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12-08-2008, 03:17 AM   #16
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I have both Pentax K10D and K20D. And inded the Pentax K20D is much better performing on low light than the K10D, even when looking at 100% crops.

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Guillaume

12-08-2008, 05:54 AM   #17
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I went from the K10D to the 40D (BIG system switch), and if you're just shooting landscapes, I think a Pentax system would be excellent. The K10D did great at lower ISOs, but fell apart around ISO1000. From what I've seen of the K20D, it has MUCH better high ISO than the K10D.

The 40D (and the 30D would be similar) would have MUCH faster autofocus in lower light (and more frames per second), can't say anything about the high ISO of the 30D, but I'm happy with high ISO (up to 1600) of the 40D. I mainly switched to Canon for the faster autofocus in low light and I'm glad I did, but if you're more into landscapes/scenery, the Pentax SYSTEM (the body/sensor and lenses) are about as good as it gets (although Canon also has some great lenses)
12-08-2008, 09:55 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by sflights Quote
Basically what I'm asking is if you had the choice for either, which one would you choose? I don't want a K20D because of it's noise issues and the 14.6 mp images.

I have a lens for my canon, but it has right side softness, and a nifty fifty, which I also have for pentax.

So again, which would you choose, and why?
Hi,

I had the oportunity to shoot the 30D and the K10 side by side for a few months (Pentax user since 1992).

K10 + DA12-24 + DA*50 135 + FA50f1.4 vs 30D + 50f1.4 + 70-200f4L IS:

K10 has better handling and a wider set of features & customization.
K10 also has a better screen (the 30D is one of the poorest I have seen).

IQ is a toss until ISO 400, with excellent sharpness at base ISO for the K10 but the 30D is no slouch. From ISO 800 on, the 30D is better (less noise and better DR).

AF is better in every way on the 30D, no matter in what kind of light. This ended up significantly impairing the results on my K10 with a much greater number of misfocused shots compared to the 30D.

In that aspect, the K20 represented a significant upgrade (I had it also for a few months) but in the end, Canon's AF is just better at the moment.

AE is also better on the 30D (more consistent) but if you use spot metering, you don't really care.

Then there is the 5fps the 30D offers: not critical for me but it definitely makes the camera "snappier".


Overall, I left the K10 with mixed feelings: very good interface and nice results when properly focused but too many approximations (AF, AE errors, especially in low light or when reflective surfaces are present, slanted VF...).

The K20 seemed more robust in almost every way and it would certainly be my main camera if I hadn't compared it to a 5D...

I don't think the K10 represents the best value from Pentax as of now and would definitely look rather at the K20 which would then be a better choice for landscape photography than the 30D. For other type of photography (especially when action is involved), I would probably still go Canon though).

Hopefully, I managed to confused the matter even more.... sorry for that!!


My dream camera would be K20 with 5D's sensor and AF, compatible with Canon's L zooms and Pentax primes... am I asking too much !!??

OK, maybe I am asking to much... and so I had to prioritize IQ/AF over handling and transform a big collection of Pentax gear into a much smaller collection of Canon gear... but there isn't a day of shooting where I don't miss the K20 ergonomics.
12-08-2008, 11:25 AM   #19
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My thoughts exactly! The K10D/BG2 grip was an ergonomic dream come true. I manage with the 40D (and now Xsi as my backup), but having those two scroll wheels and being able to configure one for Av and one for ISO was awesome!

Although the 40D's "joystick" makes for easy and quick AF-point selection.

QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
My dream camera would be K20 with 5D's sensor and AF, compatible with Canon's L zooms and Pentax primes... am I asking too much !!??

OK, maybe I am asking to much... and so I had to prioritize IQ/AF over handling and transform a big collection of Pentax gear into a much smaller collection of Canon gear... but there isn't a day of shooting where I don't miss the K20 ergonomics.


12-08-2008, 12:15 PM   #20
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Hmm, you guys are making me want a K20D more and more. The reason why I was bought over by the K10D was the 5 review sites that I went to gave it a higher review in terms of quality than the K20D.
12-08-2008, 12:56 PM   #21
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The K20D has better ISO performance, has focus adjustment for lenses, and the sensor renders beautifully with the Pentax primes. The K10D is still one great camera though.

One thing you're gonna LOVE once you switch is that there's IS/shake-reduction on all the lenses, even on the primes!
12-08-2008, 01:00 PM   #22
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QuoteQuote:
Ah, not issues persay, but the fact that the 14.6 megapixel sensor creates more noise in the images compared to the 10 megapixel sensor. I don't need 14 megapixel images anyways, so I figure I might as well stick to the K10D.
Where has this been tabled as being a fact?


I am of the opinion after much reading that the sensor in the K20 has been rated by most to perform better.

Neil
12-08-2008, 01:02 PM   #23
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Ditto on the K20D CMOS being MUCH better than the K10D's CCD. I was never a fan of the K10D at high ISO (although at ISO100-400, it was excellent)

12-08-2008, 01:08 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by nulla Quote
Where has this been tabled as being a fact?


I am of the opinion after much reading that the sensor in the K20 has been rated by most to perform better.

Neil

Smaller pixel patch.
12-08-2008, 01:34 PM   #25
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The pixels are just about the same size aren't they?. They are closer together because of the CMOS sensor design on the K20D minimizes the electronic contacts around each pixel. That means they can fit more same size pixels on the same size sensor.
12-08-2008, 02:06 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shashinki Quote
The pixels are just about the same size aren't they?. They are closer together because of the CMOS sensor design on the K20D minimizes the electronic contacts around each pixel. That means they can fit more same size pixels on the same size sensor.
Since there's a smaller pixel patch, there are more pixels in each part of the sensor, which makes noise more prevalent because of the closeness of each pixel.
12-08-2008, 02:09 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by nulla Quote
Where has this been tabled as being a fact?
I am of the opinion after much reading that the sensor in the K20 has been rated by most to perform better.
Here ya go:
Pentax K20D on DPreview - FM Forums

it's excessive chroma noise that causes a quick drop in dynamic range.
I suspect this noise is also what makes the K20D "filmlike" though.
12-08-2008, 02:13 PM   #28
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First off, I'd like to apologize for having two threads in here with the same thing in each. If a moderator would like to lock one and delete it, that's perfectly fine, I should have kept it to a single thread.

Secondly, when I look at the RAW (what I use) examples from the 30D and the K10D, the K10D actually looks better. The details in the RAW images are amazing, and that's what I'm looking for.

Canon can't meter M42 lenses that I'm aware of, unlike the ability to use the green button on Pentax. (could someone clear that up for me)?

The 30D has a terrible LCD, it only has one coating and it washes out incredibly easy.

Canon's controls on the 30D are annoying...how there's two different wheels to adjust settings, you sometimes forget what you're changing which can lead to you having a perfect image, only at ISO 1600.

Also, the ISO doesn't show up in the viewfinder of the 30D, I'd have to get a 40D ($200 more) for that one ability.

Weather sealing on the Pentax is a huge plus for me.

There's a lot of reasons why I want to switch to Pentax, but I'm finding it hard to find reasons to stay with Canon, other than the metal body of the XXD series (which doesn't really matter to me, I'm fairly careful with my camera).
12-08-2008, 02:16 PM   #29
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Like I said, as long as you're aware of the caveats of the Pentax system (which I've mentioned somewhere today....), Pentax is more than capable of producing great images, they have GREAT lenses available (all of which would be stabilized....) If you decided you can live with those "issues", go for it! I decided I couldn't so I switched....My IQ more or less stayed the same (except for the high ISO being better on the 40D), the faster AF just made it easier for me get the shots (for fast paced events/weddings/etc....)
12-08-2008, 02:18 PM   #30
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How useful is AF at night (bridge photos) on the Pentax? Is it so useless that I wouldn't be able to use AF whatsoever?
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