why I have kept on using the K-3 and K-3ii for so long with until now no desire to replace either as most of the time the camera is not the limiting factor in what I can do. For astrophotography my cameras abilities are actually somewhat limiting now as I am starting to hit the limits of what can be done with a given amount of exposure. Hence why the feature is what has tipped the scales for me to seriously consider getting one now. Glass wise I think all I own all full frame glass so going between a K-1 or a K-3iii won't make a difference there other than the field of view and speed at a given field of view. Last edited by MossyRocks; 12-11-2021 at 03:33 PM.

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12-10-2021, 07:39 PM	#16
MossyRocks Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,982 Original Poster	Originally posted by tokyoscape Just wonder, why not a K1? When I first made the jump to digital my plan was to be happy with the K2000 for a while until I saved up enough to get the K-1. Then I found a good deal on a lightly used K-3 bought that, really got into astrophotography specifically deep sky objects. As time progressed and I started really understanding how to maximize things I realized that there is a tradeoff in going to full frame and going after deep sky objects. The problem is that while the K-1 and later K-1ii have lower noise it isn't a full stops worth lower noise and are also not a pixel dense. So to get the same framing on full frame I would have to jump up in focal length 1.5x from what I run with my K-3. However I have the SMC A* 400/2.8 ED [IF] as my primary astro lens which means on a K-1 I would need a 600mm f/4 which if the lenses performed exactly the same and there was a 1 stop difference in noise between the K-1 and K-3 it would end up a wash. Unfortunatly the K-3 is not a stop worse for noise and the 600/4 lenses probably need to be stopped down more than the 1/2 stop the A* 400/2.8 does (yes I run the 400/2.8 at f/3.5 for astro). Now the K-3iii actually does even better noise wise than even the K-1 making it a much better choice. Now if I did lots of ultra wide astro shooting where lenses get slower the wider you go the analysis favors full frame cameras. Why run a 12mm f/2.8 when you can run an 18mm f/2 and capture a stop more light through the lens and have a sensor that provides almost a stop less noise (K-1 vs K-3). For my regular daytime shooting or even non astro night shooting it wouldn't make a difference if I used a K-1ii or the K-3iii since I have such a huge selection of lenses (12mm up to 400mm) i've acquired over the years so being able to get enough reach or go wide enough isn't a problem.

12-10-2021, 08:14 PM	#17
tokyoscape Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,256	Originally posted by MossyRocks When I first made the jump to digital my plan was to be happy with the K2000 for a while until I saved up enough to get the K-1. Then I found a good deal on a lightly used K-3 bought that, really got into astrophotography specifically deep sky objects. As time progressed and I started really understanding how to maximize things I realized that there is a tradeoff in going to full frame and going after deep sky objects. The problem is that while the K-1 and later K-1ii have lower noise it isn't a full stops worth lower noise and are also not a pixel dense. So to get the same framing on full frame I would have to jump up in focal length 1.5x from what I run with my K-3. However I have the SMC A* 400/2.8 ED [IF] as my primary astro lens which means on a K-1 I would need a 600mm f/4 which if the lenses performed exactly the same and there was a 1 stop difference in noise between the K-1 and K-3 it would end up a wash. Unfortunatly the K-3 is not a stop worse for noise and the 600/4 lenses probably need to be stopped down more than the 1/2 stop the A* 400/2.8 does (yes I run the 400/2.8 at f/3.5 for astro). Now the K-3iii actually does even better noise wise than even the K-1 making it a much better choice. Now if I did lots of ultra wide astro shooting where lenses get slower the wider you go the analysis favors full frame cameras. Why run a 12mm f/2.8 when you can run an 18mm f/2 and capture a stop more light through the lens and have a sensor that provides almost a stop less noise (K-1 vs K-3). For my regular daytime shooting or even non astro night shooting it wouldn't make a difference if I used a K-1ii or the K-3iii since I have such a huge selection of lenses (12mm up to 400mm) i've acquired over the years so being able to get enough reach or go wide enough isn't a problem. That's make sense. It seems like you have all the good reasons to get yourself a K3III. Why wait!

12-10-2021, 10:57 PM	#18
NZ_Ross Kiwi Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Timaru Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,225	The K-3 III compared to my previous K-3 (original) is night and day - faster, massive ISO range, massive sensor improvements, much lower noise due to the sensor improvements and a huge improvement for the AF. I sold my K-3, as there wasn't much point keeping it after the K-3 III purchase. What can I say, you won't be disappointed.

12-10-2021, 11:38 PM	#19
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,238	Originally posted by MossyRocks Looking for a reason to not get the K-3 Mk3, or more reasons to get it I'll give you my reason for not getting the K3-3: images taken with good technique I see from the K3-3 amaze me, but to fund the Pentax K1 I sold ALL my apsc lenses, so now if I'd go back to apsc it would be costly, on top of the price of the K3-3 itself expensive. If you have apsc lenses and the money for a K3-3, it's hard to find a reason not to go for a K3-3. I wished Ricoh will offer the new astro tracer method via firmware updates. Not that the GPS isn't good, but software based tracking may be more accurate and doesn't require to have an antenna over the prism and a plastic base for the flash hotshoe.

12-11-2021, 02:49 PM	#21
kwb Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Pacific North West Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,224	One reason why you might wait at least for a few months (as opposed to right now) might be that the availability of beta firmware for K-3III is limited to Ricoh Imaging Photo ID members, and you need a valid Japanese address to become a member. They said in the user meeting last month that they plan to release it (not beta but the full release) in spring.

12-11-2021, 03:32 PM - 3 Likes	#22
MossyRocks Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,982 Original Poster	Originally posted by kwb One reason why you might wait at least for a few months (as opposed to right now) might be that the availability of beta firmware for K-3III is limited to Ricoh Imaging Photo ID members, and you need a valid Japanese address to become a member. They said in the user meeting last month that they plan to release it (not beta but the full release) in spring. Well it is a bit late as I ordered one. However I can still stick the O-GPS1 on it and still get the benefit of lower noise and better dynamic range over the K-3 and K-3ii at similar ISOs. Besides it isn't like I won't use it or my other cameras.

12-11-2021, 04:29 PM	#23
NZ_Ross Kiwi Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Timaru Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,225	Originally posted by MossyRocks Well it is a bit late as I ordered one. However I can still stick the O-GPS1 on it and still get the benefit of lower noise and better dynamic range over the K-3 and K-3ii at similar ISOs. Besides it isn't like I won't use it or my other cameras. I am sure you will really enjoy what the K-3 III brings

12-11-2021, 05:08 PM	#24
kwb Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Pacific North West Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,224	Originally posted by MossyRocks Well it is a bit late as I ordered one. However I can still stick the O-GPS1 on it and still get the benefit of lower noise and better dynamic range over the K-3 and K-3ii at similar ISOs. Besides it isn't like I won't use it or my other cameras. Congrats, you'll enjoy the camera!

12-11-2021, 05:33 PM	#25
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	Many pundits are even predicting that it may be the very last DSLR. I don't believe it, but if true that would make it a collectors item some years into the future.

12-11-2021, 05:44 PM	#26
tokyoscape Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,256	Originally posted by MossyRocks Well it is a bit late as I ordered one. It would be nice if later you could give us some reviews on the night image quality of the new camera. I am doing night photo too but more of the night urban landscape and night street. A lot of time handheld in a really dark street. The use cases will be difference than you, but demand on the low light image quality would be a kind of the same. It's all about how much I can squeeze out from the sensor without having too much noise or strange artificial color show up in the shadow parts. Hope you enjoy shooting with the new camera.

12-11-2021, 07:06 PM	#27
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	Originally posted by tokyoscape It would be nice if later you could give us some reviews on the night image quality of the new camera. I am doing night photo too but more of the night urban landscape and night street. A lot of time handheld in a really dark street. The use cases will be difference than you, but demand on the low light image quality would be a kind of the same. It's all about how much I can squeeze out from the sensor without having too much noise or strange artificial color show up in the shadow parts. Hope you enjoy shooting with the new camera. I know this is the manufacturer's own marketing, but Ricoh seems to be illustrating that the camera will g up to high ISO without weird colour shifts on this page. ??? / PENTAX K-3 Mark III / ?? \| RICOH IMAGING

12-11-2021, 07:47 PM	#28
MossyRocks Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,982 Original Poster	Originally posted by tokyoscape It would be nice if later you could give us some reviews on the night image quality of the new camera. I do plan on reviewing the camera for the more extreme use cases like astro. I do the same for most lenses I own as well because it is an area that I can talk to and provide a good review the provides unique information for others. Originally posted by tokyoscape It's all about how much I can squeeze out from the sensor without having too much noise or strange artificial color show up in the shadow parts. Even with an older sensor like the one in the K-3 I find shooting raw and playing around in the Raw tab of RawTherapee can produce some pretty good results. Toss in some working some of the noise reduction and contrast by levels options in the details tab and one can really put a surprising amount out of high ISO shots. Still at ISO 51200 the K-3 doesn't produce great images but you get a recognizable image.

12-12-2021, 11:47 AM	#29
DonV Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Near Charlotte NC Photos: Albums Posts: 693	My son convinced me to buy 1/2 of a K3iii; but I don't use it- I much prefer my KP. So much so I now have 3 KP bodies- just in case! If I'm not using the OVF, then I want a flexible screen for LV. JMHO, and your use is quite likely different!

12-12-2021, 12:10 PM	#30
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,394	Originally posted by MossyRocks Well it is a bit late as I ordered one. However I can still stick the O-GPS1 on it and still get the benefit of lower noise and better dynamic range over the K-3 and K-3ii at similar ISOs. Besides it isn't like I won't use it or my other cameras. Congrats to you, and FWIW I think you made a solid decision.